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Ganguly Back.. yeeee:P (Page 4)

kabhi_21 IF-Rockerz

Joined: 25 January 2006
Posts: 9909

Posted: 22 March 2007 at 9:16am | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by kabhi_21

I believe that Rahul is a better player and Ganguly is the better captain Big smile

doesn't seem like that for one-dayers.Smile

Anyways I am so happy because of huge win of Srilanka over Bangladesh yesterday.... It gave a great scope to India.... because even if India wins with lower margins by making score above 275..... it has more than 85% chances of advancing to the Super 8 based on runrate..... then only miracles can get Bangladesh the run rate as much as India Big smile

as for captaincy aspects, i think it's more important for the guy to be able to motivate 10 other players than play for selfish stats on a personal level. we dont necessarily want our CEOs to be a software techie. nor do we want our PMs to have all those chaprasi skills themselvesWink. They should be great leaders, period. whether that leadership comes from personal example or motivational skills, results show up ultimately. and we had those results with ganguly.

btw, i am no fan of ganguly. but after dravid, i think i'd be a fan of anyoneLOL

I agree........ ganguly took so many blames for other of his boys..... he never let the pressure come on his boys..... thts why he was perished..... but still he did not blame any of other boys not even dravid...... he came back with his own determination...... and proving himself....... so this is really applaudableClap

chatbuster IF-Rockerz

Deactivated on request
Joined: 13 January 2006
Posts: 7780

Posted: 22 March 2007 at 10:35am | IP Logged
Originally posted by sunp

Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by sunp

Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by sunp

Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by souro

I like all three of them (Ganguly, Dravid & Tendulkar). I don't know what exactly you wanted to convey with the stats but how does it hurt to be the most successful batsman against the minnows, you still need to win the match and you need someone to score the runs. If Dravid and Tendulkar could have done that maybe it wouldn't have costed us the match against Bangladesh. Moreover Ganguly has scored more runs in less innings and about the average that's there you did not give the no. of times Dravid remained Not Out.

but wat has master blaster done for us lately? like in the last 5 years? or is that 10 years now?LOL

master blasterLOL. all we have are the bowlers blasting his wicketsLOL

is it that "what have you done for me lately" syndrome?

forget 2003 worldcup when Sachin Carried us thru to the final and one match he did not score, we lost the WCLOL, it is a oh sachin is out and we have Mcgrath to face, let us commit harakiri, Dada ka to sawal hi nahi, he tells them to warm up the tea, and by the time it is warmed up, he is backLOL

Leading by example, isnt that one of the qualities of leadershipLOL

yaar, it's been obvious even to the dummy commentators over the years that sachin has hardly played a match-winning innings. while others have. so india wins inspite of him. might as well not carry his baggage aroundWink

as for leadership traits, sorry you dont get it.Wink those have to include finding good personnel, training them, motivating them, creating a winning combination etc. Ganguly brought up sehwag, laxman, yuvraj, kaif, harbhajan, dhoni etc. He also got the team to shake off all its losing ways. dravid? gone back to old losing habits.Wink Tendulkar? couldn't handle the pressure.LOL

Perhaps you are misunderstanding the argument I have here

oh my apologies in that caseSmile

Sachin is not a better captain, hasnt claimed to be, and does not even want captainship, even if he wants he is not getting it, the chain of command is Dravid--> Sehwag --> whoever younger

that is the chain and we all know it. question is if that should have been the chain of command in the first place

Well, the choice was a captain who was non-performing, or look for a change, the current situation was found to be unaccetable, so they went the Dravid route, but if you look at Ganguly, his performance off late has been good(maybe lesser responsibility is helping himWink, just like Sachin)

and especially dravidWink Not only has his personal performances sucked but also the results he has delivered as captainWink All-round badWink

Sourav was a good captain in his days, he is not the captain, nor should people ask for him to be made a captain, this goes back to the whole era of flipflopping captainships depending on one bad series/one bad season

that's a valid point. and i agree wit that

Dravid is the current captain, he has an off year as a batsman, it needs to be evaluated if his batting is getting impacted, if yes, they need to start building up a new leader, That is why Sehwag is still retained despite his poor form this season, If not him it will be someone younger who will be groomed, but will not be Ganguly, if him it might please some, but on the longer run hurts Indian cricket more than anything.

As a Batsman, Sachin has proved he is the best ODI player on this team on the longer run, This and past year he has been in and out of form due to his injuries, but he has a steady number of good innings, His Strike rate is in the upper echeleon in ODI for players who have played more than 100 ODI's, he has a better strike rate, average,

my hypothesis is that his stats are bloated by his early years. have hardly seen him play well the last 5-10 years. cant just rest on past laurels and not contribute in terms of match-winning innings

I think you have been using a wrong filter on information, most people look at matches that we loose, and see if Sachin did not perform and make that conclusion, they dont apply the reverse filter, morever nobody on this team has gone thru a change in batting style requirement

haha, cant use the average filter. average mostly gets you nowhere.Wink In any case, team wins without sachin performing. team seldom wins when he is. team also loses when he is not performing. draw your conclusions from that. maybe we need someone who is more in sync with the team's requirements?Wink

Dravid had to take up additional responsibilty as a keeper, or a skipper, but not to his bread and butter batting style

yes, to his slow selfish batting waysWink

Ganguly same case

Sachin has to mould his game everytime depending on who is in form, Sehwag in form, temper it down a bit, Sehwag out of form, Dravid in form, play uptempo, Ganguly in form, play uptempo, keep the running between the wickets smooth, etc, But even then he has averaged more good innings than bad ones, He is not a ball hog in failure or success, but again if you are only looking for someone's failure, you will find a lot of it, it is a game after all, success and failure are a part of it

yes, i've seen tendulkar do that. but more in the past. he's not at the crease long enough the past several years to do much of that anymore nowWink

practically everything than Dravid and Ganguly, His performance does not dip or increase if it is a smaller cricket playing country or the World champs. He can play the role of an anchor or a striker depending upon need(look at last match against Bermuda) or as a anchor a role that has been thrust upon him when Ganguly went into a 3-4 year slump and Sehwag was playing good.. He is a five tool player, Occassional Strike bowler, above average fielder, etc, Even if one thing is not clicking in a match, he can compensate with the others.

Ganguly was a good player in his era, however in the later part all he did was play against the minnows and collect his paycheck against the big teams, perhaps that is the reason India got the tag of chokers. Ganguly seems to be in form this season, he has had a good SA series, however what Indian team is hoping for is, he carry us till we get Dravid/Tendulkar/Sehwag back on track, But captainship no way

issue was leadership and on that score ganguly proved better than dravid. caveat of course is "thus far". i am also not talking about strategic longer-term interests since that would take us way off-track.Smile

Right and again you seem to be disagreeing with your own point, we have to maintain steady, Dravid came into it good as a captain, off late batting has taken a hit, we need to observe it over a longer term, not go flip floping captains every bad series/season

haha, no i am not. show me where i said that dravid was the better longer-term strategic choice. he's even worse as a longer-term guy.Tongue i just wanted to refrain from that off-topic discussion.

as for dravid, not only has his batting taken a hit. so has the team under him. started at the top of the ladder and climbed the way downWink

He contribution lead us to win in one match, loss in another, let us hope he is able to keep us afloat till the others start contributing(like Sachin did in 2003 as "another" player)

yes, like starting tomorrow.Smile again, i am no fan of ganguly but i learned to like him recently for his grit, hard work and determination, qualities a good captain should have.

grit, hard work, determination are basic requirements of a sportsman, showing up at the right time, leading by example is a trait of a good leader, or else it is an example how to be a chokerWink

oh, you'd want those very same qualities, and more of them, in a leader. also i rather our team was a choker coming in at #2 than be a total loser and the butt of minnow jokes.Wink

for some of the qualities one does need in a leader, go to my earlier posts. too bad but you might have missed out on some of my chaprasi and techie chutkalasWink

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