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Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 (Page 28)

CaptainSpark IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 24 May 2015 at 9:11am | IP Logged
Originally posted by amritat



This is y Tagore is Tagore...
How brilliantly, he had brought out Karna's pain...n even Kunti's...

Although, if I am not wrong, Kunti's intentions were not completely pure, I love this narration n the way Tagore brought out the emotions...
 
Why Amrita do you think that about Kunti? Cry 
Sorry but I just CANNOT stop myself from defending my favourite...Cry But that does not mean your point is totally invalid... Smile


Edited by CaptainSpark - 24 May 2015 at 9:11am

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amritat

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Posted: 24 May 2015 at 9:23am | IP Logged

Amrita

Not quoting your incredibly long postLOL Definitely Karna is the most popular character of Mahabharat even outside Bengal.. But it is true..atleast from my experience, that Bengalis see Karna is another light.. they workship him more than others.. in general.. And I feel Kashidashi Mahabharata, Karna Kunti Sangbad, Pother Panchali's Karna scene are highly responsible for this.. I am not blaming the authors for their creative liberty.. Ofcourse they can write. Infact they have given us some of the best literary pieces... Its not anyones fault but I feel Bengalis are a bigger lover of tragedy as a whole and also tears (Have you seen Bengali serials?LOL).. The whole world are lovers of tragedy.. Hamlet and Macbeth are anyday more popular than Merchant of Venice or Comedy of Errors.. But I still feel Bengalis are a bit more inclined.. you don't have to think the same..
As far Madhusudan Dutta is concerned, I agree with every word you said about him being one of best poets Bengal and the whole of world has seen... I am again not blaming him.. But his Meghnath vadh Kavya is highly a great example of workshipping villians.. I DONT MEAN TO DEMEAN HIM. It is a classic poem...BUT...the point remains.. these poems provoke workshipping of villians as a whole.. Thinking that villians the ones we knew as bad were not actually bad..this idea..

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Maverick_meDharmaPriyaaamritat

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Posted: 24 May 2015 at 11:26am | IP Logged
Brishti, I am in no mood to edit that. And I am no Bengali. I love & respect Veda Vyasa than Tagore. I cannot change that. The problem with that poem is though one feels bad for both Kunti & Karna while reading, long after he read it, it is certainly Karna who stays back in memories because we all have faced rejection at one or another point of life & most have faced problems with parents at least once. So it is easy to conncet with Karna. But how many mothers had to face abandoning their kid? Until one is a mother, it is hard to understand how horrible is that. So most ppl will fail to know Kunti. And Kunti is my fav character in entire MB, more fav than Karna. So I dont care what others think. I do respect opinions of all people, even if that is against my opinion. If one can't understand that, that is not my problem.Smile
In case of Karna-Arjuna, I like them both. Arjuna I like from childhood & Karna after I began reading KMG. So I don't wanna see one in bad light for another. As per me, whether Karna was good or jealous or wicked or not any of those has nothing to do with Arjuna & vice versa. You may have a diff opinion & I respect that. Here is the citation you asked. It is from Shanti Parva. If Karna was Drona's student, he was not much aged to be not corrected by a guru. And the reason Karna was told for denying knowledge is not the reason we read just before that. So that means Drona knew who Karna was & still he denied. Drona's problem was not Karna's caste or skill, but only Arjuna.
Karna one day approached Drona in private and said these words unto him, 'I desire to be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, with all its mantras and the power of withdrawing it, for I desire to fight Arjuna. Without doubt, the affection thou bearest to every one of thy pupils is equal to what thou bearest to thy own son. I pray that all the masters of the science of weapons may, through thy grace, regard me as one accomplished in weapons!' Thus addressed by him, Drona, from partiality for Phalguna, as also from his knowledge of the wickedness of Karna, said, 'None but a Brahmana, who has duly observed all vows, should be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, or a Kshatriya that has practised austere penances, and no other.'

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amritat

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Posted: 24 May 2015 at 11:32pm | IP Logged
I feel the problem with Karna and Kunti is that while people look at Karna from Kaliyug perspective, they don't extend the same courtesy to Kunti
Karna was abandoned at birth by his birth mother...we keep blaming Kunti for that because being unwed mother is not such a big deal now..women are independent enough and more than that society is tolerant enough to accept them. Kunti did not have the option of keeping him 

She actually did a favor to Karna by leaving him in water. he got adopted by decent parents and got a chance at life. If Kunti had not abandoned him it would have been either death or life worse than death for both of them 

and the fact that vyasa mentions Surya as the father who is a God revered by Hindus completely obliterated the fact that...Kunti was 12-13 year old child, who did not have the maturity or perspective to understand implication of her actions

If the same thing happened today, by an ordinary mortal...it would have been rape and Karna would have been a rape child. And the only one who would get blamed for Karna's plight would be his father. 
And actually praise Kunti for giving birth to the child and letting it go so that it adopted in a loving family.

As far as revealing the truth only before war..why not..except a couple of insults what was wrong in Karna's life for Kunti to jeopardize her other children's future for him..except Draupadi and brahmastra what else was missing in his life, for Kunti to state the truth and ruin Pandavas lives

When war became inevitable she did what any good mother would do, try to ensure her sons victory, she asked Karna to join Pandavs so that all six of them can win. and if that was not possible atleast safeguard their lives..if not all of them atleast as many as possible.. Why she didn't tell pandavs..if she told them Pandavas wouldn't fight.btheqn duryodhan and the whole world will know. Would duryodhan be nice to pandavs when if he came to know the truth. Hell would he be nice to Karna if he came to know the truth

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mahalaxmi-sitaamritatCaptainSpark

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Posted: 25 May 2015 at 2:32am | IP Logged
Originally posted by CaptainSpark

Amrita


Not quoting your incredibly long postLOLDefinitely Karna is the most popular character of Mahabharat even outside Bengal.. But it is true..atleast from my experience, that Bengalis see Karna is another light.. they workship him more than others.. in general.. And I feel Kashidashi Mahabharata, Karna Kunti Sangbad, Pother Panchali's Karna scene are highly responsible for this.. I am not blaming the authors for their creative liberty.. Ofcourse they can write. Infact they have given us some of the best literary pieces... Its not anyones fault but I feel Bengalis are a bigger lover of tragedy as a whole and also tears (Have you seen Bengali serials?LOL).. The whole world are lovers of tragedy.. Hamlet and Macbeth are anyday more popular than Merchant of Venice or Comedy of Errors.. But I still feel Bengalis are a bit more inclined.. you don't have to think the same..

As far Madhusudan Dutta is concerned, I agree with every word you said about him being one of best poets Bengal and the whole of world has seen... I am again not blaming him.. But his Meghnath vadh Kavya is highly a great example of workshipping villians.. I DONT MEAN TO DEMEAN HIM. It is a classic poem...BUT...the point remains.. these poems provoke workshipping of villians as a whole.. Thinking that villians the ones we knew as bad were not actually bad..this idea..


LOL
I actually tend to write long long posts...Brevity is something I am yet to learn...

As for Bengalis...I agree completely...Bengalis are the biggest worshippers of Karna...
Best examples of that are in this forum only...
Even KMG is often called a Karna fan n he was a Bengali... LOL

But I have also seen the same fandom in South...Someone once told me that in South India, SEVENTEEN movies in total have been made on Karna... LOL Dont know how true that is!!
But I can well imagine how Draupadi was portrayed in them... Wink

Anyway, this is something we cannot change...
I guess because Banga is a part of Anga...n maybe that's y, there is so much of Karna worship here...
But then that should make most Punjabis fans of Panchali too...not sure wat is her status in Punjab... LOL

I agree that Michael Madhusudan Dutta was the pioneer of the Inversion Theory...
But I dont mind that unless the facts are distorted...
If someone says Duryodhan was a better warrior than Bhima...then I dont mind that...because he was.
But if someone says he asked Draupadi to sit on his thighs because he felt sorry that she was standing n yelling for so long n needed a place to sit n rest... Dead then... Dead
I actually do not consider any of them as villains anymore, except Dushasen...so Inversion Theory is fine,as long as there is logic n integrity in the portayal n no intensional whitewashing of the villains...

And y do I think so about Kunti?
Well...I once read a citation...a conversation between Kunti n Lord Krishna where Kunti clearly states her motives for visiting Karna...Please check that once...I am very bad at providing citations...
She clearly states wat she want...so I cant help but feel that her intentions werent pure... Cry

And y do I think, that Draupadi's sharing was intentional?
For that u have to read all the sections before Draupadi's Swamvar thoroughly...Like u said, not everything can be proved with just citations...we need to read between the lines...Read all the sections from there n carefully observe Kunti's reactions, silence n even actions...U will realize y I think that way...

Believe me, apart from these two things, I actually like Kunti...n I HATE Kunti bashers...
Only a woman in her place would know how she felt when she had to abandon Karna... Cry
amritat IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 25 May 2015 at 2:55am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Brahmaputra

Brishti, I am in no mood to edit that. And I am no Bengali. I love & respect Veda Vyasa than Tagore. I cannot change that. The problem with that poem is though one feels bad for both Kunti & Karna while reading, long after he read it, it is certainly Karna who stays back in memories because we all have faced rejection at one or another point of life & most have faced problems with parents at least once. So it is easy to conncet with Karna. But how many mothers had to face abandoning their kid? Until one is a mother, it is hard to understand how horrible is that. So most ppl will fail to know Kunti. And Kunti is my fav character in entire MB, more fav than Karna. So I dont care what others think. I do respect opinions of all people, even if that is against my opinion. If one can't understand that, that is not my problem.Smile


Agreed completely...
In defence of Tagore, I would say that he had actually made Kunti appear more maternal than she was to Karna...
But somehow, after reading the poem, we sympathize with the abandoned child n not the mother who must have had a tough time all this while...
I seriously dont understand...y do people consider Kunti 'coward, selfish,' n so many other things?
Yes she was shrewd...but her shrewdness came because of the life she led...
I love the heart-wrenching conversation between Kunti and Lord Krishna where, for the first time, she says how her life had been...

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CaptainSparkBrahmaputra

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Posted: 25 May 2015 at 2:55am | IP Logged
@amrita
being a punjabi myself as far as my experience goes...punjabis are more into ramayan than MB.
draupadi is respected atleast in the older generation in punjabLOL
i know many women of my grandmom's age who are named draupadi, even non hindus  would name their daughter after her in punjab.. one being our close relative herself.


Edited by indianprincess - 25 May 2015 at 2:56am
amritat IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 25 May 2015 at 3:55am | IP Logged
Originally posted by indianprincess

@amrita
being a punjabi myself as far as my experience goes...punjabis are more into ramayan than MB.
draupadi is respected atleast in the older generationin punjabLOL
i know many women of my grandmom's age who are named draupadi, even non hindus would name their daughter after her in punjab.. one being our close relative herself.



Then that is great news... Big smile
Even I have a friend named Yajnaseni...but that is rare in Bengal...
I guess Bengal houses both haters n lovers of Draupadi... LOL I have seen some of the worst haters of Draupadi to be Bengalis...n some of the biggest fans as well...

As for Karna, many Punjabis are named Karan...
And it's ironic that in Bengal, most people worship Karna but I have rarely come across a man whose named after Karna...
But I know a lot of Bengalis who are named Sabyasachi, Arjun, Parth,etc...

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