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Are cricket chucking laws unfair to bowlers?

9tanki IF-Rockerz

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Posted: 07 May 2015 at 11:27am | IP Logged
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.Vrish.

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Posted: 07 May 2015 at 11:33am | IP Logged
Originally posted by 9tanki

I don't know much about cricket but I feel its unfair to penalize bowler like Narine or Hafeez  for bowling action. If batsman can play reverse sweep, or all kind of crazy sweep, I heard they call it improvisation, so why can't bowler improvise ?  

Bowling action makes a big difference. Narine, Ajmal etc have been successful for so long because of it. 

If you allow such things, ball tampering would also need to be allowed. That would turn this into a bowler's game within a decade and then batsman will request stronger bats and shorter boundaries.

There have been many great bowlers who have achieved great heights without any additional help (Warne, Kumble, Swann etc).

This is cricket, not baseball. There are better ways to balance batting and bowling such as standardizing pitches and bat size. 


Edited by HippoSucks - 07 May 2015 at 11:32am

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9tanki

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.Vrish. Viewbie
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Posted: 07 May 2015 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
Also, in bowling, you're not allowed to bend your arm at any stage.  None of the spinners - Narine, Ajmal, Murlidharan, Ojha - did that.  Yet they are targeted.

Real fact is that cricket is run by retired batting wusses.  If ATGs like Malcolm Marshall, Michael Holding, Joel Garner, Dennis Lillee, Jeff Thomson, Fred Truman et al had to play by today's wussified rules, there's no way they could have won games for their sides.  Only 1 waist high delivery per over?  Despite the fact that today's batsmen know how to use the pace of a delivery against the bowler by simply directing it at well identified gaps?  No beamers?  So the one that Michael Holding once bowled against Tony Greig would have been no-balled!

And think of this simple rule, from original cricket.  Before a delivery or over, the umpire has to tell a batsman whether the bowler is bowling left arm or right arm, over or around the wicket.  But for things like the reverse sweep or the back flip, batsman doesn't have to do squat to inform the bowler of his intentions!!!  That's cheating - albeit w/ the connivance of the laws.  After all, the bowler who bowls to a right hand batsman would have bowled a different way had it been a left handed batsman, and the batsman who reverse sweeps is essentially becoming a opposite handed batsman on the fly - something that the bowler ain't allowed to do.  A bowler can't run up to the wicket w/ the ball in his left hand, and at the last moment, transfer it to his right hand and then deliver it.  Yet the batsmen do exactly the equivalent of that.

Until batsmen are disciplined, nobody has any moral rights to call either pace bowlers or spin bowlers as cheats, since the advantages are taken from both sides


Edited by .Vrish. - 08 May 2015 at 11:29pm

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MidnightRambler9tanki

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Posted: 07 May 2015 at 9:44pm | IP Logged
Completely Agree with everything except the first line. First line IMHO is being bitter about chucking because a player of your fav team is affected. No way the bowlers you mentioned are legal . The rules have been relaxed to 15 degrees before that even it was even less ,if i remember 7 degrees for spinners and 5 degrees for pacer. And this rule has been from a long time. There have been many great spinners who were never called out for chucking like Warne, Swann, Vettori, Kumble and the old age spinners. You are making the chuckers look like a victim instead they are cheats and using unfair means.  

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9tanki

-Robin- IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 07 May 2015 at 10:43pm | IP Logged
Likes of Bedi openly bash Bhajji, Murali, Ajmal etc for chucking and you are saying they are targeted by retired batsmans LOL

And about reverse sweep batsman is taking risk to play that shot, What kind of risk chuckers taking while bowling with illegal action??

Yes ICC need to think about the size of boundaries, Bat size, New rules ( specially in ODI ) etc. Because its irritatting to see batsmans hitting sixes for fun which should not be the case.

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HippoSucks9tankiBeingBlunt

.Vrish. Viewbie
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Posted: 08 May 2015 at 7:48pm | IP Logged
Moved this aspect of the discussion  to a new thread, where we can discuss it more at length

Originally posted by BeingBlunt

Completely Agree with everything except the first line. First line IMHO is being bitter about chucking because a player of your fav team is affected. No way the bowlers you mentioned are legal . The rules have been relaxed to 15 degrees before that even it was even less ,if i remember 7 degrees for spinners and 5 degrees for pacer. And this rule has been from a long time. There have been many great spinners who were never called out for chucking like Warne, Swann, Vettori, Kumble and the old age spinners. You are making the chuckers look like a victim instead they are cheats and using unfair means.  

  • I have 4 fav teams, not 1.  Yeah, I'm from Kolkata, but that's the only reason I support KKR at all (otherwise, I  too would be a KKR hater like most here LOL).  I'm just  as happy when DD, KXIP and  RR win, and in matches involving them v KKR, I'm almost neutral.  However, when KKR gets good players like Narine, Morne, Botha or Russell, my support for them does go up.  Too bad their Indian players largely suck, w/ the current exception of Umesh
  • I've never approved of actions against Murali or Ojha either: this was way before Narine entered the  scene.  Ajmal, I never cared for one way or the other.
  • The law about  chucking states that the elbow can't be a pivot - only the shoulder joint and wrists can.  The angle b/w the forearm and the triceps have to be constant - regardless of what it is.  If one moves the  forearm wrt the upper arm, that is what would qualify as chucking 


Originally posted by -Robin-

Likes of Bedi openly bash Bhajji, Murali, Ajmal etc for chucking and you are saying they are targeted by retired batsmans LOL

And about reverse sweep batsman is taking risk to play that shot, What kind of risk chuckers taking while bowling with illegal action??

Yes ICC need to think about the size of boundaries, Bat size, New rules ( specially in ODI ) etc. Because its irritatting to see batsmans hitting sixes for fun which should not be the case.


Nope, what I  said was that retired batsmen make the  rules.  Which is why everything  I mentioned in that post about bowlers being penalized but batsmen walking on water is true.  I  never said that retired batsmen are the ones criticizing the  bowlers in question: I just said that they make rules that have since the 90s made life easier for batsmen, and now, are focusing on getting rid of the few effective ways a spinner can unravel a batsman.

What risk is there w/ the reverse sweep, or better yet, the flip hit?  At all times during a match, there is a limit to the number of fielders you can have outside a circle.  (I recall in test matches  during the 80s, when batsmen would be raining 6s, the fielding side would put ALL their fielders on the boundary, and only the keeper and the bowler would be there in the middle.  The batting geniuses of yesteryear have pretty much banned that, so that they can, like proud parents, cheer whenever their successor generation breaks their records like a bull in a china shop.)  Had there been no such limit, I'd agree w/ you that there'd be a risk, since a fielder could be placed at the boundary behind the keeper w/o upsetting the remaining field placements.  But you can't do that when there is a limit of at least  4 people within the circle.

When pace bowlers bowl  beamers and  bouncers, those get banned in the name of safety.   When Trevor Chappell bowled underarm, there was an uproar, even though that delivery was legal, albeit just impossible to hit a 6 off, even though safety wasn't an issue there.  Now, when spinners hold their arms and deviate a few degrees, they are chucking.  Oh, the helpless batsmen - poor babies, who'll protect  them? Shocked


Edited by .Vrish. - 08 May 2015 at 11:26pm
HippoSucks Goldie
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Posted: 09 May 2015 at 9:45am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.


Nope, what I  said was that retired batsmen make the  rules.  Which is why everything  I mentioned in that post about bowlers being penalized but batsmen walking on water is true.  I  never said that retired batsmen are the ones criticizing the  bowlers in question: I just said that they make rules that have since the 90s made life easier for batsmen, and now, are focusing on getting rid of the few effective ways a spinner can unravel a batsman.

What risk is there w/ the reverse sweep, or better yet, the flip hit?  At all times during a match, there is a limit to the number of fielders you can have outside a circle.  (I recall in test matches  during the 80s, when batsmen would be raining 6s, the fielding side would put ALL their fielders on the boundary, and only the keeper and the bowler would be there in the middle.  The batting geniuses of yesteryear have pretty much banned that, so that they can, like proud parents, cheer whenever their successor generation breaks their records like a bull in a china shop.)  Had there been no such limit, I'd agree w/ you that there'd be a risk, since a fielder could be placed at the boundary behind the keeper w/o upsetting the remaining field placements.  But you can't do that when there is a limit of at least  4 people within the circle.

When pace bowlers bowl  beamers and  bouncers, those get banned in the name of safety.   When Trevor Chappell bowled underarm, there was an uproar, even though that delivery was legal, albeit just impossible to hit a 6 off, even though safety wasn't an issue there.  Now, when spinners hold their arms and deviate a few degrees, they are chucking.  Oh, the helpless batsmen - poor babies, who'll protect  them? Shocked


Fielding restrictions and chucking are two entirely separate issues.

And it is pretty difficult to get a run off underarm bowling, much less a six.

Bouncers aren't banned, just regulated. Otherwise you would have Johnson bowling 6 bouncers an over in the last Ashes and Trott would have been dead now, not retired.

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BeingBlunt

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