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The ramblings of a restless mind (Page 7)

Ramsha.. IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:37pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ponymo

Originally posted by Saraa.

Amazing post! 
According to verdict, Salman is sentenced for 5 years but how can that help the victims? How will it help them? I don't think it will benefit them at all! I mean you're putting that guy on jail after 13 years! Trying to prove what? Justice still happens! Then you should also punish those rapists and killers who roam around free. 

Providing the victims with enough money to lead a good life will help more! 
 
If you look at it a bit more objectively, you will see how it will help them.
 
By giving Salman 5 years, it might not help the victims of this case directly, but it will be a warning to those who might drink and drive in the future. It will help prevent many such accidents in the future. It will help the 'future' victims, who will not be victims anymore, thanks to the strict implementation of the punishment.
 
The It's-been-13-years-why-punish-now is such a scary argument. Had he confessed 13 years ago, it would not have dragged for so long in the first place. He chose to fool the law. But at the end he has to pay the price.
@Bold Do you how many drunk and drive accidents happen everyday? So many such cases are closed. Take that Ambani son case for example. He was involved in similar case but what happen? He got away with it! Just punishing salman won't set an example. Powerful people will do what they want to do. Rapist and killers are roaming around free like nothing happen. One example is modi sahab! Sorry to say but this one salman verdict can't restore my fate for india judicial system!

So you're saying they were waiting for his confession from last 13 years? No I don't think so! It was crystal clear from before. They could had punish him. Dragging this for 13 years was ridiculous! Probably now victims don't even care! Most likely they want money so they can be financially secured and lead a good life. Thats what they want the most!
 

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:37pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by IAmLuvBolly

Desigal and Kitkataha, this is becoming a very interesting discussion. You guys are making some very interesting points. I don't drink either so I have no personal perspective here. But I have been at parties with friends who have been aware enough to look at me and say "you'll have to take me home." So not everyone loses that sense of judgment. But even if you make the argument that the person lost their sense of how drunk they were (I think this would fall under sense of judgment, no?) that's no the same as developing amnesia. So then the person should have still remembered that they shouldn't be driving drunk since it's against the law. Know what I mean? Unless a defense attorney argues that their client experienced complete failure of cognitive functioning.

This is starting to sound like something I would see in an episode of Law & Order. Though honestly I imagine that this theory has been at least tried by some defense attorneys. There probably is some kind of precedent for it.


You're right. Which is why alcohol as a defense is rarely successful, unless it is involuntary intoxication. Failure of cognitive functioning or temporary insanity are at times used in cases, but they are only there as mitigating factors. In my opinion, the law (in the States especially) is grey with such offenses and judges have discretion because, like we discussed, these sort of crimes lack the intention required. While in many other crimes, the crime has occurred with an intentional or a knowing element.

I am fine in charging someone with intoxication manslaughter...I do have a different approach on the sentencing portion though. Five years, that too, after 13 years is in my opinion is unfair and unusual. If I were Salman, I would sue the State for its own contributory negligence in delaying the trial. If the Courts were supposedly fooled by the money, power, fame, celeb status, then that is their own contributory negligence which they need to be held accountable for. In fact, why only Salman? Even the victims should sue the State for mental anguish, in the fact that justice was not served to them in a timely manner.


Edited by kitkataha - 06 May 2015 at 10:43pm

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anonymous39 IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:42pm | IP Logged
I haven't read the whole topic so I don't know if someone mentioned this but the victims *were* compensated.  Salman was ordered by the court to pay 19 lakhs to the victims in 2002.  I think that figure was broken down into smaller amounts to be distributed to the various victims and the total was 19 lakh.  Now they are complaining on TV that they want (more) money. 

I know Salman is rich but I actually think this is a reasonable amount as determined by the court. Generally speaking, when accidents like this happen, the people are paid based on how much earning potential they have lost due to death or injury. These were poor people who were living on the streets. Even if they had remained unharmed, they would not have earned more than that through their own work.  An accident should not and cannot be like winning the lottery.

In an ideal system, this case should have been resolved way back when it happened. The justice system should work fast enough that jail terms can be finished when they still have meaning. However, rich people can already game the system by slowing down the process as much as possible by getting great lawyers whose job is to run out the clock. People keep complaining that the court is slow but defense lawyers are also responsible for the slowdown. It's beneficial to them.

I don't think the ability to hand out money should absolve people from their crimes. Then what happens if a poor person causes an accident like this? He goes to jail as compensation but rich people can just pay off blood money. It would create a very unfair system where wealthy people can do whatever they want without regard for the law and just pay up when needed and get away scot free.

The system is already much easier on them because they can hire great lawyers. Allowing them to just pay off people and claim they have reformed would make the world even more unfair for the rest of us.


Edited by anonymous39 - 06 May 2015 at 10:41pm

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desigal90TheRager

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:48pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by anonymous39

I haven't read the whole topic so I don't know if someone mentioned this but the victims *were* compensated.  Salman was ordered by the court to pay 19 lakhs to the victims in 2002.  I think that figure was broken down into smaller amounts to be distributed to the various victims and the total was 19 lakh.  Now they are complaining on TV that they want (more) money. 

I know Salman is rich but I actually think this is a reasonable amount as determined by the court. Generally speaking, when accidents like this happen, the people are paid based on how much earning potential they have lost due to death or injury. These were poor people who were living on the streets. Even if they had remained unharmed, they would not have earned more than that through their own work.  An accident should not and cannot be like winning the lottery.

In an ideal system, this case should have been resolved way back when it happened. The justice system should work fast enough that jail terms can be finished when they still have meaning. However, rich people can already game the system by slowing down the process as much as possible by getting great lawyers whose job is to run out the clock. People keep complaining that the court is slow but defense lawyers are also responsible for the slowdown. It's beneficial to them.

I don't think the ability to hand out money should absolve people from their crimes. Then what happens if a poor person causes an accident like this? He goes to jail as compensation but rich people can just pay off blood money. It would create a very unfair system where wealthy people can do whatever they want without regard for the law and just pay up when needed and get away scot free.

The system is already much easier on them because they can hire great lawyers. Allowing them to just pay off people and claim they have reformed would make the world even more unfair for the rest of us.

Very true! Also arguments like X got away or got a lighter sentence doesnt justify not punishing someone who was caught. Then this person's example will be used by lawyers of another case to let off other criminals. 

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desigal90

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:56pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Saraa.

Originally posted by ponymo

Originally posted by Saraa.

Amazing post! 
According to verdict, Salman is sentenced for 5 years but how can that help the victims? How will it help them? I don't think it will benefit them at all! I mean you're putting that guy on jail after 13 years! Trying to prove what? Justice still happens! Then you should also punish those rapists and killers who roam around free. 

Providing the victims with enough money to lead a good life will help more! 
 
If you look at it a bit more objectively, you will see how it will help them.
 
By giving Salman 5 years, it might not help the victims of this case directly, but it will be a warning to those who might drink and drive in the future. It will help prevent many such accidents in the future. It will help the 'future' victims, who will not be victims anymore, thanks to the strict implementation of the punishment.
 
The It's-been-13-years-why-punish-now is such a scary argument. Had he confessed 13 years ago, it would not have dragged for so long in the first place. He chose to fool the law. But at the end he has to pay the price.
@Bold Do you how many drunk and drive accidents happen everyday? So many such cases are closed. Take that Ambani son case for example. He was involved in similar case but what happen? He got away with it! Just punishing salman won't set an example. Powerful people will do what they want to do. Rapist and killers are roaming around free like nothing happen. One example is modi sahab! Sorry to say but this one salman verdict can't restore my fate for india judicial system!

So you're saying they were waiting for his confession from last 13 years? No I don't think so! It was crystal clear from before. They could had punish him. Dragging this for 13 years was ridiculous! Probably now victims don't even care! Most likely they want money so they can be financially secured and lead a good life. Thats what they want the most!
 


I think I read in a previous post that somebody associated with the victim did in fact say they were glad that justice was served through the conviction.

You are right that rich and powerful will continue to roam freely and shove their crimes under the carpet.. but that's not the way to go now, is it.

In an ideal world, they'd all be thrown into jail.

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AnnaElsa

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 11:00pm | IP Logged
Well honestly  If Salman Khan was even 1% ashamed of his act the victim's family wont be begging for compensation at this time. In all these years Salman kept manipulating the evidences trying to prove he didnt do the crime. He kept on minting billions and those people live in the same dingy conditions. Why didn't Salman himself realize that he needs to pay for their livelihood? If he can donate so much for charity, how come he did not try and rehabilitate those people till now? And suddenly when he is sentenced 5 years of jail he wants to pay for them...wow! Compensation is never a punishment, its an obligation in such a serious crime. It was Salman's first duty to rehabilitate those he caused so much pain and inability. Lets assume he did not do the accident and his driver did but still the accident happened from his car right? So if he is such a great human and wants to repent by compensating then why he didn't do it till now for 13 years? 
And as for the case you told, I think its the fault of the judiciary that it does not treat all cases equally but at the end what is wrong is wrong. So rather than justifying Salman because a same case happened with a localiite and he was left w/o severe punishment isnt it better we say that local peeps too should come up and fight for justice to get the culprit convicted. 



Edited by Malika - 06 May 2015 at 11:00pm

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AnnaElsaIceMaidenYD.AH

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 11:02pm | IP Logged
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anonymous39 IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 11:10pm | IP Logged
^How can Salman pay them when they are witnesses in a criminal case against him? He would be accused of influencing the case.  I'm not sure about Indian laws but it might even be against the law to do that. That would lead to a lot more charges against him.

If the victims feel they are owed more money, the way to get more compensation would be to file a civil suit against Salman. The problem is that with them being so poor, they would not have the means or the knowledge to know how to sue someone and go about hiring lawyers and such. I don't know if there would be someone willing to work pro-bono or what? And I think even that can only really happen once the criminal trial is through and we all know it's not going to end for another 20 years.

Salman will be out of bail and keep appealing for the next 15-20 years. By then, one of the higher courts will free him or he will be already be like 70-80 years old and his lawyers will claim he is too old for jail and ask for a pardon from the government.  Even if he ends up in jail, it will be for 1-2 years with probation for good behavior and dozens of furlough vacations like Sanjay Dutt gets.  

His only real punishment will be that he has to keep appearing in court and have a case hanging on his head. That's about it. If you're wealthy, life is pretty good even if you kill people. 


Edited by anonymous39 - 06 May 2015 at 11:10pm

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