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Draw Muhammad contest Taxas!!! WHY?? (Page 16)

QuietlyLoud IF-Dazzler
QuietlyLoud
QuietlyLoud

Joined: 20 February 2012
Posts: 2619

Posted: 09 June 2015 at 9:26am | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Universe.




But the cartoon drawing contests are attempts at deliberate desensitization, isn't that right? Isn't that the whole reason you brought up this "therapy" in the first place? So why are you talking about "natural process desensitization" now and accusing me that I was researching the wrong area?
And healthy individuals don't have phobias?
I asked for evidence. Instead I get the usual runaround. So tell me, how many times should one repeat this mantra ("systematic desensitization worked for Catholic church") in their head, for it to become "fact"?
OK, since it is a "fact" now (that systematic desensitization worked for Christians of yore), who exactly applied this pressure to change the Christians (Catholic church), what steps did they follow to desensitize Christians (Catholic church) and where is/was this "outside" that you speak of when it came to desensitizing Christians (Catholic church)? 




Deliberate desensitization is when it is used in a therapy-when psychologists use it in an scheduled ,step-wise(someone asked about a three-step process,remember?) manner to cure debilitating fears and addictions.


Desensitization which occurs naturally is neither deliberate nor involuntary.It does not have a predetermined format or a fixed time period.The contribution of many exertions in the desired direction is what forces the change.All those 'provocations' need not be the same.They can differ in form or intensity,provided they are capable of inciting the same response.In this case,it doesn't have to be a contest,but something else they would find equally provocative or questioning the doctrine.Whether such discrete influences can be considered deliberate attempts to desensitize or not,hangs on a thin line.IMO Geller is just showing middle finger to Muslims and doesn't give a damn about making them more liberal.So it is not deliberate attempt as far as her intentions are concerned.Now if someone else hosts it with a realization of its potential,then it is.Deliberate or not,the contributers would influence the process more or less to the same degree.


And yes,people who have specific phobias are not healthy.It is a type of anxiety disorder.


The pressure to reform Roman Catholic Church came from the population which was not the part of Papal administrative circle-Those who suffered at the hands of Pope-heretics,scientists,philosophers,native people,gypsies and list goes on.Those who were not desensitized to violence but suffered the effects of it.These people challenged the papal authority and their right to define Christian doctrine.If it was not for these people and their exertions,the Church would have remained the same.Without these influences, it would never have changed on it own because violence was a survival mechanism to the Church-To gain and retain power,to oppress the challengers,to preach sacraments and to keep people in ignorance.







Edited by QuietlyLoud - 09 June 2015 at 9:28am

Qirat. Senior Member
Qirat.
Qirat.

Joined: 16 August 2009
Posts: 505

Posted: 09 June 2015 at 9:50am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ..FallAndFly..

Originally posted by krystal_watz

FallandFly: You're confusing between "person" and "idea". Humiliating a person (the example you provided about a group of kids making fun of a lone kid) is considered bullying. But parodying or criticising an IDEA (which Islam or any other religion is) is not.
An idea?
What?Our Prophet was A Person and we look up to him,follow his paths and you Criticising him is criticising our ways of life, Calling our Faith and ideals Stupid,pathetic and full of B.S with so much force and Hatered that you have to bring armed bikers infront of mosque with these 'peaceful' Cartoons is Not Ragging than i dont know what is.
  
These people purposely did this event on Friday when Muslims go & perform their Friday prayers. Interesting to see some people would rather sit outside a mosque annoying people who have done nothing wrong than go to Texas & help out flood or tornado victims who could used the extra help... And then they will say they are about freedom and peace when all they do is spread hatred and then moan for what they have caused by playing the victim...


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..FallAndFly..

Qirat. Senior Member
Qirat.
Qirat.

Joined: 16 August 2009
Posts: 505

Posted: 09 June 2015 at 9:58am | IP Logged
Originally posted by krystal_watz

On "change from within":

Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie, Wafa Sultana, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Washiqur Rahman are a few names to mention. What they did, and what was done unto them.

Freedom to criticize is allowed, as long as its with a spirit of seeking the truth & having an honest and respectable dialogue, but people are abusing freedom by inciting hatred through continuous disrespect, provocation, mockery, slander, hate speech, fear-mongering, & outright insults to our beliefs. 

Salman Rushdie rushed out of a party with his wife because some reporter made some obscene remark about his wife. If he can't tolerate a remark made to his wife how does he expect us to tolerate such bad remarks about our Prophet in the name of freedom of speech? Queen of England gave him "knighthood" for dissing Islam & Muslims. He said the hijab "suck" & are "limitation of women".. Well, what's on our head shouldn't be anyone's concern, care what's in it..  

Taslima Nasreen - What happened to her has nothing to do with Islam. Instead of hating her relatives that raped her, she started hating Islam & the Prophet. She even said female infanticide in Bangladesh is high due to "Islam"? Quran clearly prohibits such behaviour so why lie? She also said that Islam is demeaning towards woman? 

While speaking about Muslim women, she forgot that the country she came from had 2 women as PM - Khaleda Zia & Sheikh Hasina. Dr. Zakir Naik have openly challenged many people to debate with him about Islam. He challenged Taslima too, but she did not accept the challenge, knowing that if she did, her lies & knowledge about Islam will be exposed..

Another fake, idiotic, paid loser Ayaan Hirsi. There is a video on YT not from Muslims but from Dutch TV where she admitted that she lied about some info in a Dutch program. The program provided evidence that she's a liar. She lied about her name, her bg, her family, Islam & Somali culture. She lied to gain financially by writing books & films full of lies & fiction stories and fame.. 

Wafa Sultana is another liar. No offence but anyone who aligns themselves with Pamela Geller have to be mentally disturbed. ...

People like Rushdie, Taslima and their ilk are one & the same. Evil people with venom in their hearts. They lie about Islam, insult & ridicule prophetic figures for cheap publicity and to sell their books. They know the media is gonna pop up anything & everything bad if it is against Islam. Charlie Hebdo sales increased from 30,000 to 7 million copies.. These days people are willing to stoop any low for money. Ethics have gone out of the window. 

Not to mention these hypocrites doesn't even allow religion to be freely expressed but wants to allow it to be freely mocked...

Well, lie all you want about Islam, mock, insult, burn Holy books, draw cartoons, it is not gonna bring down Islam.. Peace..
http://5pillarsuk.com/2015/02/22/increase-in-muslim-converts-in-france-after-charlie-hebdo/



Edited by Qirat. - 09 June 2015 at 10:27am

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

..FallAndFly..

..FallAndFly.. IF-Rockerz
..FallAndFly..
..FallAndFly..

Joined: 01 September 2012
Posts: 8766

Posted: 09 June 2015 at 10:25am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Qirat.

Originally posted by ..FallAndFly..

Originally posted by krystal_watz

FallandFly: You're confusing between "person" and "idea". Humiliating a person (the example you provided about a group of kids making fun of a lone kid) is considered bullying. But parodying or criticising an IDEA (which Islam or any other religion is) is not.
An idea?
What?Our Prophet was A Person and we look up to him,follow his paths and you Criticising him is criticising our ways of life, Calling our Faith and ideals Stupid,pathetic and full of B.S with so much force and Hatered that you have to bring armed bikers infront of mosque with these 'peaceful' Cartoons is Not Ragging than i dont know what is.
These people purposely did this event on Friday when Muslims go & perform their Friday prayers. Interesting to see some people would rather sit outside a mosque annoying people who have done nothing wrong than go toTexas & help out flood or tornado victims who could used the extra help... And then they will say they are about freedom and peace when all they do is spread hatred and then moan for what they have caused by playingthe victim...


Well,it's all about Money LOL

And we Muslims know just why and How much they are being Paid for this Tongue
But Victory,at the end,is all ours Approve
#LiveAsAHero
#DieAsAMartyrs Embarrassed

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

Qirat.

K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

Joined: 02 September 2012
Posts: 2031

Posted: 09 June 2015 at 10:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by QuietlyLoud


Deliberate desensitization is when it is used in a therapy-when psychologists use it in an scheduled ,step-wise(someone asked about a three-step process,remember?) manner to cure debilitating fears and addictions.


Desensitization which occurs naturally is neither deliberate nor involuntary.It does not have a predetermined format or a fixed time period.The contribution of many exertions in the desired direction is what forces the change.All those 'provocations' need not be the same.They can differ in form or intensity,provided they are capable of inciting the same response.In this case,it doesn't have to be a contest,but something else they would find equally provocative or questioning the doctrine.Whether such discrete influences can be considered deliberate attempts to desensitize or not,hangs on a thin line.IMO Geller is just showing middle finger to Muslims and doesn't give a damn about making them more liberal.So it is not deliberate attempt as far as her intentions are concerned.Now if someone else hosts it with a realization of its potential,then it is.Deliberate or not,the contributers would influence the process more or less to the same degree.


You used the words "systematic desensitization" in your very first post. I could quote it for you, if you deny that again.

The definition of systematic desensitization is "a treatment for phobias in which the patient is exposed to progressively more anxiety-provoking stimuli and taught relaxation techniques.". I could post a link, if you dispute this.

Now, is your focus still on employing systematic desensitization as a solution here? It appears you wavered there, ever since I pointed out the details of that therapy and instead opted to go with desensitization.

Everyone knows what desensitization means, no one needs an education there. You want to expose a person or a group of persons to negative stimulus (in this context, draw Muhammad cartoons) so that they become desensitized.

I asked you guys what makes you think that this will work. You said that it worked in reforming Catholic church, in people's acceptance of homosexuals.

I pointed out that what worked in reforming catholic church was clearly recorded in history - that cultural and intellectual forces in Western Europe emphasized reason, analysis, and individualism to counter traditional lines of authority.

What led to some countries and states to accept homosexuals are tireless LGBT social movements. Nowhere in the timeline of LGBT history did they employ "desensitization" techniques so people could start accepting them as normal.


And yes,people who have specific phobias are not healthy.It is a type of anxiety disorder.

Irrelevant to this debate but people with phobias can be perfectly healthy. If I have claustrophobia, doesn't mean I am not healthy. You may muck it up by bringing "mental health" but as long as I can function productively, cope with the challenges of everyday life and make a positive contribution to the society, I am, and will be, considered healthy, regardless of my fear of confined places.




The pressure to reform Roman Catholic Church came from the population which was not the part of Papal administrative circle-Those who suffered at the hands of Pope-heretics,scientists,philosophers,native people,gypsies and list goes on.Those who were not desensitized to violence but suffered the effects of it.These people challenged the papal authority and their right to define Christian doctrine.If it was not for these people and their exertions,the Church would have remained the same.Without these influences, it would never have changed on it own because violence was a survival mechanism to the Church-To gain and retain power,to oppress the challengers,to preach sacraments and to keep people in ignorance.

This is fluff. Please stop believing in your own fluff. Please read about European history in general and the age of enlightenment in particular. Nowhere in Renaissance or humanism or protestant reformation do they speak of "desensitization".


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..FallAndFly..

..FallAndFly.. IF-Rockerz
..FallAndFly..
..FallAndFly..

Joined: 01 September 2012
Posts: 8766

Posted: 09 June 2015 at 11:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Qirat.

Originally posted by krystal_watz

On "change from within":

Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie, Wafa Sultana, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Washiqur Rahman are a few names to mention. What they did, and what was done unto them.


Freedom to criticize is allowed, as long as its with a spirit of seeking the truth & having an honest and respectable dialogue, but people are abusing freedom by inciting hatred through continuous disrespect, provocation,mockery, slander, hate speech, fear-mongering, & outright insults to our beliefs.

Salman Rushdie rushed out of a party with his wife because some reporter made some obscene remark about his wife. If he can't tolerate a remark made to his wife how does he expect us to tolerate such bad remarksabout our Prophet in the name of freedom of speech? Queen of England gave him "knighthood" for dissing Islam & Muslims. He said the hijab "suck" & are "limitation of women".. Well, what's on our head shouldn't beanyone's concern, care what's in it..

Taslima Nasreen - What happened to her has nothing to do with Islam. Instead of hating her relatives that raped her, she started hating Islam & the Prophet. She even said female infanticide in Bangladesh is high due to"Islam"? Quran clearly prohibits such behaviour so why lie?She also said that Islam is demeaning towards woman?
<img src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ff/59/33/ff5933d31a234ec0c14573c3eab225b7.jpg" alt="" />

While speaking about Muslim women, she forgot that the country she came from had 2 women as PM - Khaleda Zia & Sheikh Hasina. Dr. Zakir Naik have openly challenged many people to debate with him aboutIslam. He challenged Taslima too, but she did not accept the challenge, knowing that if she did, her lies & knowledge about Islam will be exposed..

Another fake, idiotic, paid loser Ayaan Hirsi. There is a video on YT not from Muslims but from Dutch TV where she admitted that she lied about some info in a Dutch program. The program provided evidencethat she's a liar. She lied about her name, her bg, her family, Islam & Somali culture. She lied to gain financially by writing books & films full of lies & fiction stories and fame..

Wafa Sultana is another liar. No offence but anyone who aligns themselves with Pamela Geller have to be mentally disturbed. ...

People like Rushdie, Taslima and their ilk are one & the same. Evil people with venom in their hearts. They lie about Islam, insult & ridicule prophetic figures for cheap publicity and to sell their books. They know the media is gonna pop up anything & everything bad if it is against Islam. Charlie Hebdo sales increased from 30,000 to 7 million copies.. These days people are willing to stoop any low for money. Ethics have gone out of the window.

Not to mention these hypocrites doesn't even allow religion to be freely expressed but wants to allow it to be freely mocked...

Well, lie all you want about Islam, mock, insult, burn Holy books, draw cartoons, it is not gonna bring down Islam.. Peace..
http://5pillarsuk.com/2015/02/22/increase-in-muslim-converts-in-france-after-charlie-hebdo/
http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2015/01/149537/french-director-converts-to-islam-after-charlie-hebdo-attacks/
Muhammad ( PBUH ) was the first one to put a Stop to Female Infanticide and Win so successfully!
How could she even say that?I bet she never even touched the Quran and made it up just to get popular.

And one thing i dont understand is why,covering your head and dressing up decently withhold women from success?
Unless you want want to go to modeling industry Sleepy
But in all the other jobs i dont think it oppresses them in any way.

If you dont want to were a Hijab,then dont.But stop cursing the religion cause the Reason for wearing it very noble!
And its NOT saving ourselves for our husbands!
Its for not getting disturbing Catwhistles and dirty comments from the Creepy guys.
And,No.Islam doesn't blame women if she is teased or worse,Raped.Cause the Criminal is given even a Death penalty at times when he goes on and uses any weapon or Gun to harm the lady in a Irreversible way!
We women are Valued more than Gold or any other Precious Stones in Islam,Just like we keep them safe with us,treasure it,take care of it...Men are ordered to protect us,And we are ordered to Were Modest clothes and Hijab as A Precaution.

They may try,but can never wreck our faith Cool

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

Qirat.

krystal_watz IF-Sizzlerz
krystal_watz
krystal_watz

Joined: 10 August 2009
Posts: 14044

Posted: 09 June 2015 at 11:36pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ..FallAndFly..

Murders and Rape is as common as Sex all over the World Now.
Just like a Boy of only 17 told me the other day that Doing the Deed and Keeping the Good boy image infront of parents is more easy than i think.
Now,I've been friends with this boy and his Whole group for more than 4yrs.But never wanted to fit in the Group because i detest their Filthy ways of Popularity.
So,they assumed i didn't join them in their Wild Parties was because i was Scared to ruin my 'Good girl Image'...So,what happend to them?
they are,in your words,desensitised
This is what they see all over the TVs,Listen in the Radios,On their Mobiles...hell,even Ads nowadays promotes promiscuous Sex!
Now tell me if you think we should keep quiet about this And let half the world die with STDs!
Because ppl might have been "Desensitised" but Mother Nature is Not.
Likewise,the amount Rape and Murder cases are Rapidly increasing and are all over the News,
Are You Desensitised?Doesn't it Matter to you anymore?NO.It matters and we are still finding ways to stop it,because we know its wrong.
Logically, if 1.7 billion ppl picked up a Gun and started shooting Everyone and Anyone that population the would Decrease to perhaps 4 Billions in about a Month.But we are not doing this are we?Now because Of 7% of Muslims who have now dedicated their life to Terrorism more than Allah,we 93% percentage of Muslims have to keep quiet and Watch you Desensitise us?
7%of Muslims Represents our Religion and not the 93%?
And did you Ever,just once,thought that if Muslims were so strict and Powerful and Dangerous then why is It that Children in Gaza,Syria,palestine and so many other places Have to Beg for Help and just a Piece of Bread and not get anything other than Humiliation?
Where are Al-Qayda,Isis this and that Now?
Aren't they suppose to protect us if they are protecting Islam?
Dont you see the truth?Or have you been desensitised to our Pains?

I refuse to be desensitised by Blind People and Media.
I will Speak when i see something Wrong.
I will Go against Them.
And i will Say 'You're Wrong,You cant make me agree with you'
And i will protest However i can.
I will fight them with Logic and Word,because this is My_Freedom of opinion and Expression and
FREEDOM.OF.SPEECH



Actually,there are studies which show that desensitisation towards violence and sexual crimes is growing amongst the present internet-iPhone generation. Juvenile crime rates are going up several notches in a lot of societies. Its not always on an individual level, but more of a 'collective mindset' phenomenon.
krystal_watz IF-Sizzlerz
krystal_watz
krystal_watz

Joined: 10 August 2009
Posts: 14044

Posted: 09 June 2015 at 11:49pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Qirat.

Originally posted by krystal_watz

On "change from within":

Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie, Wafa Sultana, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Washiqur Rahman are a few names to mention. What they did, and what was done unto them.

Freedom to criticize is allowed, as long as its with a spirit of seeking the truth & having an honest and respectable dialogue, but people are abusing freedom by inciting hatred through continuous disrespect, provocation, mockery, slander, hate speech, fear-mongering, & outright insults to our beliefs. 

Salman Rushdie rushed out of a party with his wife because some reporter made some obscene remark about his wife. If he can't tolerate a remark made to his wife how does he expect us to tolerate such bad remarks about our Prophet in the name of freedom of speech? Queen of England gave him "knighthood" for dissing Islam & Muslims. He said the hijab "suck" & are "limitation of women".. Well, what's on our head shouldn't be anyone's concern, care what's in it..  

Taslima Nasreen - What happened to her has nothing to do with Islam. Instead of hating her relatives that raped her, she started hating Islam & the Prophet. She even said female infanticide in Bangladesh is high due to "Islam"? Quran clearly prohibits such behaviour so why lie? She also said that Islam is demeaning towards woman? 

While speaking about Muslim women, she forgot that the country she came from had 2 women as PM - Khaleda Zia & Sheikh Hasina. Dr. Zakir Naik have openly challenged many people to debate with him about Islam. He challenged Taslima too, but she did not accept the challenge, knowing that if she did, her lies & knowledge about Islam will be exposed..

Another fake, idiotic, paid loser Ayaan Hirsi. There is a video on YT not from Muslims but from Dutch TV where she admitted that she lied about some info in a Dutch program. The program provided evidence that she's a liar. She lied about her name, her bg, her family, Islam & Somali culture. She lied to gain financially by writing books & films full of lies & fiction stories and fame.. 

Wafa Sultana is another liar. No offence but anyone who aligns themselves with Pamela Geller have to be mentally disturbed. ...

People like Rushdie, Taslima and their ilk are one & the same. Evil people with venom in their hearts. They lie about Islam, insult & ridicule prophetic figures for cheap publicity and to sell their books. They know the media is gonna pop up anything & everything bad if it is against Islam. Charlie Hebdo sales increased from 30,000 to 7 million copies.. These days people are willing to stoop any low for money. Ethics have gone out of the window. 

Not to mention these hypocrites doesn't even allow religion to be freely expressed but wants to allow it to be freely mocked...

Well, lie all you want about Islam, mock, insult, burn Holy books, draw cartoons, it is not gonna bring down Islam.. Peace..
http://5pillarsuk.com/2015/02/22/increase-in-muslim-converts-in-france-after-charlie-hebdo/



I'm sorry, but I don't think its possible to engage in a reasonable exchange with you once you present Zakir Nayek as a righteous scholar of Islam. The guy's practically a joke to all except for some hard-core fanatics. 

About Taslima, uh huh, you know nothing about her or the reason she developed such an aversive outlook towards Islam. Its not because of her uncle who raped her. Read up her biography,and then we can talk. Also, she's studied Islam and the Hadiths, and she's punctuated every criticism/slander (whatever you call it) with reference from the texts themselves. 

And whoever told you that powerful women leaders (on the topic of Hasina and Khaleda) don't propagate the entrenched norms of patriarchy, is grossly mistaken with no understanding of how a patriarchal set-up works. Also note that Bangladesh has one of the worst records of women rights. Having two female Prime Ministers did zilch in that case.

And lastly, if you think that no amount of "slandering" is going to destroy your faith, why the heck do you want to hound people who criticise it? Leave them alone, they're not gonna do any harm. LOL I don't pay attention to people who I think are utterly unable to inflict harm on me, I ignore their rants. The moment the whole Muslim world goes up in flames over the tiniest bit of perceived "blasphemy", issues death threats, holds violent rallies etc., it means they're not so sure that these handful of blasphemers can NOT do any harm to their faith. Look at the Christian world and how it handles mockery of Christ and Christianity in general---they ignore stuff like "Piss Christ", knowing that such stuff ain't gonna change their faith. Now THAT is called being secure, not running after people with bayonets and bombs.


P.S. Do show me links which prove that Hirsi Ali and Sultana are "liars".


Edited by krystal_watz - 09 June 2015 at 11:56pm

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