User
Logout
Login Register
CONTEST : IPL 2024 Prediction Game
You are here :
  1. Home
  2. Forums
  3. Bollywood News, Bollywood Movies, Bollywood Chat
  4. They don't understand the context: Homi Adajania to 'My Choice' critic
  5. Page 7
Watch
Bollywood News, Bollywood Movies, Bollywood Chat Forum

They don't understand the context: Homi Adajania to 'My Choice' critic - Page 7

share facebook twitter
--Pro.vo.King--
--Pro.vo.King-- @--Pro.vo.King-- IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 9 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by atominis


@Mighty-Zeus

I feel lucky to have grown up in a family where people value each other. Yes we do not even see adults in our families or even neighbourhoods, holding hands etc so the thought of parents, uncles, aunts, and even grandparents having their own GFs, BFs etc is repulsive.
I think most us who are from India come from a similar background , while it is a good thing on so many levels , i do feel that our upbringing makes us resistant to things which we may perceive as 'western' or 'alien' when in fact humans all over the world basically struggle with more or less the same issues .. can you imagine the pressures with which a gay kid will grow up in our so-called tightly-knit loving-sacrificing family system ?.. i am not advocating mimicking the west , but i think we should come around in accepting reasonable changes ..   

Therefore I still maintain those who make such lifestyle choices should avoid having kids. Do the kids a favour, by not bringing them to your kind of world. 
I can't imagine how kids in such open marriage households deal with things and perceive the world. 

While your point is not invalid , i would say maybe the vision has been clouded with Indian style of parenting..I dont think open marriage equals bad parenting .. 

One thing I must say. Avoid generalising that all men cheat. There are men who have given up on their own dreams to support their families, who tolerate everybody's nagging and whims, who might have quarrels but still stay faithful, who don't leave their spouse even if they are encouraged to throw her out. Religion and much of mass media also discourage cheating. Nobody says you're free to cheat. Their are guys who have been disowned by own families for cheating on their wife. Though, it is still hoped that guy could cone back and be forgiven if he regrets his mistake and changes, and never commits same mistake again (that I feel, is wrong. Why forgive? ). 

Those who say, "boys will be boys" and justify anything, get criticised universally. I have never seen a single instance wherein a man's acts were excused and it didn't invite criticism and condemnation. Times are changing. 

I can only say it's hypocrisy to ask men to respect or behave a certain way or start discourse on redefining masculinity but glorify women doing same things that men were criticised for.

Even if we accept that all men cheat, still, it is better to stop them from cheating, discourage them in every way from indulging in such behaviour instead of getting women to go same way. 

PREACH !! .. Totally Agree with this.. 

I don't know why focus is on s**t shaming only when men are also called tharki, casanova, player, dog and whatnot. It's not like such men are spared from all judging! Had a man been shown in this video, unzipping his pants and mouthing lines about sex, he would be criticised as well, perhaps even more than the criticism this video got. Nobody would even give him benefit of doubt or make excuses about context and interpretation. 

In a way you are right but may be you are glossing over the fact that universally what is perceived to be "masculine" ( aggression , physical strength , sexual virility , successfully bedding multiple women ) is still widely eulogized in the real world while whats considered to be feminine ( being physically weak ) is looked down upon.. i know the world is changing for good but still the jungle law does show its ugly face beneath all the big talk of condemning whats wrong & encouraging whats right .. the best place to witness this jungle law is high school, where there are bullies at the top of food chain .. ðŸ˜† .. in the real world , men still rule due their perceived stronger status .. so the criticisms for being a jerk are indeed welcome but thats not enough to brush away the fact that men do tend to get away with 'boys will be boys' excuse .. however , on the bright side things are changing for better .. but irrational feminism will only make it worse ..  

Still, even if we accept such relationships are okay, I would request to please avoid having kids. I cannot imagine kids growing up in such an environment. 

I think its better to not complicate an open marriage by having kids , however , i dont think its fair to equate open marriage with bad parenting .. 

I sometimes wonder what else are people going to ask for in name of freedom of choice. Society might have many debatable rules but it doesn't mean anything goes in name of choice and there ought to be no rules at all. 

This is what irrational feminism leads to .. and this is why it is important not to encourage irrational feminism ... we have reached a point where feminism has evolved beyond the realms of equalism .. feminism in its honest form ( fight for women''s right in a patriarchal society ) was a savior in its initial days but now due to its multiple interpretations & evolution through ages it has turned into scheme without a justified cause .. so in order to protect the sanctity of true feminism , i think its important to base gender rights on equalism without complicating it by bringing in the notion of modern twisted feminism ..modern twisted feminism is reckless .. 

Adultery is a crime in Indian law for a man and can invite upto 5 years of punishment. The woman is not penalised though, as the law assumes that man must have forced her or seduced her. Law is already lenient on her. She doesn't need to wax eloquent on #MyChoice in this aspect.

Being a man in India is no piece of cake !  ðŸ˜†

These videos of obscure poems in English are not going to have any impact at all. The message won't reach masses. And take it from me in writing, that it would have received far worse backlash than this had the exact lines been uttered in Hindi. 

I think translating it Hindi is likely to change the 'context' too.. ðŸ˜†..dont ask me why , coz i dont know why .. ðŸ˜†

pencil REPLY QUOTE
atominis
@642126 Hibernated
Posted: 9 years ago
Sindhu

I agree that woman should have final say in having a child or not. Nobody justifies pressure on women to bear as many kids as possible or bear male child.

You are mistaken that men don't get punished for affairs. Both boy and girl were hanged in an honour killing in Haryana recently. Man was labelled a rapist and lynched to death in Dimapur and girl was spared though it was case of consensual sex. We read of cases daily, of men committing suicide because wife ran away with lover or because in laws and wife's brothers were threatening him, or men being murdered by wife's lover.
Fake rape cases have also emerged. When affair goes wrong then girl slapped charges of rape. Or attempted suicide and slapped charges of abetment to suicide.

Adultery is punishable offense by law for men but not women in India.

While many do twist law to protect men it doesn't mean only women bear the brunt all the time. And all men get leeway to do anything.

Female victims atleast get heard. Male victims are not even taken seriously, get laughed at for not being man enough.
pencil REPLY QUOTE
~*sindhu*~
~*sindhu*~ @~*sindhu*~ IF-Sizzlerz
Anniversary 16 Group Promotion 6 Networker 1
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by atominis


Sindhu

I agree that woman should have final say in having a child or not. Nobody justifies pressure on women to bear as many kids as possible or bear male child.

You are mistaken that men don't get punished for affairs. Both boy and girl were hanged in an honour killing in Haryana recently. Man was labelled a rapist and lynched to death in Dimapur and girl was spared though it was case of consensual sex. We read of cases daily, of men committing suicide because wife ran away with lover or because in laws and wife's brothers were threatening him, or men being murdered by wife's lover.
Fake rape cases have also emerged. When affair goes wrong then girl slapped charges of rape. Or attempted suicide and slapped charges of abetment to suicide.

Adultery is punishable offense by law for men but not women in India.

While many do twist law to protect men it doesn't mean only women bear the brunt all the time. And all men get leeway to do anything.

Female victims atleast get heard. Male victims are not even taken seriously, get laughed at for not being man enough.


Again we are genralising the whole thing. Like I said I m not talking about everyone. I m talking about the cases where men do get free passes because the society viewed it as a mistake whereas in the same case when a woman does it she has commited a crime. I know there are laws but I m talking about the views of a society which I think is what the video was aiming. Its how a society perceives and how it should take a back seat and see how we are being unfair while judging men and women differently.Again by society I mean a part of the society. The one where u and I don't belong most probably but the kinds like those SC lawyers and some of our ministers and neighbours do.

I don't think honour killing is the same as what I talked about. I was talking about woman having marital affairs and then being punished in public. Like someone stated men get beaten up too. I totally agree that men gets accused and punished for things they shouldn't. Worse is they don't even  gets recognised by the society. This is what happens to a male dominated society. They made men look and believe so superior and indestructible that now when normal people get affected nobody is even acknowledging it. I understand them and I have equal sympathy for both men and women who have been victim to such situations. But we don't get to disregard  a woman and her situations in this society because a man has been dealing the same. The video was about woman empowerment and her problems so thats how I m looking at it. Men and their problems in this society are separate issues we can't merge them all in one topic. Thats no solution is it? two issues can't cancel each other out.If the topic is about woman then lets deal with that. When the topic will be about men we will deal with it. I personally think its about time men come out and start discussing their problems in the open despite whether someone acknowledges it or not. Otherwise nothing will change.

Regarding law. Yes its wrong that men are punishable by law but woman aren't/ Again men are not punishable by law for marital rape.Any justice system comes with its own set of flaws.As we progress we change.
Edited by ~*sindhu*~ - 9 years ago
pencil REPLY QUOTE
return_to_hades
return_to_hades @return_to_hades IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 18 Group Promotion 7 + 6
Posted: 9 years ago
@Mighty_Zeus - In response to your post on page 7. 

I don't support adultery or cheating. I don't know why you would infer that. Cheating is immoral, wrong and a betrayal of a commitment. 

However, it is not for society to decide. The lines of cheating vs. faithfulness are up to each couple to decide. What both men and women do inside marriage and outside marriage is their choice, not societies. When men and women make mistakes in relationships they are accountable to their partners, not to society. You should not forgive a cheater, because society thinks marriage must be sustained. You should not punish a cheater, because society thinks cheating is unpardonable. Go with your feel for the relationship. If you feel your relationship can be rebuilt and last, go for it. If you think everything is over, end it. This applies universally to men and women. 

pencil REPLY QUOTE
return_to_hades
return_to_hades @return_to_hades IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 18 Group Promotion 7 + 6
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by sunflower52


This is happening because the video generalized that men are bad, especially that line"Your sins my virtue".


I don't think the video said anything about men being bad. Most of the content was "societal" directing society to stop demonizing women who do not fit the "ideal woman" mold. People are inferring that it is anti-men. 


I interpret "Your sins, my virtue" differently as well. 


I read it in the context of other famous quotes like "One man's ceiling is another man's floor" or "One man's garbage is another man's treasure". We all come from different perspectives. What maybe sinful for some, may not be so for others and vice versa. We cannot judge the world by our definitions alone. It is relative. For example one may be morally against drinking or pre-marital sex, but they cannot force everyone to that view. 


I do not interpret it in the hypocritical context of saying that action "X" is sinful for men but virtuous for women. I don't believe this was the intent of the makers either. 

pencil REPLY QUOTE
sunflower52
Ume Salma Kakal @sunflower52 IF-Rockerz
Anniversary 17 Visit Streak 180 0 + 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by return_to_hades




I don't think the video said anything about men being bad. Most of the content was "societal" directing society to stop demonizing women who do not fit the "ideal woman" mold. People are inferring that it is anti-men. 


I interpret "Your sins, my virtue" differently as well. 


I read it in the context of other famous quotes like "One man's ceiling is another man's floor" or "One man's garbage is another man's treasure". We all come from different perspectives. What maybe sinful for some, may not be so for others and vice versa. We cannot judge the world by our definitions alone. It is relative. For example one may be morally against drinking or pre-marital sex, but they cannot force everyone to that view. 


I do not interpret it in the hypocritical context of saying that action "X" is sinful for men but virtuous for women. I don't believe this was the intent of the makers either. 


Well the intent of the makers were not properly defined or clear. This what happens when a issue is generalized and that is why the line that bugged me because who are they say to talk about virtues or sins of men or women.

That line should not have been in the video in the 1st place, many could have interpret in the wrong way.

I said in earlier post all of these serious issues can not be made into a 2 minute video of some urban women.
pencil REPLY QUOTE
CineFanLuver
Nora @CineFanLuver IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 9 Group Promotion 4 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by return_to_hades




I don't think the video said anything about men being bad. Most of the content was "societal" directing society to stop demonizing women who do not fit the "ideal woman" mold. People are inferring that it is anti-men. 


I interpret "Your sins, my virtue" differently as well. 


I read it in the context of other famous quotes like "One man's ceiling is another man's floor" or "One man's garbage is another man's treasure". We all come from different perspectives. What maybe sinful for some, may not be so for others and vice versa. We cannot judge the world by our definitions alone. It is relative. For example one may be morally against drinking or pre-marital sex, but they cannot force everyone to that view. 


I do not interpret it in the hypocritical context of saying that action "X" is sinful for men but virtuous for women. I don't believe this was the intent of the makers either. 

The crux of the issue  i think is, they failed to remember one thing: the public they are targeting has an unfortunate tendency of taking things quite literally & being hyper sensitive.  Therefore they should have taken that into consideration while making the video. 
Besides, the spokeperson is the wrong choice for this, as Deepu dearest has created for herself a very sexualised image with little susbstance in it to sustain her new empowering claims. From the 99 women used, someone else should have been front row & center to the campain.
That is why their message got lost & they are being clowned.
pencil REPLY QUOTE
CineFanLuver
Nora @CineFanLuver IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 9 Group Promotion 4 + 2
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by atominis


This is a major marketing campaign by Vogue in association with several brands. Milking social issues for publicity and image building are the fad these days.
Anyone who thinks it's not about PR is living in denial.

Feminist blogs have mostly criticised such stunts by likes of Vogue.

Hear, hear!
Which makes it even more funny because it is backfiring. Just another reminder that charity & good causes should not be used for personal gain. When are they gon learn? I wonder😆
pencil REPLY QUOTE
--Pro.vo.King--
--Pro.vo.King-- @--Pro.vo.King-- IF-Dazzler
Anniversary 9 Group Promotion 4
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by return_to_hades


@Mighty_Zeus - In response to your post on page 7.

I don't support adultery or cheating. I don't know why you would infer that. Cheating is immoral, wrong and a betrayal of a commitment.

However, it is not for society to decide. The lines of cheating vs. faithfulness are up to each couple to decide. What both men and women do inside marriage and outside marriage is their choice, not societies. When men and women make mistakes in relationships they are accountable to their partners, not to society. You should not forgive a cheater, because society thinks marriage must be sustained. You should not punish a cheater, because society thinks cheating is unpardonable. Go with your feel for the relationship. If you feel your relationship can be rebuilt and last, go for it. If you think everything is over, end it. This applies universally to men and women.




First of all , I did not "infer" anything about you .. in fact I was confused by your post as to exactly what you were getting at, you know with whole cheating should be ok & that's women empowerment issue bcoz I honestly don't think glorifying 'cheating' can in any way contribute to women empowerment .. and my harsh criticisms were directed towards rabid feminists who are claiming that if its a woman doing it , its no biggie .. that's irrational & reckless feminism , one that needs to be curbed before it gets out of hand & puts real feminism to shame & in an inferior position resulting due to severe backlash from the society .. these feminists need to realize that being irrational is no way going to help their cause..

As for your interpretation , I am still not clear .. you say you interpreted "sex outside of marriage" as "cheating" & then you gave me the impression that you do support advertising cheating like that in a feminist video .. I dont think something like 'cheating' which comes with a negative perception for all the right reasons needs to be stripped off of its negative identity ..I do not quite understand the msg here .. cheating is of course personal & it is for the couple to decide their due course of action but what exactly is to be established & achieved by making 'cheating' OK ?.. what's the point ?.. if a society judges a wrong thing irrespective of gender, what's so offensive in that ?..Edited by Mighty-Zeus - 9 years ago
pencil REPLY QUOTE
return_to_hades
return_to_hades @return_to_hades IF-Stunnerz
Anniversary 18 Group Promotion 7 + 6
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by Mighty-Zeus




First of all , I did not "infer" anything about you .. in fact I was confused by your post as to exactly what you were getting at, you know with whole cheating should be ok & that's women empowerment issue bcoz I honestly don't think glorifying 'cheating' can in any way contribute to women empowerment .. and my harsh criticisms were directed towards rabid feminists who are claiming that if its a woman doing it , its no biggie .. that's irrational & reckless feminism , one that needs to be curbed before it gets out of hand & puts real feminism to shame & in an inferior position resulting due to severe backlash from the society .. these feminists need to realize that being irrational is no way going to help their cause..

As for your interpretation , I am still not clear .. you say you interpreted "sex outside of marriage" as "cheating" & then you gave me the impression that you do support advertising cheating like that in a feminist video .. I dont think something like 'cheating' which comes with a negative perception for all the right reasons needs to be stripped off of its negative identity ..I do not quite understand the msg here .. cheating is of course personal & it is for the couple to decide their due course of action but what exactly is to be established & achieved by making 'cheating' OK ?.. what's the point ?.. if a society judges a wrong thing irrespective of gender, what's so offensive in that ?..

Initially, I interpreted it as an endorsement of cheating and thought it was wrong. If they are endorsing infidelity then it is wrong. But now I am open to the fact that they meant something different, but didn't have the right verbiage or presentation. 


I am a firm believer that relationships are strictly between two people and society has no right to judge or intervene. There are men and women who are forced to remain in bad marriages because of societal pressure. There are men and women who are pressured to end marriages because of societal judgement on their spouse.  There will be many things within the relationship we will never know to make a fair objective assessment about any issue, including cheating. 


In general cheating is wrong, but let the person who was cheated on decide what they want to do about it. We shouldn't tell them to forgive or punish.  

pencil REPLY QUOTE
left-big Previous 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 Next right-big
Homi Adajania
Homi Adajania

Related Topics

doc-text Topics pencil Author stackexchange Replies eye Views clock Last Post Reply
Ranveer’s Don to outshine SRK’s Don series with a 275 crore budget

pencil Debbira   stackexchange 104   eye 4468

Debbira 104 4468 1 months ago rckRadhe
Animal (No Context Synopsis)

pencil return_to_hades   stackexchange 0   eye 339

return_to_hades 0 339 4 months ago return_to_hades
Umesh Punwani (critic) passes away from cardiac arrest

pencil DushtKanya   stackexchange 0   eye 522

DushtKanya 0 522 2 months ago DushtKanya
Emraan Hashmi to play villain in Ranveer’s Don 3 ?

pencil Maroonporsche   stackexchange 9   eye 552

Maroonporsche 9 552 24 days ago MiVida_Messi
~ Mujhko Pehchan Lo, Mai Hoon DON ~

pencil DreamOfEndless   stackexchange 159   eye 2494

DreamOfEndless 159 2494 25 days ago Deadinside

Topic Info

38 Participants 76 Replies 7762Views

Topic started by DianaPrince

Last replied by NidhiAS.Raizada

loader
loader
up-open TOP