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Sushpective: There is a side to you I never knew never knew.... (Page 7)

habs Goldie
habs
habs

Joined: 25 June 2012
Posts: 1134

Posted: 31 December 2014 at 2:26pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Leesan

Seriously.Wink

 
Sush: "Hi Indra...perhaps I missed some dialogues that indicated he was indulging in self pity...? But the self pity angle comes across
 not by Sahirs action...which actually make sense to me...but sometimes the explanation of why they should make sense...LOL.

To me what came across was that he was very sad...after breaking up with Arzoo...and was resolving to accept this ..."

[/QUOTE] 
Indra: "I couldn't agree more!!  He was sad yes, but I had a harder time feeling sorry for him than the majority; I think I'm with Lee when she basically told him to "suck it up" LOL"

Leesan:  You girls are gonna get me in chubble! LOL But  never one to resist...here goes! Wink

Without doubt, HC is doing a fab job in his portrayal of SAC, he's a very nuanced actor, and manages to dominate any scene in which he appears, very captivating indeed.

It's just the characterization of Sahir that I sometimes have difficulty  with . As a suave ,successful,demanding at times businessman, with a sense of fairness in his dealings...no problem. As a devoted ,dedicated son and brother...no problem. As a concerned yet wounded husband awaiting the fate of his errant (?) comatose wife...I get it.  I actually admire his loyalty as many men would have moved on already. Falling hard for Arzoo, understandable. He's lonely,starved for affection and acceptance , it's only natural.His conflict re his feelings and response to Arzoo, I get that too, after all he's still married and affected  by Zeenat's present circumstance. So far...so good. 

What I have difficulty with is his inability, or refusal to move forward with his life and in so doing punishing and torturing himself ( and others?) so severely. And for what, a deal? To prove a point to someone in a coma, re a promise made 7+ years ago ? This characterization of a deep dark tormented soul just doesn't gel with a promise made ,even if the 22 yr old wife cheated,lied,insulted whatever!!  There better be something more insidious or else this dark obsessive behavior rings hollow to me, especially if Zeenat was just a harridan! 

Not to belabor the point,but many people endure extreme hardships everyday, harsh, life threatening , horrific things . In the scheme of life, a cruel uncaring partner should not produce such obsessive,destructive behavior after so long. If he was a friend, we might recommend him to get professional help,deal with it, move on etc. Something is just not adding up IMO, yes he's in pain but so are other characters, and pain is pain! We can't quantify it as being more than another's pain, we may handle if differently, but...it's still pain.  The reason for his tormented life seems to be the basis of this show, let's  hope that his dark characterization  will be justified by the eventual back story...and soon! It's just not that convincing to me at this point. 

[/QUOTE]
Excellent post!!  agree completely Clap

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grumpydwarfLeesan-Sush-

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Posted: 31 December 2014 at 2:28pm | IP Logged
By Sush: "Lee...my opinion is ...no back story was needed for him to want to make Saiyara a Fortune 500 company...people take risk, and bet everything in business...that's how capitalism works...no justification needed...no excuse was needed...it is Okay to want to take risk...and it is human to bet everything and sometimes even manipulate things...remember Linus from Sabrina? Why did we need Zeenat's promise...to bring that in? "


Leesan: True! From a business standpoint, I agree. But it's his motivation that's borders on obsession IMO. He appears to be taking these extreme risks, sacrificing the welfare of others, taking no prisoners approach, to prove a point to Zeenat??!! Or am I lost in translation here? 

Linus was all about the deal,but.. for the deals sake! The money,the challenge, excited him, it was his raison  d'tre !  He didn't have this deep dark obsession in my view. Sahir is portrayed as almost mercenary in his motivations to complete the deal ( the kiss?) before sleeping beauty awakes from her long slumber!  Sorry, I think it's a bit far fetched, to put your whole existence on hold for a promise to a comatose wife? There must be more for this to make some sense to me! 

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habsgrumpydwarf-Sush-

jay_bpm IF-Stunnerz
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Posts: 25345

Posted: 31 December 2014 at 3:33pm | IP Logged
I see some type of discussion on personality and pain so must jump in given my profession and even interest LOL
Certainly Sahir is not first person in world to feel pain and not going to be last person. Sure pain is pain but still some events in our life leave much harsher marks than others. Once again this is reason I want to see his past, whole Zeenat issue for that very reason. Every individual has different personality. What type of being Sahir was? We have only seen bits of it ! Also depending on event we all may modify if not change some aspect of our personality or approach to situation !

The darkness they have shown in Sahir, they better have something very drastic ! Not just betrayal but much much more !! 

It is also right people come out of their past, pain and move on; after all resilience is very important factor of our being. However everyone needs help to move on and take a step further. Those who have lost loved one, been betrayed or whatever be the case - they need someone! So far I do not see Sahir has such support. Everyone in family seems to go on with their motive. KA and Anam want to rule, older bro is gone, Alvira - not really sure what is her motive and Zaki with his lifestyle. 
I wonder if family member even know Sahir has been hurting himself to this extent or if they do know do they care or they just scared and rather leave him at it? Confused So far I have only seen Aarzoo barge in to relieve Sahir's pain and at times even if he says no. Even in office scene when Sahir breaks it all (seems his fav pass time LOL) Aarzoo dear goes in to stop him !

As far as self-mutilation goes, well need to realize how ppl deal with immense emotional pain ! Those who do not know what else to do hurt their selves, not coz hey are weak it's just they do not know what else to do !! 
Also this type of individual have lost sense of self-worth. So called self-respect may have been replaced with ego ! So again need to reveal the past to know where does Sahir fits? 


Edited by jay_bpm - 31 December 2014 at 3:33pm

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Leesan-Sush-THEfanOFheartz-Bhavi

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Posted: 31 December 2014 at 3:57pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by BHAVII

Originally posted by jay_bpm



 

Fir laut aaya apne virane me
Ghane andhere jaha raste dikhaye
khamoshiyon ke shor me jita hu
Narazgi khud se sheene me basaye
Khud se har pal nafrat nibhaye
Sirf dard ko hi apna wajood banaye
Muskhil se milli aarzoo ko durr bhagaye
Pyar se khud ko pare karte jaye
Jeena he mujko khud ko bar bar marne ke liye 
Chalna he mujhe bar bar girne ke liye

Awesome JayClap
Since you wrote on Sahir's part responding from Arzoo's POV

Kyu girne ki hain yeh Arzoo tumhe
Ek Arzoo hi thi is Arzoo ke liye
Har woh lamha jo ajeez tha jeene ke liye
Un lamho ko chheen liya ek adhoori Aarzoo ke liye
Shor bhi na hua jaab toota dil kisi Arzooo ke liye
Aj jab jana ki ek fareb tha har fasana Arzoo ke liye.Cry


Beautiful episodes and am loving the level of communication that has been shown in this show.Clap
HC is splendid in his acting an d Shivya was ok.could have done better.

Even I loved Sahirs line ek hi to arzoo thi.

The actor playing Zaki too is doing fab job. But at times his voice is like SRKOuch 

They changed montage and now zaki is there tooConfused so What next?


Beautiful post Sush and equally beautiful collages.Clap
Shweta am not lost just come back home late and then have no energy to watch tv or log on. This vacation is more like 
Pai ni pedash nahi ghadik ni navrash nahi. ALL gujus will understand what I mean but for rest its basically busy doing nothingConfused

well I can only write from Sahir pov so of course you'll reply LOL
I have said it many times and will say it again HC is absolutely amazing Clap 
ahi bija keta gujju che ke aa kehwat farmavi tamme LOL

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-Bhavi

Leesan IF-Rockerz
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Posts: 6957

Posted: 31 December 2014 at 4:53pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by jay_bpm

I see some type of discussion on personality and pain so must jump in given my profession and even interest LOL
Certainly Sahir is not first person in world to feel pain and not going to be last person. Sure pain is pain but still some events in our life leave much harsher marks than others. Once again this is reason I want to see his past, whole Zeenat issue for that very reason. Every individual has different personality. What type of being Sahir was? We have only seen bits of it ! Also depending on event we all may modify if not change some aspect of our personality or approach to situation !

The darkness they have shown in Sahir, they better have something very drastic ! Not just betrayal but much much more !! 

It is also right people come out of their past, pain and move on; after all resilience is very important factor of our being. However everyone needs help to move on and take a step further. Those who have lost loved one, been betrayed or whatever be the case - they need someone! So far I do not see Sahir has such support. Everyone in family seems to go on with their motive. KA and Anam want to rule, older bro is gone, Alvira - not really sure what is her motive and Zaki with his lifestyle. 
I wonder if family member even know Sahir has been hurting himself to this extent or if they do know do they care or they just scared and rather leave him at it? Confused So far I have only seen Aarzoo barge in to relieve Sahir's pain and at times even if he says no. Even in office scene when Sahir breaks it all (seems his fav pass time LOL) Aarzoo dear goes in to stop him !

As far as self-mutilation goes, well need to realize how ppl deal with immense emotional pain ! Those who do not know what else to do hurt their selves, not coz hey are weak it's just they do not know what else to do !! 
Also this type of individual have lost sense of self-worth. So called self-respect may have been replaced with ego ! So again need to reveal the past to know where does Sahir fits? 


Perhaps I'm not the best person to find justification for Sahirs response to his obvious pain .Truth be told I may come across as a tad unsympathetic because of my own personal experiences because of my profession. I've seen it all, people ravaged by war,famine,extreme poverty, human trafficking, child soldiers, child bondage ,you name it. A few years ago I can never forget the pain in the eyes of several little boys, bonded out to pick cocoa on East African plantations,they hadn't seen their parents in over 3 years!! I could never eat a chocolate with the same relish again. And that's one of the less traumatic stories.

From my perspective, I still think a selfish,greedy, cheating, evil 22year old wife does not justify the intense levels of a deep dark,tormented,obsessive character of a 30+(?)  Sahir, and 7 years after such wife has been in a coma. All I'm saying is I hope there's something more to this other than trying to prove a point to a demanding wife.Imho,his response to his personal situation is a bit excessive, unless there's much more to be revealed later.  Self flagellation and self mutilation are signs of a definite psychological disorder and need professional  therapeutic intervention . I'll be the first to eat humble pie if it the truth turns out to be more devastating. Lets wait and watch! 

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habs-Bhavijay_bpm

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Posted: 31 December 2014 at 5:02pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Leesan

Perhaps I'm not the best person to find justification for Sahirs response to his obvious pain .Truth be told I may come across as a tad unsympathetic because of my own personal experiences because of my profession. I've seen it all, people ravaged by war,famine,extreme poverty, human trafficking, child soldiers, child bondage ,you name it. A few years ago I can never forget the pain in the eyes of several little boys, bonded out to pick cocoa on East African plantations,they hadn't seen their parents in over 3 years!! I could never eat a chocolate with the same relish again. And that's one of the less traumatic stories.

From my perspective, I still think a selfish,greedy, cheating, evil 22year old wife does not justify the intense levels of a deep dark,tormented,obsessive character of a 30+(?)  Sahir, and 7 years after such wife has been in a coma. All I'm saying is I hope there's something more to this other than trying to prove a point to a demanding wife.Imho,his response to his personal situation is a bit excessive, unless there's much more to be revealed later.  Self flagellation and self mutilation are signs of a definite psychological disorder and need professional  therapeutic intervention . I'll be the first to eat humble pie if it the truth turns out to be more devastating. Lets wait and watch! 
Oh I am not even saying want justification for his character, I want an explanation ! In my profession too I don't get too attached and dealing with suicide and once even homicidal ideation is fine by me LOL All I say is just another day at work !!

I too agree that saying wife cheated on him is too small of a thing for such dark, ddevastatedand tormented individual. I at least want to see that gal publicly having humiliated Sahir for the eprson he was. I think I said it before, good start may be zeenat having thrown that black coffee and burned toast on Sahir's face !! I know sounds bad but well I need to see it to say yes Sahir makes sense LOL

Self mutilation suggest borderline traits if not full blown disorder. Hence I mentioned the lack of self-worth in some aspect. I fear makers may not fully give such explanation but guess wishful thinking by me !
And I certainly not saying ur pov is wrong, no just trying to join discussion ! Tongue

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habsLeesan

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Posts: 6957

Posted: 31 December 2014 at 5:37pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by jay_bpm

Originally posted by Leesan

Perhaps I'm not the best person to find justification for Sahirs response to his obvious pain .Truth be told I may come across as a tad unsympathetic because of my own personal experiences because of my profession. I've seen it all, people ravaged by war,famine,extreme poverty, human trafficking, child soldiers, child bondage ,you name it. A few years ago I can never forget the pain in the eyes of several little boys, bonded out to pick cocoa on East African plantations,they hadn't seen their parents in over 3 years!! I could never eat a chocolate with the same relish again. And that's one of the less traumatic stories.

From my perspective, I still think a selfish,greedy, cheating, evil 22year old wife does not justify the intense levels of a deep dark,tormented,obsessive character of a 30+(?)  Sahir, and 7 years after such wife has been in a coma. All I'm saying is I hope there's something more to this other than trying to prove a point to a demanding wife.Imho,his response to his personal situation is a bit excessive, unless there's much more to be revealed later.  Self flagellation and self mutilation are signs of a definite psychological disorder and need professional  therapeutic intervention . I'll be the first to eat humble pie if it the truth turns out to be more devastating. Lets wait and watch! 
Oh I am not even saying want justification for his character, I want an explanation ! In my profession too I don't get too attached and dealing with suicide and once even homicidal ideation is fine by me LOL All I say is just another day at work !!

I too agree that saying wife cheated on him is too small of a thing for such dark, ddevastatedand tormented individual. I at least want to see that gal publicly having humiliated Sahir for the eprson he was. I think I said it before, good start may be zeenat having thrown that black coffee and burned toast on Sahir's face !! I know sounds bad but well I need to see it to say yes Sahir makes sense LOL

Self mutilation suggest borderline traits if not full blown disorder. Hence I mentioned the lack of self-worth in some aspect. I fear makers may not fully give such explanation but guess wishful thinking by me !
And I certainly not saying ur pov is wrong, no just trying to join discussion ! Tongue

I hear you! We're told from the start we can't be "bleeding heart liberals" ( though I'm very much a liberal in my views!)  or else we can't get the job done. Resilience and pragmatism are the order of the day, there's just so much disappointment to deal with. No matter how hard you try there's always this person or child that haunts you for a long time. Sigh! It goes with the territory .

Even the dramatic coffee/toast scene won't quite do it for me Wink, I think I've seen too much really, so that scene would certainly affect Sahir's psyche but render him unable to heal and grow for 7 long years due to harsh insults? Not feeling it mate! LOL  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, of course it does,but just not enough of a good reason to stunt someone's personal growth for 7 years IMO. My heart can't bleed for him in this case!! Tongue Hope you get your wish though! Smile

Nice chatting with you, off to dinner/ celebrations...cheers

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habsjay_bpm

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Posted: 31 December 2014 at 6:00pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Leesan


I hear you! We're told from the start we can't be "bleeding heart liberals" ( though I'm very much a liberal in my views!)  or else we can't get the job done. Resilience and pragmatism are the order of the day, there's just so much disappointment to deal with. No matter how hard you try there's always this person or child that haunts you for a long time. Sigh! It goes with the territory .

Even the dramatic coffee/toast scene won't quite do it for me Wink, I think I've seen too much really, so that scene would certainly affect Sahir's psyche but render him unable to heal and grow for 7 long years due to harsh insults? Not feeling it mate! LOL  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, of course it does,but just not enough of a good reason to stunt someone's personal growth for 7 years IMO. My heart can't bleed for him in this case!! Tongue Hope you get your wish though! Smile

Nice chatting with you, off to dinner/ celebrations...cheers
well as much as we try, some things do stick with us ! I sure have lost some nights sleep!

I said it can start with coffee and toast LOL If I pen down to what extent I want to see him in agony ppl here will think I am psychopath Evil Smile LOL 
But then him holding on to whole issue will also depend on what kind of person he was, how where his attachment schema so to speak. If individual was truly naive and valued words in very sensitive manner, then may be. As far as my wish, well it is an Indian daily soap so I will stay in reality LOL 
yes dinner time for me too and looking forward to long weekend !

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