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The Devil's Advocate:Cabir/Mukti vs Alya (Page 2)

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Posted: 26 December 2014 at 9:05am | IP Logged
I'm so glad to see you here. Hug
Will be back later after watching the episode. 


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Posted: 26 December 2014 at 9:08am | IP Logged
Originally posted by charminggenie

It's not about forgiveness , because asking that from anyone is defeating the purpose of this word.
This is where Alya is wrong. She can ask for favour and advocate for her brother but to expect fab5 to let this be in the past is not right. But to her as a character forgiveness is everything, her brother probably used the term to play with her emotions all the time , this made her to forgive him for everything and still sort of maintain that bond . 

Now to your question - For Alya she has seen fab5 strip,humiliate and they did spread his video around the campus. So they kind of played around with Shahid too , whatever be the reason but the action was familiar to Alya which fab5 never took a moral responsibility.

So for her it's difficult to understand Cabir's point because she goes back to their own actions like with Shahid and thinks well we did the same so why is Bhai so non-redeemable even when Cabir played his own video joke on Harshad. Manik beat him up too. So action by action- she feels they all are the same. She cannot see the victim because as a group they never did , which is why the conflict arises. 

This is also because fab5 never kind of introspecting their actions earlier , there was never the guilt because they had a justification every single time.

That is why in her head Alya doesn't think too much about the impact Harshad's video had on Cabir. Because these kids have never thought about the victims , that guilt was never there. Hence she is finding difficult to understand his point. Also the anger, the disappointment is clouding her head. 


Genie, I can stay away from IF but I cant stop my mind from questioning and asking answers.
Again I have no problem with Alya's expectations after all when it is all said and done, blood is thicker than water and unless we are put in a position like her, its easy to pass judgement on her. 

For me, the question is with us as the audience, I feel like a lot of us sympathise with Alya but what if the crime was attempted rape, would our reaction be different? 

For a gay person, this could be equivalent to attempted rape, the helplessness, the shaming, the pain etc. My point being that its easier for us to understand what an attempted rape means to a woman as opposed to what this assault and shaming means to Cabir.


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rubys07

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Posted: 26 December 2014 at 9:22am | IP Logged
Oh as a viewer, CC- what they did to Shahid was also a crime right ? That was a form of sexual offence too? The buck should have stopped right then and there. We understood that because we looked from the POV of characters not as a viewer . 
outing someone is a moral offence , unfortunately it's not a legal one. We have Perez Hilton, other zillion magazines doing the same everyday. We buy it , read it and discuss, become party to this moral shame but is it rape? Thats debatable. Morally Harshad is guilty of it but can this be a factor for his jailtime- Nope. Society defines rape differently, not just for gays but for every individual.


Edited by charminggenie - 26 December 2014 at 9:25am
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Posted: 26 December 2014 at 9:26am | IP Logged
Originally posted by charminggenie

Oh as a viewer, CC- what they did to Shahid was also a crime right ? That was a form of sexual offence too? The buck should have stopped right then and there. We understood that because we looked from the POV of characters not as a viewer . 

But if it was Mukti's attempted rape, would we have seen it different? We the audience for this show I surmise are majority female and heterosexual, so does our bias incline more towards sympathising with crimes that are more against women and straight people?

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Posted: 26 December 2014 at 9:30am | IP Logged
Everyone else will reply to your posts soon.
I feel like a rockstar  with all the warm welcome

Just wanted to clarify to genie, this qustion was directed to the audience. I know for a fact that if it was an attempted rape on Mukti and there was forgiveness to be asked , I would be bearing cudgels, so this is part self-reflection, part understanding psychology.
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Posted: 26 December 2014 at 9:37am | IP Logged
@CC - I edited my reply to thew earlier post. 
As a viewer it depends if you see outing of a gay guy as rape or not. Remove the victim perspective too then. It becomes ambiguous , the society considers it as a moral offence not a crime- which is why media, gossip magazines thrive with such news. Did they not ran a chase against NPH trying ton out him for years, as shameful as it is , society doesn't see it as a crime, definitely not as a rape, more as floundering the privacy. 
The recently leaked explicit pictures of HW stars drew mixed reactions, while the action was panned, society refused to see it as rape. Infact J Law was dissed for the stating that. 

So like I said i the ball is in viewers court, then personal perceptions, moral compass works, or we look at the legal frame and define the crime under respective category. 

The debate is what comes under rape? From the present quoted definition outing someone's sexuality is not rape. It is strictly considered as a physical unwanted intrusion - so by that logic , it is very difficult to compare Cabir's situation with a rape on Mukti .  


Edited by charminggenie - 26 December 2014 at 10:09am

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Posted: 26 December 2014 at 9:45am | IP Logged
I will type a longer reply to this later but just wanted to point out that Cabir knew the risk he was running- Harshad did not spring it on him out of the blue. So the 'outing' here is definitely a case of blackmail for me, not anything akin to attempted rape, simply because Cabir consciously made tat choice, no matter how tough it was to choose for him. The physical assault on Cabir came after he played Harshad's video. Which puts in a different moral category altogether. 

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Posted: 26 December 2014 at 9:59am | IP Logged
Originally posted by AnomanderRake

Everyone else will reply to your posts soon.
I feel like a rockstar  with all the warm welcome

Just wanted to clarify to genie, this qustion was directed to the audience. I know for a fact that if it was an attempted rape on Mukti and there was forgiveness to be asked , I would be bearing cudgels, so this is part self-reflection, part understanding psychology.

Personally I feel that asking forgiveness from Cabir for Harshad or even just letting go is WRONG. I sympathise with Alya to a level because Harshad is her only family, but I'm not ready to justify her act of demanding forgiveness from Mukti or Cabir. Mukti is scarred for life. No matter what, she can't just undo the past with Harshad and the reckless roller coaster ride that her life has been since then. Her issue with Harshad is personal. With Cabir it's way more than that. Harshad did rape Cabir, metaphorically. Like you said, rape is never about sex, it is about Power, to demean the victim. Harshad did want to demean Cabir. Even if Harshad was truly repentant I don't think Cabir forgiving him is in anyway justified. Fab5 had sexually humiliated Shahid once, which is why I can never imagine Shahid actually forgiving Fab5. Just because Cabir is gay, doesn't mean forgiving would be easy for him. Forgiving Harshad, specially because Alya wants it,  should never be an option for him.

p.s. I love reading your posts. I'd thought of not commenting but I be slightly biased toward Cabira so kindly tolerate my rantEmbarrassed


Edited by rubys07 - 26 December 2014 at 9:58am

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