Kaisi Yeh Yaariaan


Kaisi Yeh Yaariaan
Kaisi Yeh Yaariaan

The Devil's Advocate:Cabir/Mukti vs Alya

Cat. IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 16 May 2012
Posts: 18365

Posted: 26 December 2014 at 8:19am | IP Logged
So I am on exile from IF until Monday but had to post this here today because its been playing on my mind since yesterday.
Alya wants Fab5 including Cabir and Mukti to forgive Harshad and take back their case against Harshad.
From her POV, she is right after all he is her last living blood relative and blood ties are hard to break no matter how horrible the other person is.

A lot of us can sympathise with her and yet I had this question running through my head.

What if  Harshad had attempted to rape Mukti, would we all be as sympathetic to Alya?

Would we still expect Mukti to forget and forgive and take back the case? 

If No, then where does the gravity of the crime stop? For Cabir, the humiliation, the saming, the beating, the breaking is equivalent to a rape, because ultimately rape is about Power and not Sex, its meant to demean the victim, meant to make her/him powerless and Harshad by doing what he did to Cabir had the same intent, to strip him of his power, to demean and make him powerless.

I am not taking sides here but this question came to me yesterday as I watched the show and I needed to play the Devil's advocate as always, understand both sides.

Some food for thought. 

Will reply on monday but this itch for a debate was just festering.

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charminggenie IF-Stunnerz

Joined: 28 December 2007
Posts: 27497

Posted: 26 December 2014 at 8:24am | IP Logged
Is that my Cat!! Nooo Stay woman, I be missing you like crazy. But right so you to give something that is sure to mindf**k us all. Don't go crazy this boxing day, eh!! And heard the skin is glowing thanks to the detox, sinners don't go green , k.

Alright , I be back for the real deal because this is a rubber that I need to stretch in my head! love!
charminggenie IF-Stunnerz

Joined: 28 December 2007
Posts: 27497

Posted: 26 December 2014 at 8:33am | IP Logged
It's not about forgiveness , because asking that from anyone is defeating the purpose of this word.
This is where Alya is wrong. She can ask for favour and advocate for her brother but to expect fab5 to let this be in the past is not right. But to her as a character forgiveness is everything, her brother probably used the term to play with her emotions all the time , this made her to forgive him for everything and still sort of maintain that bond . 

Now to your question - For Alya she has seen fab5 strip,humiliate and they did spread his video around the campus. So they kind of played around with Shahid too , whatever be the reason but the action was familiar to Alya which fab5 never took a moral responsibility.

So for her it's difficult to understand Cabir's point because she goes back to their own actions like with Shahid and thinks well we did the same so why is Bhai so non-redeemable even when Cabir played his own video joke on Harshad. Manik beat him up too. So action by action- she feels they all are the same. She cannot see the victim because as a group they never did , which is why the conflict arises. 

This is also because fab5 never kind of introspecting their actions earlier , there was never the guilt because they had a justification every single time.

That is why in her head Alya doesn't think too much about the impact Harshad's video had on Cabir. Because these kids have never thought about the victims , that guilt was never there. Hence she is finding difficult to understand his point. Also the anger, the disappointment is clouding her head. 

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lostmymusic. IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 29 September 2008
Posts: 24868

Posted: 26 December 2014 at 8:36am | IP Logged


I am effin' ecstatic seeing such awesome discussion going around the forum. Will get it back to all later at night! Eeeppss! So happy to see you back! <3

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medha16 IF-Rockerz

Joined: 20 September 2011
Posts: 5169

Posted: 26 December 2014 at 8:40am | IP Logged
Adhi Hug
This really calls some food for thought.
It's not about right or wrong in this case per say.
Whatever his faults might be, at the end of the day Harshad is the only living relative that Alya has got...somewhere deep inside she cares for him deeply and him being sent to jail was a reluctant decision on her part not exactly for the sole reason of him hurting Fab5 but also for a desire of seeing him redeemed...the others have given up on him but she hasn't, she can't, she shares blood ties with him and whatever else he might be, he too cares for her in his own twisted way. She can't give up on that hope of him changing for the better. Her emotional connect with her brother prevents her from seeing through the deception of Harshad, she of course can't see him suffering and she feels that as her friends the others should understand her position and spare Harshd for HER sake if not his. She has always chosen Fab5 over Harshad in the past and this time when she wants something in return for her unwavering loyalty, they outright refuse. She takes it as an ultimate betrayal from her friends.

Also, Cbir is not wrong on his part. He has lost everything as a result of the Harshad drama and is now facing cold reality. He has no money, no place to live, no family to support and no love to stand by. That one incident has changed his life forever. But Alya doesn't realize that. To her, the whole things seems like a tit-for-tat kinda thing. As genie said, Fab5 has always bullied ppl in the past without putting themselves in the shoes of the victim and Alya as a result doesn't see cabir or Manik as a victim but she sees the whole sequence of events as one party trying to one-up the other like thay have been doing since time immemorial. The only difference is that this time the wounds are too personal, they have hit home, destroyed many relationships and shattered many beliefs in the process to the ppl directly involved. Mukti and cabir have lost too much personally to actually see it in Alya's perspective and I believe Manik too wouldn't be so ambiguous regarding his stance if Nandini had been hurt badly. 

Nobody is wrong here. This is just a difference in opinion shared by the Fab5 due to various external factors like family loyalty, blood ties, personal tragedy and being hit where it hurts the most. They have reached an impasse of sorts and it would be interesting to see how each of them deal with this from hereon. 

As for the audience, I think it depends on how u look at it. From Alya's perspective, it seems reasonable that she ask such a favour and the audience can sympathize with her. If we look at it from Cabir's pov, whatever harshad has done seems unforgivable. And personally, I do think that ppl would not support the "forgiving Harshad"  thing if it was really a question of rape. The audience here is strictly female and all humans tend to react to things from their own experiences and perceptions. We as humans are still not sensitized to the feelings, emotions and the difficult lives that homosexuals have to live with on a daily basis but when it comes to rape, we can empathize as we are able to put ourselves in the shoes of the victim. Thus probably I think that a certain section of the audience would react to Mukti being raped in a different way than Cabir's isolation because of his sexuality. Mukti's rape would trigger a far stronger hatred for Harshad than what happened with Cabir. Also, I do think that some people too do like to think like Alya, if what Fab5 did in the past didn't call for a jail sentence then the same treatment should be meted out to Harshad for doing exactly the things the fab5 were infamous for. 

Edited by medha16 - 26 December 2014 at 9:27am

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Sexpot Goldie

Joined: 17 September 2014
Posts: 2392

Posted: 26 December 2014 at 8:43am | IP Logged
The forum is not the same without you bas
Adhi trust you to make such a "satanic" comeback. It's genius.
So many aspects and dilemmas to be explored and discussed.
(It's so sad that the guy playing Harshad's character was a lousy actor. Imagine our added dilemma if he had done the charming,vain, intelligent,promiscuous, manipulative person I.e sociopath with any skill this conflict would have been even more riveting)

There are many aspects to this post there is an ethical dilemma, social dilemma, "coming of age" dilemma, "karma is a bitch" dilemma and not to forget the compromise necessary to propel this story forwards. So for practical purposes it may be deemed necessary for Harshad to be released.

No two crimes are similar or comparable. The "Corpus delicti" which are the fundamental facts that prove a crime vs "Mens rea" which is intent or knowledge of criminal act are very difficult ethically to discuss. So to compare two separate crimes with similar outcomes would depend on whether the Corpus delicti had more validity than Mens rea and vice versa. 

 Alya is not troubled by either of these,she is acting in loco parentis and Harshad knows he can manipulate this to his benefit. Her justification is valid,clear and necessary because her brother is also her guardian and his crime is pardonable. We as an audience have to imagine ( bad acting) a sociopath and know he cannot be redeemed. But the people closest to a sociopath are the last to realise hence I cannot grudge Alya her blindside.

Cabir equally makes a valid point, his outing lead him to a lot of uncontrollable outcomes. Imagine his chagrin and desperation. His persecution is unquestionable and incomparable, he lost his " astitva" for a lack of better word. His sanity,his rebuild is based on Harshad's ignominy. I cannot grudge him that.

I don't know if that made sense. I'm overwhelmed with work but just can't resist forum.

Edited by annboleyn - 27 December 2014 at 7:07am

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diva82 IF-Rockerz

Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 9417

Posted: 26 December 2014 at 8:53am | IP Logged
Catty ur back!! Hug
BoxedIn IF-Dazzler

Joined: 06 June 2014
Posts: 4120

Posted: 26 December 2014 at 9:05am | IP Logged
I'm so glad to see you here. Hug
Will be back later after watching the episode. 

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