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Mahakumbh 1-4: The Quest for Immortality DT note pg 15 (Page 13)

sashashyam IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 25 December 2014 at 12:01am | IP Logged
My dear,

Thanks a lot for such an extensive response,  though by the end, I was not sure you liked or agreed with anything in  my post at all!Wink  I am sorry I could not respond sooner. My comments are in red.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by Calliope

Originally posted by sashashyam



That's a cardinal and not a bishop as far as Wikipedia go. The red dress is worn during choir and the ordinary / everyday dress of a cardinal is the black cassock with red sash and red buttons.

Now this is something that needed doing, correcting  my careless bloomer in assuming that the ceremonial dress in which I had always seen the Princes of the Church was their day to day uniform, so to speak. Mea culpa. Thanks a lot for setting me straight.
My apologies to all those here whom I misled with such blithe insouciance!

Patience with apparent plot holes:

Another was the question of why the kid does not seem to remember his mother and their family life all these 12 years. It is now clear that he does, and he sees his mother every night in his dreams. So we need to be patient and wait for seeming discrepancies, or at least some of them, to be sorted out in the script itself.

It's something that has been bothering me too. He has memories of his mother however its the memories of a four year old. I understand its Rudra we are talking about here who has impeccable memory, yet he never asks to search for them. 

Rudra seems to be a curiously passive child. Either that, or he is so introverted and shut away  in his own private world that he does not articulate any of his feelings, and it takes 12 years for him to come out with the kidnapping of his father. It can easily be like that with children traumatised at a very early age, like the Vijay of Zanjeer, who remembers only that horse on the killer's  watch chain.

The leit motif: the quest for immortality: Mahakumbh  is clearly a mytho-historical thriller, and how can we have one such without a Secret Society (caps intentional)? So we have one here as well, even if their proceedings at times resemble a Keystone Kops caperWink.

With very few exceptions, all these secret society/  organisation  tales are about the same in their basic concept, from Alexandre Dumas' Joseph Balsamo series about the Freemasons,  to Dan Brown and his Illuminati and now the one headed by our cold-eyed Polish Bishop,  whose menacing words are so much at odds with his outfit (He cannot be a  Cardinal, for they all wear crimson capes; his black cassock and red sash seem to indicate a bishop). And there is the Governing Board of the aforesaid  secret society,  with representation from every continent, Nice, very nice.

Doesn't that make more sense? Using faith as a tool for world domination where the religious leaders are a part of a secret society in itself? Imagine the world where a predominant population worships one or the other deity, follow a religious sect or a leader and form communities surrounding their faith. Amassing them against a propaganda becomes an easy task. We already have several examples of that today.

Not quite as simple as that, my dear. Yes, large masses can be organised and brainwashed to follow one religion or the other, including political religions like Communism, blindly, but then such mobilisation has to be against someone, the Other(s). So if you have the world population corralled into, say, 6/7 different groups owing allegiance to different faiths, they cannot be made to live peacefully with each  other. They will want to go to war against the other or the others.

Now if the leaders of the 6/7 sects are really a sort of secretly co-operative Board of Directors, they will then be in a quandary. Either they will have to fall in with the aggressive desires of their flock - and rest assured hardliners will mushroom within each group and try to outflank the leader by competitive warmongering - or they will have to fall by the wayside. No faith has ever lasted long as a tool of mass manipulation. For a while, yes, but not for long. 

Next, any self-respecting secret society has to strive  for world dominationWink,  and here  it is to be thru for the other human obsession, immortality.

Immortality is a human fascination - the one where humanity beats nature. Nature dictates that everything has a shelf life. Gods were given immortality because of their nature to transcend across generations over several eras and they couldn't be Gods unless they were immortal. They had to exist for the continuity of their existence - be it as an idea or an anthropomorphic entity. 

It beats me how they intend to rule the world by living endlessly, but that is clearly a cardinal principle of theirs that cannot be questioned, so let it pass. Moreover, the idea of living on and on and on, alone while the rest, including all whom you care for, die off around you, is a frightful prospect, but  the human obsession with eternal life persists. As Steve Jobs noted "Everyone wants to go to Heaven, but no one wants to die"!

Its a frightful prospect for those who care about such things. Assume I know something that you don't. And that my knowledge predates every other knowledge in existence. I know things that you can never imagine and the reality you think you are living in is actually a scam of the greatest scale. Assume if I know for a fact that humanity has been building up to a moment where it becomes quintessential for people with the knowledge to save the world. Its a frightful prospect indeed. Its a matter of accepting and questioning the reality we live in.

You are beginning to sound like the Wachowski brothers and their maddening Matrix series!Wink What you are saying here is that a Saviour or Saviours  might need to be immortal so as to be ready to tackle a future apocalypse when no one else can, and thus save mankind. Fair enough, though the Saviours would necessarily have to lead a terribly lonely existence, like the Overlords in Arthur  C. Clarke's fabulous Childhood's End. But it is nothing like that here. The Poland-based directorate of the secret society is not interested in saving mankind. They look  and sound more like the James Bond style organisations like SPECTRE, bent on ruthless world domination.

Ironically, those mortals who chased immortality (Trishanku, for example) - how did it end for him?

He became the victim of an ego tussle between Vishwamitra and Indra, but then again, he had a personal swarg  of his own  courtesy the former,so perhaps he was not so badly off after all!

So  our hero has to have the Garuda Chinna  on his back, so  that his identity as the Chosen One is self-evident, and the consequent mortal danger to him be damned!

I am rarely fan of this chosen one thing. It's like these Hollywood flicks where there is this one awesome dude who knows the exact solution to the problem that has a probability of materializing 0.00001% in real life. Its irritating to know that the fate of the world relies on just one person. Nature is smarter than that. I could excuse Harry Potter. I will definitely excuse Rudra.

It may be irritating, but the concept is age old and  seems to have an eternal shelf life, witness the wait for the Kalki avatar and for the Maitreya Buddha. Yes, Nature  is smarter and prefers to resolve such problem thru millennial evolution, but here we are not talking of such glacial adaptations. Even if not the whole world at one particular time, but the fate of large masses, and of large movements, has often depended, whether for good or for bad,  on just one person's vision and charisma - the Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, Dr. Martin Luther King, Hitler, or even the Ayatollah Khomeini.

His father Shivanand too has it on the back of his right hand, and goes about displaying it openly, for all his warnings to his wife that the one on Rudra's back should always be kept concealed. But he had to goof up like that, for if he had worn a glove,  how would he have been kidnapped by Balivesh's goons and shipped off to Poland as clandestine human cargo without benefit of  a Polish visa?

We have people rising from water. You talk about Visa? Boo. LOL people escaped communist Russia hidden inside milk vans and then inside shipping container to migrate to different parts of the world. It wont be surprising if they shipped him as cargo.

I think you have missed my opening disclaimer about my predilection for tongue in cheek satire, otherwise you would have had no need for all these solemn  rebuttals to a joke! Wink

Above al, l he is tormented by the question that surfaces in the haunting song about the kid Rudra  Main kaun hoon..  koyi to bataye!  The historian Wendy Doniger once compared Harry Potter to Karna from the Mahabharata and to boy Krishna,  in the sense that  all of them had half-hidden origins and great powers that surfaced over time.

It would be boring if Rudra came with a user manual, no? Karna - let's not get into that. I don't see the parallel nor do I find him on par with Krishna. Krishna - sure, the whole point of his avatar was to show miracles and powers day in and day out. Its practically written in bold large letters in the "book of how to write about heroes in a book or a TV series and make it a huge franchisee". Never give away all the secrets in one go otherwise the story would become predictable.  

I did not go into Karna either, though Wendy Doniger did, and I have said so in my post itself. He was no saviour of anyone. As for  Rudra, far from having a user manual, he does not even seem to understand himself. Which is fine by me.


Udiya Baba: Appealing but feckless: Ok, he  seems  at times full of ancient wisdom as he talks to the young Rudra, what with his Surdas bhajan and  his Agar, magar witticism. Plus he looks the part of a mentor and guide for the young. But I have a  several grouses against Udiya Baba (though not against Robin Das,  who plays him expertly)

The way in which the  he first takes the kid Rudra away from the mela site without even bothering to find out if his parent(s) is/are still around was highly irresponsible. Agreed, he is at first inclined to leave him to the police to look after, and he comes back for him only after something indefinable in the looks of the stoic little boy tugs at  heart. Still, any responsible person would have taken the child to the Lost and Found tent and let the Kumbh Mela management, which is geared for such things, deal with it.

Even worse was the way in which he casually decides to lug the teenage Rudra back to Prayag without a word to the woman on whom he dumped the responsibility of raising the kid for 12 long years. Or bothering about the boy's feelings,  or about the credibility of the so-called agency allegedly trying to unite lost kids with their parents. They could just as well have been a criminal gang trafficking in children. And why would the parents have taken 12 years to start looking for their lost kids?

One of the case of a convenient plot point. My guess is that he wrongly assumes Rudra's family is dead. He glances around, the boy is silent (for good reasons) and makes a quick decision. I think he mentions something about coming to know about a bunch of people who are searching for children and family who were lost in '89. Could be a sudden guilt thing or could be a responsible thing. Answers are definitely needed.

As I had noted in the opening segment about  seeming inconsistencies in the plot resolving themselves later, this point too has been explained now after a fashion.  I had noted in my post that "Agreed, he is at first inclined to leave him to the police to look after, and he comes back for him only after something indefinable in the looks of the stoic little boy tugs at  heart." It is now clear what that was. It was the memory of Bishu,  very likely the son whom Udiya Baba has lost, and who perhaps looked like the kid Rudra.

When I heard about the show, I thought it would be about a boy missing in Kumbh Mela - it was the most popular cheesy 70s cliche in Bollywood movies where family got separated. Yes, but again as I have noted,  one cannot get lost at the modern Kumbh Mela. This would have been a major loss for Bollywood scriptwriters, except that lost and found stories are now distinctly passe in Bollywood!

Shyamala B.Cowsik


Nice to see you :=)


Edited by sashashyam - 25 December 2014 at 12:07am

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Calliope

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Posted: 25 December 2014 at 12:18am | IP Logged
You are far too flattering, my dear. But thanks a million  all the same.

Unfortunately, my dear Charu, if I were  to write a candid account of the kind you want, my WL would go up to 80% and I would be left to commune only with the JA DT by PM!! That place is a minefield for me, I never know when I step into a briar patch!Wink

But you know, even in the current mess, there are very satisfying nuggets. In the whole of his confrontation with Salim after the latter refuses the crown of the waliyahat, and even more so in his face off with Jodha a little later, Rajat was in top form. I watched those sections three times,and did not tire of them at all.

Jodha looks lovelier than ever these days, but the coping stone of the show is Jalal. Salim was stripped down for the young girls to ooh and aah over, but he looked like the Before ad  for a body building  protein supplement!Wink And why could they not find a fresh young face  for Anarkali?

Here, of course, I revel in Maimuyi and the teenage Rudra for the present, and I hope there will more to look forward to.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by chitterati


Oh aunty...the dismal comedy ja has become!!! If possible, would absolutely love to read your take on when things started going really wrong for JA. although it's been discussed at great lengths...but there is just something about the wit, humour and unique perspective that you bring to your posts.

See that's the thing about being such a great writer...readers get too demanding ;-)


Originally posted by sashashyam

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">I agree 100%, Mandy dearest, and that is the
reason why I still watch JA regularly and will do so till the end. But it is
now stuck in the groove of a rebellious son and so many crossed wires. It is a
mess, and the younger lead pair are dismal.

The boy looks 26, not 16, and the CVs' idea that having Chetan clean shaven will make him look 19 is a joke! He looks every day of 35. And where were all these daughters when Salim was still in Agra at 9? The two elder ones look 16+, only Khannum could have been born after Salim was sent off 7 years ago.

They should have taken a leap of at least 12 years, if not more. Chronologically, even if Salim is only 16, Akbar would be 43, for he was 27 when Salim was born in 1569.

Shyamala

Originally posted by ghalibmirza

shyamala although MK is a good and a different show but i just cannot get over RT's brilliance!..although story of JA has been butchered our abba huzoor surprises us yet again with his brilliant performance..and today i was mesmerized by his middle aged voice modulation and mannerisms of a man in thirties and a father of a teenager..how i wish the look gets changed as well!

</font>



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Posted: 25 December 2014 at 1:18am | IP Logged
Originally posted by sashashyam

My dearest girl,

What an amazingly hatke interpretation of the goings on till now! Lovely.

Everything fits to a T, bar one not so minor reservation. Swami Balivesh is not heading any Order of the Phoenix. He heads  the Indian branch of the secret society headed by the Polish cardinal. They cooperate and are both working towards the same goal, of securing the amrit and the secret of  immortality so as to be able to rule the world. Let me repeat what I wrote in this post.

Remember that when those 2 thugs are looking for a man with the Garuda Chinna mark on him, at the 1989 Kumbh at Prayag? One of them asserts that as the Swami had said the man would be there, he would be there, and immediately thereafter, he spotted Shivanand.

So they capture Shivanand and presumably deliver him up to Swami Balivesh. But where does he end up? In Poland. So clearly the Swami has handed him over to the Polish gang, and he would do that only if he is part of the same secret society.

So the Swami does not want anything to happen to Rudra  for the next '12 years, when the Mahakumbh will come around again in 2013. He clearly tells Pandey to lay off Rudra, and states that after 12  years, he, the Swami, will locate and fetch Rudra.


Aunty, what if the thugs had overheard Swami Balivesh or his men and said that if the Swami said that he will be there, he will be...what if Swami was unaware of the Polish Voldemort and considers Shivanand dead in the blast and now is intent on protecting the boy...

Had he been hand in gloves with the Polish Voldemort, Rudra would have been captured and delivered to Poland right now...
Or 
It could be that Swami is the head of the Order of Trishul with his own devious cunning purposes, wanting the Sorcerer's stone for himself. 

But I don't think that he is the head of the Indian Branch of the International Society...

I only hope that the serial provides explanations for the happenings and not goof up in the name of pace and thrill or end abruptly without explanations like Yudh did.

This is where hp stands tall.Star Complete logic even in the world of magic. The only thing I didn't get there was why the time turners were not used to solve cases/trials.

 


Edited by Sandhya.A - 25 December 2014 at 1:20am

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Posted: 25 December 2014 at 1:26am | IP Logged
I do not think they need Rudra now, my dear girl. Later, when the actual Mahakumbh is here. They want the key to the secret now, which only Shivanand knows, not Rudra. So capturing Rudra now will not serve their purpose.

Yes, I too hope this will not be like the valarundha nari Yudh. But to be fair to them, I think they were banking on a second season, but Sony butchered the presentation (NO repeats for a 1030 pm show and no omnibuses either. How many repeats a day for this show? At least 5) and put paid to those plans and with it to all logic in the narrative. That was clear from the  number of loose ends, they were endless!

Shyamala Aunty


Originally posted by Sandhya.A



Aunty, what if the thugs had overheard Swami Balivesh or his men and said that if the Swami said that he will be there, he will be...what if Swami was unaware of the Polish Voldemort and considers Shivanand dead in the blast and now is intent on protecting the boy...You mean that the thugs were working for the Polish gang?..Mmm...

Had he been hand in gloves with the Polish Voldemort, Rudra would have been captured and delivered to Poland right now...
Or 
It could be that Swami is the head of the Order of Trishul with his own devious cunning purposes, wanting the Sorcerer's stone for himself. 

But I don't think that he is the head of the Indian Branch of the International Society...

I only hope that the serial provides explanations for the happenings and not goof up in the name of pace and thrill or end abruptly without explanations like Yudh did.

This is where hp stands tall.Star Complete logic even in the world of magic.

 


Originally posted by sashashyam

My dearest girl,

What an amazingly hatke interpretation of the goings on till now! Lovely.

Everything fits to a T, bar one not so minor reservation. Swami Balivesh is not heading any Order of the Phoenix. He heads  the Indian branch of the secret society headed by the Polish cardinal. They cooperate and are both working towards the same goal, of securing the amrit and the secret of  immortality so as to be able to rule the world. Let me repeat what I wrote in this post.

Remember that when those 2 thugs are looking for a man with the Garuda Chinna mark on him, at the 1989 Kumbh at Prayag? One of them asserts that as the Swami had said the man would be there, he would be there, and immediately thereafter, he spotted Shivanand.

So they capture Shivanand and presumably deliver him up to Swami Balivesh. But where does he end up? In Poland. So clearly the Swami has handed him over to the Polish gang, and he would do that only if he is part of the same secret society.

So the Swami does not want anything to happen to Rudra  for the next '12 years, when the Mahakumbh will come around again in 2013. He clearly tells Pandey to lay off Rudra, and states that after 12  years, he, the Swami, will locate and fetch Rudra.

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Posted: 25 December 2014 at 7:16am | IP Logged
I am happy Shyamala that you too end up discussing JA on MK forum...I too cant get over JA fever...LOL

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Posted: 25 December 2014 at 8:47am | IP Logged
Originally posted by elasingh

I am happy Shyamala that you too end up discussing JA on MK forum...I too cant get over JA fever...LOL
LOLCry


Edited by Sandhya.A - 25 December 2014 at 8:46am

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Posted: 25 December 2014 at 8:56am | IP Logged
Aunty
I was only imagining what expressions RT would have given today, had he played Salim, as he poured water over Kali's face...cliched scene but RT would have made it extra special...sigh...this Salim is PATHETIC.

Still watch MK only on retelecast...but not if this Salim is going to get more screen space. One bad actor can spoil the whole soup, esp if he is given more time.

The biggest plus of MK is all the chief characters so far have been portrayed by EXCELLENT actors who fit their respective roles to the T. So we can overlook script loopholes if any...



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Posted: 25 December 2014 at 6:12pm | IP Logged
Aunty...so happy to knw u also see MK..just read ur post n its SPOT ON...lookin forward to read ur analysis for this week epis..

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