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The Samudra Mathana Episode

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Surya_krsnbhakt

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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 10:32am | IP Logged
Previously I had posted this in the Hidden Meanings Thread, but no one saw it. So here it is:

So after the Samudra Manthan, there was a great war between Devas and asuras, right?
SO I was going thru the list of the demons and gods...

Demons include:  NamuciSambaraBana, Vipracitti, Ayomukha, Dvimurdha, Kalanabha, Praheti, Heti, Ilvala, Sakuni, Bhutasantapa, Vajradamshtra, VirocanaHayagriva, Sankusira, Kapila, Meghadundubhi, TarakaCakradrik, Sumbha, Nisumbha, Jambha, UtkalaArishta, Arishtanemi, Tripuradhipa, Maya, the sons of Puloma, the Kaleyas and Nivatakavacas.

This list includes Namuchi, Shambara, Hayagriva, Tarakasura (yes, our Takki), Shumbha, Nishumbha, Tripurasuras (the three sons of Takki), and others, and later on, Mahishasura.
The above asuras each have their own story right? Like, we always have heard like, one by one each asura does tapasya, conquers heaven, then gets defeated?

Well, this list includes all those individual asuras. And then the next list of devas fighting these asuras:
 Maharaja Bali fought with Indra, Karttikeya with TarakaVaruna with Heti, and Mitra with Praheti. Yamaraja fought with Kalanabha, Visvakarma with Maya DanavaTvashta with Sambara, and the sun-god with Virocana. The demigod Aparajita fought with Namuci, and the two Asvini-kumara brothers fought with Vrishaparva. The sun-god fought with the one hundred sons of Maharaja Bali, headed by Bana, and the moon-god fought with Rahu. The demigod controlling air fought with Puloma, and Sumbha and Nisumbha fought the supremely powerful material energy, Durgadevi, who is called Bhadra Kali. Lord Siva fought with Jambha, and Vibhavasu fought with Mahishasura. Ilvala, along with his brother Vatapi, fought the sons of Lord BrahmaDurmarsha fought with Cupid, the demon Utkala with the Matrika demigoddesses, Brihaspati with Sukracarya, and Sanaiscara with Narakasura. The Maruts fought Nivatakavaca, the Vasus fought the Kalakeya demons, the Visvedeva demigods fought the Pauloma demons, and the Rudras fought the Krodhavasa demons, who were victims of anger.

So, I thought, there can be two possibilities:
1. The war after Samudra Mathana was a very long one and each asura fought one after the other.
2. Though the story of each asura is dealt with separately, all of tem fought in the same war.

So, what do you all think? Which can be the most possible?


Edited by Surya_krsnbhakt - 17 September 2014 at 10:31am

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Surya_krsnbhakt

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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 10:34am | IP Logged
And this was posted in the DKDM D&D Thread:
Ok DOUBT!!
So in Bhagavatam (the problem mostly arises from this Purana ain't it?Wink)
So in Bhagavatam, when Sati talks with Shiva about the Daksha Yagya and why she wants to go, she calls Mahadev, "Shitikantha". This has been translated as Poison-throated one. So,

1. Does that mean that Samudra Mathana happened during Sati's period, not Parvati's?
2. If not, does it refer to that Shiva-Vishnu fight during the Sati-Rahasya track?

Also, When Lord Shiva asks Devi's permission to drink poison, the words used are:
Sarva Bhuta Suhrt Deva Idam Aaha Satim Priyam.

And later on when Sati praises Shiva:
Praja Dakshayani Brahma Vaikunthas Cha Sashamsire.


Edited by Surya_krsnbhakt - 17 September 2014 at 11:53am

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rsnarula67.Vrish.Radhikerani

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Posted: 18 September 2014 at 4:21am | IP Logged
OMG, I Didn't Know About The Existence Of Half The Demons !!! God !! You Maybe Right ! I Never Thought In Such A Manner !!

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Surya_krsnbhakt

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Posted: 18 September 2014 at 10:55am | IP Logged
Ok this is not related to Samudra Mathana, but in Bhagavatam, when Vidura is listening to the Daksa Yagya story from Maitreya, at the start of Kaliyuga, Maitreya says:
Evam Dakshayani hitva Sati Purva kalebaram
Jagnye Himavath Kshetre Menayam Iti Sushruma.

Meaning Is, after giving up the body of Dakshayani, Devi Sati accepted the new body as Himavan's daughter, born from Mena.
The bolded word is Sushruma, which means, "I have heard."
Now, why should a great Rishi like Maitreya "hear" about the birth of Goddess Parvati?
Srila Prabhupada adds "from authoritative sources". So does that mean, Maitreya didn't know himself about the birth of Parvati, or is that just a way of speech?

Plus, Sati's story was in Svayambhuva Manvantara, while Maitreya is narrating in Vaivasvata manvantara!

... Which begs the question:
Samudra Mathana happened in the Cakshusha Manvantara, which is five Manus after Svayambhuva. So...


Edited by Surya_krsnbhakt - 19 September 2014 at 5:18am

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rsnarula67Radhikerani

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Posted: 21 September 2014 at 3:18am | IP Logged
Really Confusing !!

Surya_krsnbhakt

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Posted: 21 September 2014 at 3:57am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Radhikerani

Really Confusing !!
True!

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.Vrish.

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Posted: 24 September 2014 at 8:15pm | IP Logged
Surya, which sources were you citing for the above?  The Vishnu purana or the Shiva puranas?

I think it's really odd for Bali - the grandson of Prahlad - to have been the asura ruler then, if his grandfather Prahlad came much later, during the Narasimha avatar.  If one claims that the avatars ain't chronologically listed, then how does he make an appearance again in Vamana avatar?  Also, in Kurma avatar, Vishnu & the Devas massacred the asuras after cheating them of the amrit: how could Bali have been there?  Also, if Virochana is there to fight Surya dev, how is his son the king?

My conclusion: it must have been a different Bali, not Prahlad's Bali.  Also, all the devasura battles you listed would have taken place in different eras within Satya Yuga, and not all connected w/ the samudra manthan.  

Nor do I think it was the same war.  Maybe the same genre of wars - Devasura sangram - just like you had several Anglo-French wars, or several Mughal-Rajput wars or Mughal-Maratha wars

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rsnarula67Radhikerani

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Posted: 24 September 2014 at 9:57pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Surya, which sources were you citing for the above?  The Vishnu purana or the Shiva puranas?

I think it's really odd for Bali - the grandson of Prahlad - to have been the asura ruler then, if his grandfather Prahlad came much later, during the Narasimha avatar.  If one claims that the avatars ain't chronologically listed, then how does he make an appearance again in Vamana avatar?  Also, in Kurma avatar, Vishnu & the Devas massacred the asuras after cheating them of the amrit: how could Bali have been there?  Also, if Virochana is there to fight Surya dev, how is his son the king?

My conclusion: it must have been a different Bali, not Prahlad's Bali.  Also, all the devasura battles you listed would have taken place in different eras within Satya Yuga, and not all connected w/ the samudra manthan.  

Nor do I think it was the same war.  Maybe the same genre of wars - Devasura sangram - just like you had several Anglo-French wars, or several Mughal-Rajput wars or Mughal-Maratha wars
My source is Bhagavatam.
And it is the same Bali, I don't know how, but he is referred to as "Vairochani" - The son of Virochana.
Ya, I believe that the avatars are not chronologically listed. According to me, the order is Matsya Varaha, Narasimha, Kurma, another Matsya, Vamana, and then the usual.

And your conclusion that they must have taken place at different times. That would be the case if they were listed generally. But here, it is specifically mentioned in the battle after the Samudra Manthan.

Also, after the Devas and Vishnu massacred the asuras, Shukracharya sat and brought everyone back to life. So the battle was actually time waste.LOL

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