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Doubts & Discussions about HP book Series

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Quixotic5

Goldie

Quixotic5

Joined: 30 March 2014

Posts: 2047

Posted: 05 September 2014 at 12:40am | IP Logged
Ok now I will admit that i have made a similar thread before ( the link to which is provided towards the end of this post) but there are certain things that still bug me a lot regarding our beloved HP world & weren't included in the previous thread , so i thought of making this one ( Twila & Jolly did suggest it in the previous thread itself when the discussion there went off-track but anyways better late than never )...please go through the following :- 
1.I find the whole Judiciary System in the HP world , a bit of a joke really.. if u think about it, there isn't any need for a trial wherein they ask questions to the convicted & base the judgement upon answers & findings like us muggles..i mean in a world where there are things like "Truth telling potion", "Occlumency or Legelimency" , "Pansive to witness memories of the event" & what not, is it really THAT difficult to uncover the truth ????!!!... take the convicted death eaters after Voldy's first fall for example, some made an excuse that they were under the imperious curse & escaped Azkaban, how on earth was that even made possible?.. is it really THAT difficult for the magical folks to tell the truth from lies?..another example would be Harry's trial in OoTP !..Dead..i find it comical that even Dumbledore had to enter the trial with witnesses & all.. it actually should have been just a matter of seconds.. one more example would be, Serius Black's truth by the end of third book.. Dumbledore said that words of three thirteen year old students wouldnt be enough to convince anyone..again a poor excuse..this matter too could have been laid to rest sooner than later.. 

2.One more thing that I never understood is how come Dumbledore appointed a fraud like Lockhart as the Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher for his students ?..Dead .. again, it will be a poor excuse to say that Dumbledore wasnt able to find a teacher for this position so he hired a fraud LOL or Dumbledore wasnt aware of Lockhart's fraudulent activities bcoz if that is the case(which is highly unlikely since Dumbledore has a Knack to see through a person like an x-ray vision & it isnt easy to fool Dumbledore, Tom Riddle at Hogwarts is the best example to support this argument) then it means Dumbledore as Headmaster failed to do his research before hiring the fraud ..

3.Another major loophole was the Time-Turner which JKR herself admitted to, so it can be excused, but only upto certain extent.. she said that she got rid of time turners step by step & finally destroyed all of them in 5th book..but what about the events that took place before OoTP.. the time turners were very much present then & could have been used for various purposes..

4.Last but not the least, its time for my FRUSTRATION WITH DUMBLEDORE LOL( link- http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4009345  ).. why did he leave the unnecessary codes & puzzles for the three kids ??!!.. and i am strictly talking about Hallows & not Horcruxes..Dumbledore already told Harry everything he knew about Horcruxes but he hid the information about Hallows (& he knew EVERYTHING about Hallows)..he left it for Hermoine to decode the unnecessary puzzle who herself wasnt sure about it..Dumbledore's excuse was that "he feared that Harry's hot head might dominate his pure heart" but then if that is the case then y leave the unnecessary puzzles at all??..these puzzles were really more time consuming & distracting for the three teenagers who were fighting to save the world.. so far, the only justification put forth by supporters of Dumbledore is that he wanted Harry to prove his worth like always, he wanted Harry to live up to his title of Chosen one, which according me is a really really poor excuse..Harry had already proved his worth & loyalty on countless occasions & no more proving was required,it was the time to assist the three kids every which way possible & not the time for taking unnecessary tests..moreover,lets not forget that while the leading trio were heavily invested in saving the world at the age of just 17, Dumbledore at that age or around that age was obsessed with Deathly Hallows, so what right did he have to test the poor kids who had already proved their worth & loyalty countless times? 

Now i would like to know the opinions of the fellow Potterheads regarding the same..if you want to present a counter argument to my opinions or add something more, i would very much appreciate it, Thank You !..Smile

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Cutecj

Goldie

Cutecj

Joined: 25 May 2012

Posts: 2018

Posted: 05 September 2014 at 6:41am | IP Logged
Okay for the judicial i think they need 'strong witness'because a memory can be tampered with and yes one can make it hard to sort the fraud from the real when an imperious curse is performed by a strong wizard/witch
As for the Hallows i thing dumbledore left the task to Hermione because the three hallows together can be powerful and dangerous so she would choose very wisely and it would even stop any temptations from Harry.

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Quixotic5

Cutecj

Goldie

Cutecj

Joined: 25 May 2012

Posts: 2018

Posted: 05 September 2014 at 6:55am | IP Logged
Big smileOkay so here is my take;
For the judicial part i believe the panel need a 'strong witness' hence a person or some strong evidence that can be brought forward to prove one guilty or not. This is because a memory can be tapped into and altered and the very strong imperious curse can be hard to know or unravel. The potions well maybe the ingredients may be very rare to find and need lots of skills(we know potions is not a child's play) and lots of things have to be taken into account like time and earth's phase or things like that.

For the Hallows i didn't think it was a test but a precaution that Dumbledore took to keep Harry from acting or committing an act  that might hinder the main goal(Horcruxes). We all know that the Hallows together can be extyremely powerful and that it was almost an evil path for Dumbledore but he stopped before it was late(For the greater GOOD??) Hence he did't wan't Harry's mind to be diverted and he loose himself as he always longed to be with his family but indstead at the right time he can look to them for strength. Do remember that all the Hallows were in possession ofHarry even before Hermione could figure it out and Harry only used them at the right time.

But then this world was created by J.K.R. and only she has the answers to these questions.
Big smileBig smile

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Quixotic5

Cutecj

Goldie

Cutecj

Joined: 25 May 2012

Posts: 2018

Posted: 05 September 2014 at 6:57am | IP Logged
oops seems like i double posted. the second one is what i actually think i explained properly
Plus i am first to post!!!PartyDancing

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Quixotic5

Quixotic5

Goldie

Quixotic5

Joined: 30 March 2014

Posts: 2047

Posted: 05 September 2014 at 7:25am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Cutecj

Okay for the judicial i think they need 'strong witness'because a memory can be tampered with and yes one can make it hard to sort the fraud from the real when an imperious curse is performed by a strong wizard/witch..I would very much like to know ur evidence for this claim?..if there are instances in the book that support this argument, please let me know..as for the memories, yes they can be tampered with, but it leaves its marks , so its very easy to detect faulty memories,so far there has been nothing in the book that says otherwise ( Slughorn's memory being the best example here).. as for the "imperious curse" i dont understand how it could be hard to detect frauds even if the curse is performed by a strong dark wizard ?.. ur evidence for the claim?.. the best example here would be Tom Riddle modifying his uncle's memory ( i think his name is Morphin) (& also Bertha Jorkins)..but then again the Ministry never bothered to use such tactics on him (or anyone else) due to his history & clear confession..Dumbledore did & he found out the truth ( yes Dumbledore was a powerful wizard).. However, i think if the Ministry were to use such tactics, it would probably have trained & expertly qualified "Legiliments or Occuluments" for this task , just like they have Aurors but thing is such tactics were never incorporated in the judiciary system..and it remains a mystery as to why it wasnt ?.. and what about the "the truth telling potion"?.. i agree that if the person is under imperious curse, he or she will only say what the person believes to be the truth but even if thats the case, they could have come up with a defined judiciary process where they first determine whether the person is under the imperious curse or not & then proceed with potion..but ofcourse that is only for more serious crimes, what about Harry's trial in OoTP?..it could have easily ended within matter of seconds since it all came down to whether Harry is lying about the dementors or not?..during the trial , I was half expecting Dumbledore to say " Well if that is the case Cornelious, why dont you use Veritaserum on the boy & I am pretty sure Harry would be only too happy to cooperate ?".. the trial would have ended there itself..
As for the Hallows i thing dumbledore left the task to Hermione because the three hallows together can be powerful and dangerous so she would choose very wisely and it would even stop any temptations from Harry.Which raises the question, why did Dumbledore think that Hermoine would be able to persuade Harry better than himself?..its even more puzzling since Hermoine herself was clueless about the Hallows..since Dumbledore had firsthand experience with the Hallows, who do you think was better suited to guide Harry?..Dumbledore or Hermoine?..now the next possible excuse would be Dumbledore ran out of time otherwise he would have explained it himself..i beg to differ, i do agree that Dumbledore ran out of time during Horcrux mission but then again he told Harry everything he knew about Horcruxes anyways but what about Hallows?.. he never uttered a single word about it to Harry instead he found time to leave behind useless puzzles.. the three kids were already burdened enough with the task of saving the world without extra helpings from Dumbledore..

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Cutecj

Quixotic5

Goldie

Quixotic5

Joined: 30 March 2014

Posts: 2047

Posted: 05 September 2014 at 7:45am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Cutecj

Big smileOkay so here is my take;
For the judicial part i believe the panel need a 'strong witness' hence a person or some strong evidence that can be brought forward to prove one guilty or not. This is because a memory can be tapped into and altered and the very strong imperious curse can be hard to know or unravel. The potions well maybe the ingredients may be very rare to find and need lots of skills(we know potions is not a child's play) and lots of things have to be taken into account like time and earth's phase or things like that.
I think i have already presented my counter argument here in the previous post.. nobody said that detecting frauds or imperious curse is an easy task, just as fighting dark forces isnt easy, but the ministry still has Aurors,dont they ?.. as for detecting frauds & imperious curse they could have had a separate department for crime investigation which consists of trained & expert "occuluments or legliments".. but the thing is , such tactics were never used & it wasnt explained properly in the books as to y such practices were absent during crime investigation.. but that was only about serious crimes..for petty crimes, i believe "Veritaserum" would have been more than enough.. 

For the Hallows i didn't think it was a test but a precaution that Dumbledore took to keep Harry from acting or committing an act  that might hinder the main goal(Horcruxes). We all know that the Hallows together can be extyremely powerful and that it was almost an evil path for Dumbledore but he stopped before it was late(For the greater GOOD??) Hence he did't wan't Harry's mind to be diverted and he loose himself as he always longed to be with his family but indstead at the right time he can look to them for strength. Do remember that all the Hallows were in possession ofHarry even before Hermione could figure it out and Harry only used them at the right time.
I have presented my counter argument here as well, please check the previous post .. Hermoine was ill-equipped to guide Harry, Dumbledore on the other hand could have done a better job in guiding Harry himself since he had firsthand experience with Hallows instead he left it all those useless puzzles & awful lot of chances & probabilities.. 

But then this world was created by J.K.R. and only she has the answers to these questions.
Big smileBig smile
Well thats true.. and tell you what, she did answer these questions vaguely as she gets regularly bombarded with such questions..she did confess about the loophole created by timeturners & provided an explanation to it as mentioned in the topic post.. about Veritaserum too, i think i read somewhere that its akin to Polygraph tests (i am not sure about it though,it could a false interview), the results are not entirely reliable if the convict exercises enough will power to overcome the effects of the potion..but again it remains doubtful bcoz i dont think Voldy's most loyal servent Barty Crouch Jr. lacked enough will power to overcome the effects of the potion..but even so, Polygraph tests are still  used in our world, arent they?..so y not use Veritaserum with proper precautions & analysis techniques similarly?

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Cutecj

Cutecj

Goldie

Cutecj

Joined: 25 May 2012

Posts: 2018

Posted: 06 September 2014 at 10:57am | IP Logged
Let me think on it then get back

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Quixotic5

ExpectoPatronum

IF-Dazzler

ExpectoPatronum

Joined: 20 December 2010

Posts: 4887

Posted: 07 September 2014 at 12:31am | IP Logged
I'd like to add another doubt!
According to the books Harry lost his parents on Halloweens' night and the next day there were owls sighted everywhere during daytime, but Hagrid gets the baby Harry the night after Halloween-which is almost 24+ hours from the time of Voldemort's attack!!!
any explanations as to where Hagrid was all these hours???

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