Suryadeva, Rishi Durvasa and abandonment - what should they have done? - Page 2

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Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
The topic is about kunti, actually more about durvasa and suryadevas options and choices.
Not about SP kunti, keep the difference in mind while commenting.The glorification and defaming of the characters in the show has nothing to do with the topic.
Discuss these topics in CVs story distortion thread.
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Kunti being the mother was her secret, suryadeva, had no right to reveal the identity of the mother.

But no one was forcing him to keep quiet about the identity of the father.He could have claimed his son when he was being humiliated in public while not revealing who the mother was.
Sabhayata thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
@Medha hmmm so you are saying that suryadev could have told him he is the father but not revealed the mother.It makes sense but he didnt do it so what could be the reason?
 
I guess there arent a lot of mantras through which a human can have children with god's there would be very few and kunti was only lady at that time that we know of who had such a mantra so even if suryadev wouldnt have revealed her identity kunti would have been the obvious answer wouldnt she?
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: medha00

Kunti is always judged because she abandoned her first born due to fear, impulse and other things that define adolescence.

But she had three sons and two step sons that she raised well; they all grew up to be fine young men. As much as I don't like her, I will give it to her as a mother. Whatever kind of human she was, whatever kind of a woman she was is not pertinent to the fact that she was a fine mother. Her sons stayed away from greed, jealousy etc. and she tried and was successful in keeping them away from it too. They were raised in a way that they were never not satisfied with whatever they had.

So why does she get targeted on the basis of a mistake she made as a teenager, teen pregnancy is frowned upon even today, especially if the girl is unmarried (and not just in India but other countries too),which results in so many atrocities, not just against the female but also the child too. New born dumped in garbage? Abortions? New born killed?

But kunti is quick to be judged. "She could have done this; she could have done that, so many options, so many alternatives blah blah."

(everyone who did not made mistakes as a youth, throw a stone at her)

What about the more mature and wiser personalities involved? Rishi Durvasa and Suryadeva, both are to be held accountable alongside her, if not more. Durvasa was a famous sage, quite elderly and intelligent and Suryadeva was, well Surydeva ...They both were more experienced, more aged than a teenage girl. They should have known better. Give a brand new Iphone 5 to a youth and tell them to not use it, see how it functions.

So what steps could these two have taken to avert the disaster?

Couldn't durvasa give the Mantra to her Guardian? Warn her that don't use it till you are ready to become a mother? Wait till marriage? What about Suryadeva?

 

Keep in mind the Moderators Note here while making a comment :



Karna never knew that Kunti was his mother, wasn't interested or curious about it, and had no issues w/ being the son of Adiratha/Radha.

I don't think you get why Kunti gets all the opprobrium.  It's well deserved, and here's why
  • After the tournament, even if she was at a loss of what to do then, she had ample opportunities to fix things: she was no longer a kid.  It's not like she never had any private moments w/ her sons.  She could have sent for Karna privately and revealed to him the circumstances that she had to abandon him, and request him not to make enemies of her other sons.  In lieu of that, she could have offered him a respectable status within the family, at least as her acknowledged son, if not Pandu's.  Similarly, she could also have summoned Pandu's 5 sons and told them who Karna really was, and that they should apologize to him.  At that stage, Karna was not in Duryodhan's debt - he could easily have thanked him, returned Anga, and join Yudisthir in his attempts to bridge the gap b/w the Pandavas & Kauravas
  • Since she made no attempts to do that, she had no business approaching him at all.  The only reason she approached him b4 the war was one of 2 possibilities, depending on how charitably one wants to look at her
    • She wanted to save her other 5 sons from him, knowing that he was the only one capable of killing them.  She didn't care about him at all
      • She wanted to demoralize him (like Krishna did) by revealing to him this secret (she didn't know that Krishna had already done it for her) so that while her other sons would fight him wholeheartedly, he'd fight them less willingly than he was to date
    • She wanted to give him his rightful part of Pandu's inheritance.
  • Since she had given him nothing throughout his life, approaching him like a beggar particularly reflects badly on her, given that in the war, every one else - all her bahus (except Chitrangada) had lost their sons, but she didn't lose any of hers, thanks to Karna's gift.  But she apparently had no issues w/ her grandsons getting killed - be they the Pandava sons, or Karna's.
The point that Karna sympathizers have is that if Kunti wanted Karna to recognize her as a mother, the least that he deserved from her was her caring about him.  But the truth is - notwithstanding all the serials - that she never did.  Given that fact, which is hard to contradict based on the evidence, Kunti had no business approaching Karna for anything.

Another thing -  as a kshatrani, Kunti knew that one of the duties of her sons was to fight & die in battle.  Far more innocent warriors than her sons, who might have had a bright future had they survived, died - Sveta, Uttar, Abhimanyu, Iravana, Kshatradharma, et al.  So what was so special about her that all her sons had to be kept alive after the war, even if they lost each of their kids?  What sort of a grandmother was she?  Since her sons were kshatriyas, they ran the risk of dying in battle.  Did Draupadi, Subhadra, or anyone else approach the killers of their sons b4 the war begging them not to kill their sons?

It's true that people sympathize w/ Karna for being discarded as a newborn.  It's also true that he had loving parents in Adiratha & Radha.  But that would be relevant in today's society, not that era's.  It's the equivalent of a baby being born to a millionaire, being put up for adoption and adopted out to a family that can barely pay for his livelihood.  Let's say that that kid grows up and through his own genius becomes a tycoon that then competes w/ and puts his biological parent's company in the red.  Would the birth parents of that kid then have the right to go to him, reveal his original parentage and then beg him not to do a leveraged buyout of their disintegrating business empire?

Remember, Karna had to put up w/ being insulted as a sutaputra, not merely being called one.  He was denied knowledge of the Brahmashira even though it was given to Arjun, just on the basis of caste.  For those who think that he didn't have the right temperament, neither did Ashwatthama, but Drona gave it to the latter b'cos he was a Brahmin Dhritarashtra.  Honestly, does anybody believe that had Karna successfully remembered and used the Brahmashira against Arjun in a manner similarly to Ashwatthama, that he would have diverted it at the wombs of the Pandava womenfolk?  I for one don't for a minute, b'cos Karna was nowhere as vile as Ashwatthama, as Bheeshma & Drona apologists might like to believe.

Nonetheless, despite getting nothing from Kunti, Karna did the best he could from what he learnt from both Drona & Parashurama, and as a result, not only did he get Anga as a gift from Duryodhan, he also got Champa/Malini as a gift from Jarasandha.  So he was hardly complaining.  But one can blame Kunti for Karna not being eligible to even contest for Draupadi (she'd still have had the rights to choose if both Karna & Arjun had successfully won the competition).

In short, Kunti was not judged for merely abandoning Karna, that by itself would have been fine.  If you notice, nobody ever blames Vishwamitra & Menaka for abandoning Shakuntala.  What makes Kunti a real loser is her going back to that son that she abandoned and begging him to spare her other sons' lives.  As a kshatrani, she should have been willing to risk losing all her sons, as far more innocent women than her in the war did. 😡


P.S.  Re-reading your post, I recognize that you're trying to hold Durvasa & Surya-dev responsible for what happened.  But that's really giving Kunti a pass, which she didn't deserve.

Surya-dev couldn't do anything as long as Kunti wasn't willing to own up to paternity of Karna.  I generally despise Durvasa, but even he couldn't have blown her secret, w/o her permission.  Yeah, he could have promised her a boon  just b4 her marriage, or made the mantra conditional that it would only work post marriage.  But I don't see what Surya-dev could have done, given her unwillingness to fess  up about it to the world.

Yeah, Durvasa might have warned her against experimenting w/ the boon, while Suryadev - could devas just appear on earth and declare that _____ was their son?

Oh, and one more thing - Kunti knew from his armor and earrings who he was at the tournament itself.  The Pandavas knew him from b4 that @ Drona's gurukul, but didn't know that he was their half-brother.
Edited by .Vrish. - 10 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

ave is that if Kunti wanted Karna to recognize her as a mother, the least that he deserved from her was her caring about him.  But the truth is - notwithstanding all the serials - that she never did.  Given that fact, which is hard to contradict based on the evidence, Kunti had no business approaching Karna for anything.


I agree with much of your post, especially that Kunti shouldn't have asked Karna to spare the Pandavas' lives, but I don't agree with the above. As much as we may debate about certain actions of the characters, I don't think we'll ever know what went through their minds at each moment of their life. We honestly cannot say Kunti never cared for Karna. She was his birth mother, and no matter what she did, she probably did love him in her heart. She was faced with a dilemma to choose a side, and she chose the side that would benefit her sons through marriage. She chose the easier way out and we can question the merits of that, but I don't think we can say she never cared for him. Only Kunti can tell us that, or Lord Krishna.
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
The evidence is pretty obvious that Kunti didn't care about Karna as long as he was a threat to Arjun, even after he gave his vow.  Sorry, but asking Yudisthir to do his shradh after he was dead doesn't count!

One can judge Kunti by her actions and what she did - one doesn't have to read her fickle mind to figure her out.  The woman who shamelessly lived on @ Hastinapur after her bahu's insult, and  accompanied the king who allowed it to happen to the forest when his turn came, was a moral reprobate, even, in fact especially, by Dwapar Yuga standards. 😡

Anyway, staying a bit more on topic, naah, Kunti did actually grow up, even if she may have had the brains of a gnat (w/ apologies to gnats), so I don't blame either Durvasa or Surya-dev for not doing anything.
Edited by .Vrish. - 10 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

The evidence is pretty obvious that Kunti didn't care about Karna as long as he was a threat to Arjun, even after he gave his vow.  Sorry, but asking Yudisthir to do his shradh after he was dead doesn't count!

One can judge Kunti by her actions and what she did - one doesn't have to read her fickle mind to figure her out.  The woman who shamelessly lived on @ Hastinapur after her bahu's insult, and  accompanied the king who allowed it to happen to the forest when his turn came, was a moral reprobate, even, in fact especially, by Dwapar Yuga standards. 😡


Actions can tell us a lot about a person's personality, but they cannot tell us about a person's emotions. We can debate all day about Kunti's actions, but I stand by what I said. We don't have the right to decide who she loved or did not, because that's something only her heart knows. Sometimes people badly hurt the ones they love. It may be wrong and unjust, but it doesn't mean they don't love them. As far as emotions go, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Patrarekha thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Kunti not only abandoned her baby she flowed him in river if in modern day someone does this the baby will die for sure

don't we condemn those women even in modern day who abandon their child by endangering their lives?

what Menaka did was abandoned baby Shakuntala near Sage Kanwa's place making sure the baby will be brought up by a sage only and so will get respected life

if Kunti had abandoned baby near  such ashram then we can regard she had committed a mistake in teenage but what she did could cause Karna's death so at the first place Kunti committed a sin not mistake

and then the points Vrish said , she didn't ever try to redeem and let her sons fight with Karna , had she ever tried to bring Karna in her family even Kurukshetra could be avoided and her some young genius grandsons as  Abhimanyu , Iravan had been long-lived

and we don't see any instance from which we can find Kunti loved Karna
and if we don't have right to say whom she loved or not we don't have same right regarding Draupadi , as well so why then people be very sure? she loved all five husbands or love arjun more or hate anyone?we should agree to disagree there too

and about Suryadev and Durvasa they also were at fault but as pandava's fathers didn't interfere in their upbringing even they lost Pandu and faced turmoils in their lives same goes to Suryadev moreover if he had reveal the identity it would harm Kunti's dignity no God can do that knowingly and Durvasa was a sage who spends time in forest , human society norms are not for him and what will he do if a girl herself doesn't honour her virginity to experiment with such boon?

but i am not defending Suryadev and Durvasa  but that doesn't mean Kunti is less responsible , she is a sinner only , a selfish woman who was left in epic without punishment
Edited by Patrarekha - 10 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Kunti only set Karna afloat on the river because Surya Dev promised her he would protect the child and find him a good home. She did not endanger Karna's life without second thought. The child's biological father took over his responsibility until he could find a suitable family for him, and only after that assurance did Kunti set Karna afloat. She very much believed Surya Dev would take care of him. Surya Dev wasn't just a God, he was Karna's biological father so it's not at all unbelievable that he would take over responsibility for Karna until he found a good home.
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Patrarekha

I agree w/ everything else you  say, but on the abandoning thing, I'm willing to, like the TM, give Kunti the benefit of being a frightened teenager.  My point was that unlike most teenage moms, she had the benefit of knowing that her son survived, and the opportunity to give him at least some recognition so that he wouldn't get insulted.  

The thing I condemn her for is watching & tolerating him being repeatedly insulted and not saying a word to help him, and then approaching him like a beggar after events ran their course and it was too late to do anything (the vastraharan was the turning point beyond which no damage could be repaired)