Is Karvachauth wrong? - Page 4

Originally posted by: charminggenie

Aside from the health issues, how would it fair on the pockets of the dearest husbands, considering most look for some sort of reward for this gesture!

HAHA I am guessing the rewards will keep coming because the guys will keep working because they magically started to live longer now, all thanks to the reflection of the moon as viewed through a sieve :))

But seriously -

It's not the fasting which is objectionable. In fact, alternate-day fasting could help the body to detoxify, encourage fat oxidation, and reduce bad cholesterol.

It's not the praying which is objectionable. In fact, it could help the body to relax, reduce stress, and positively impact the mind

What is objectionable is the inequality in the underlying theme. Why is only the man's longevity important? Not that there is any kind of scientific evidence to this said longevity, not even remotely, but even if this festival is emblematic of the woman's desire, shouldn't the man then possess the same desire? Why make it optional for the man? IMO, unless there is a reciprocal fast by the man, it makes the festival rather sexist.


Edited by K.Universe. - 10 years ago

Myself a Christian so we dont have this in our Catholic religion,but I have heard about Karvachauth

Originally posted by: AishuHiBawari

I agree that women should be treated equal to men. But you can't go about bringing equality if you actively disrespect women for making certain choices that are theirs to make alone. Islam does not force a woman to wear a burkha. But if she chooses to, then she deserves as much respect as a woman who doesn't. And if women get boob jobs, then it is their business, not yours. If it makes them feel more confident about their appearance, then hats off to them! I am happy that they're happy. Why are you assuming that women choose to dress the way they dress so as to get men's attention. They don't! It's for their own satisfaction! And similarly, if a woman chooses to fast for her husband, which I take as a sign of total devotion and love, and i reiterate, then everyone else should respect her decision!

Fasting has deep roots in Hinduism. It is a way of distancing yourself from your gross body (sthool sharir), because we believe that we are souls incarnated into bodies, but not the physical body itself. And fasting is a way of getting rid of gluttony, one of the sinful traits that keeps you attached to worldly pleasures and illusion. Your mind shouldn't be focused on moha, money, food and sex, but instead on higher thoughts. That is why we fast. When a woman fasts for Karvachauth, she is making a statement that she prizes her husband and his long life, above the bodily want for food.

Plus, we can't pick and choose which woman is worthy of our respect, because they all are! If someone forces a woman to fast, or get a boob job, or anything else, then yes, that is wrong. But if it is her own decision, then she should be allowed to do what she wants. You're objectifying women because you think that they all either adhere to certain rules, or rebel against the society that sets these rules. But in my opinion, a woman should be allowed to do whatever she wants and respected for it.

And I am a woman myself, and this kind of just puts me off. I'm sorry.

Edited by joie de vivre - 10 years ago

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

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No denying that one should be conditioned' to do the right' things. But I don't see fasts or other rituals as right' or wrong'. There are many right' things in a relationship like faithfulness, respect, compromise, support, companionship and a whole lot more things that are reflected in everyday behavior. I never stated that people feel special without any effort. But right and wrong and goodness of a person is based on everyday general behavior - not merely by rituals.

 

Yes. Everything we do is conditioning in some way. And conditioning can be good, bad or neutral.

 

In my perspective

 

You will be a good husband/wife if you have a strong bond built on mutual trust, respect and compromise is good conditioning.

You will be a good wife if you fast and say prayers for your significant others is something I find borderline. A bit unfair and kind of illogical.

You can make yourself and your significant other feel loved and special through certain fasts and rituals if you wish to, is perhaps more palatable.

 

In the end an unfaithful or abusive spouse will be just that irrespective of any fasts or valentines day hooplas. A faithful, respectful spouse will always be one even if they don't keep fasts and forget a certain day.

                                                           

Originally posted by: joie de vivre

Like I said, some choices that women make are intrinsically misogynistic. They make FEEL that they are acting out of their own free will, but what they are really doing is acting like a turkey voting for Christmas. As a matter if fact, in patriarchal societies like ours, it's WOMEN themselves who prop up the patriarchy and partake in and entrench misogyny and gender inequality. Women can misogynistic themselves.

Not every choice is a feminist choice, and I can't respect certain choices women make. What you're saying is deeply patronising guff - that all women are worthy of respect be default of being a woman and all of their choices are equally valid. Nope. The choice of a woman to have a sex selective abortion is not one to be respected. Nor is the choice of a woman to treat her sons differently than her daughters, or deify her husband or derive her sense of self worth from his mere existence. That women choose to do this is neither here nor there; what's important is that these are touchstones of a patriarchal, woman-hating society. Apologists for this sort of rubbish are part of the problem. 

 
Edited by BirdieNumNum - 10 years ago

Originally posted by: joie de vivre

Like I said, some choices that women make are intrinsically misogynistic. They make FEEL that they are acting out of their own free will, but what they are really doing is acting like a turkey voting for Christmas. As a matter if fact, in patriarchal societies like ours, it's WOMEN themselves who prop up the patriarchy and partake in and entrench misogyny and gender inequality. Women can misogynistic themselves.

Not every choice is a feminist choice, and I can't respect certain choices women make. What you're saying is deeply patronising guff - that all women are worthy of respect be default of being a woman and all of their choices are equally valid. Nope. The choice of a woman to have a sex selective abortion is not one to be respected. Nor is the choice of a woman to treat her sons differently than her daughters, or deify her husband or derive her sense of self worth from his mere existence. That women choose to do this is neither here nor there; what's important is that these are touchstones of a patriarchal, woman-hating society. Apologists for this sort of rubbish are part of the problem. 

But do you see what you are doing here? You are saying that women should be like this, they should be like that. They should change their way of living just to make a point. You are creating rules for women, saying that they should do the opposite of what society expects them to do, and in that, you are imposing rules on them just like society is.

I am a feminist, and I believe that all women deserve respect regardless of what PERSONAL choices they make. Personal, as in, they are theirs to make alone. Whether or not a woman fasts doesn't affect anyone's life but hers, so it is HER choice. Selective abortion, raising her sons differently than her daughters, etc were NOT EVEN IN THE DISCUSSION. They don't relate to the topic at all. If she is selectively killing female babies, yes, that is wrong as hell. If she is treating her sons differently than her daughters, that is wrong too! But what she wears, whether she fasts, that doesn't affect anyone else, so how is that wrong? If she chooses to do it, then it's her business, not yours. In regards to the burkha: if a woman has the right to expose her body, she has the right to cover it. You cannot decide whether it is right or wrong.

Just because she chooses to fast, she chooses to wear a burkha, she chooses have a breast augmentation, that does not in any way mean that she is bowing down to patriarchy. There are so many different kinds of women out there! Open your eyes! And they should be able to make their own personal choices as long as they don't harm anyone else. And feminism seeks to impower women, regardless of whether they follow a certain faith or not. Karvachauth is a religious festival in which the woman fasts for the long life of a husband. You can say that there is inequality there, but it's not as if men don't fast for their wives. IN FACT, MANY MEN DO!

I think what the problem is that people keep making up rules for what a woman should do. Some say she should fast, some, like you, say that she shouldn't ever fast. But the idea behind feminism is that she should be able to do what she wants to do. Karvachauth is neither right nor wrong. It is simply a choice that should be left completely up to the woman who does it.
Edited by AishuHiBawari - 10 years ago

Originally posted by: joie de vivre

Like I said, some choices that women make are intrinsically misogynistic. They make FEEL that they are acting out of their own free will, but what they are really doing is acting like a turkey voting for Christmas. As a matter if fact, in patriarchal societies like ours, it's WOMEN themselves who prop up the patriarchy and partake in and entrench misogyny and gender inequality. Women can misogynistic themselves.

I think misogyny is too strong a word and is not applicable in this context. Inequality yes, but certainly not misogyny.

I followed the etymology of this festival and I don't see how a "hatred of women" or "sexual objectification of women" or "violence against women" led the then society to come up with this festival, unless you have factual evidence to the contrary, that some of us are not privy to.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

[Like i said before, i am open to rituals where it's the men going through the hardship.

But why invent new rituals when one can reciprocate on the very day of this festival?

Why not have a WIKI entry that reads something like this: "Karwa Chauth is a festival celebrated by Hindu men and women in which married men and women fast from sunrise to moonrise for the safety and longevity of their respective spouses"?

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

But why invent new rituals when one can reciprocate on the very day of this festival?

Why not have a WIKI entry that reads something like this: "Karwa Chauth is a festival celebrated by Hindu men and women in which married men and women fast from sunrise to moonrise for the safety and longevity of their respective spouses"?

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

You cant respect certain choices women make, such as KC, because they put the woman at discomfort. Sounds like a one-night stand, no commitment, no sacrifice, no hard work. Great women's lib stuff😆 

Edited by joie de vivre - 10 years ago