Debate Mansion

   

Are the Indian Muslims being targeted?? (Page 7)

Post Reply New Post

Page 7 of 26

raj5000

Moderator

raj5000

Joined: 01 January 2006

Posts: 11720

Posted: 08 July 2007 at 12:58am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by raj5000

Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by raj5000

Well, you got me writing strong views my self :)

One cann't make that statement for IM, without knowing the views of atleast 60% of majority. I understand there are no proofs hence we cannot comment on that. If any hindu is doing a wrong act based on religious blanket, I will and know people who will fight for it publically.

Topics ka kya hai... world doesn't stop by one person.Right mujh becharey ko maar key kya milega, unscheduled trips to shamshan and flower expense every year Embarrassed ...  but mukti from IF love would be something to think about .. lols.. 

kahey ki muktee Raj.  Yaad hai tum ney hee bola thha ki koi chaar saal ka batcha aa ker boley woh Raj ka reincarnation hai toh hum sab maan ley....kuchh aisa hee hogaLOL

jokes apart...no talking about death etc.  It is way to serious to be taken lightlySmile  Marey tumharey dushman...once you confirm that I am not one of themLOL

back on topic: 60% might feel what is happening is not right but even if 30% denounce these acts, they will elevate the whole community's image in public and discourage the bad elements big time!!!

What memory Clap do you maintain dairy / excel like me lolssss. Yup would come back. No, no one here can come close to dushman.. lols Love or am neutral but no dushmany.

Ma'am I don't understand how you came up with the numbers, any ways if that is true also with facts, if even 2 IM (whom I know) totally are verbal about such acts, won't buy generalizing IM's on the whole. How many people from other religions stand up against wrong doing by religious gurus in Public without selfish motives.

LOL just used your 60% bolded above and threw in 30% just for the heck of driving home the point.

LOL

my baby sitter is a hyderabadi muslim.  she personally told me that she does not approve of terrorism but is afraid to speak against it in their public gatherings in mosques or relatives or friends!!!

Only one, I have so many friends, practically spend 4-5 years with muslim community and make me say that.

as far as other religions, shiv sena is criticized for anything they do all the time in news papers etc.  no political motive there..

Disagreed! its only for political reasons. I for one being a hindu would definately not agree on some actions that don't make sense and are done in name of hindutava, (not to miss banning Valentine's day in mumbai).Similarly there are folks who without any poli reason are not happy with stuff done M leaders in the name of religion. Don't have testamonies but thats what I heard from folks I know, forces my POV's. 

.and they are not the terrorists...still people scrutenize and blow out of proportion every single thing they do in the name of hindutva.  even though we know that sena does a lot of constructive work too!!!  don't see many muslim cloumnist writing against terrorism so openly!!! all i see is whole bunch of muslims coming together and declaring the their religion comes before nation...so won't even sing vandey maatram as it praises thier janm bhoomi!!!  their leaders can denounce vandey matram publicly but not terrorism.

Shiv Sena is criticized

Again whole bunch, come on... that does mean all M's follow the trend. Can we get some numbers or poll or let people from Muslim origin say that this is correct statement. Might change my mind till then I don't buy it.

 

Dear Guest, Being an unregistered member you are missing out on participating in the lively discussions happening on the topic "Are the Indian Muslims being targeted?? (Page 7)" in Debate Mansion forum. In addition you lose out on the fun interactions with fellow members and other member exclusive features that India-Forums has to offer. Join India's most popular discussion portal on Indian Entertainment. It's FREE and registration is effortless so JOIN NOW!

chatbuster

IF-Rockerz

chatbuster

Deactivated on request

Joined: 13 January 2006

Posts: 7780

Posted: 08 July 2007 at 1:18am | IP Logged
Originally posted by raj5000

Originally posted by chatbuster

terrorism is something that is very strongly linked to muslim groups the world over these days. if we cant agree on that, maybe we wont ever.Wink

Are there more religious bond nations then M's. I mean are there more then one sikh / hindu nations world wide?

sorry, no idea what this meansSmile

 BTW how do you define terrorism, some community fighting for religious beliefs or is it cimilar to civil wars ?

how is this relevant to this topic? Confusedwe see buildings in mumbai blown up, parliament attacked, people getting killed in sarojini nagar market, we come across akshadarma temple killings, what should the government and the citizenry do? wait for someone to debate whether it is terrorism or someone fighting a civil war? shouldn't we just go and try to find the perpetrators without getting into all these semantics? Tongue

as for going after the paap and not the paapi's community, sure. good line. but how? could u provide practical pointers here?

Absolutely, check for physcologist behaviour patterns of individuals who can be potential threat to peace, not singling out M's. ALL am saying don't corner M's there are many more individuals belonging to differnet religion involved on disruputing peace. BTW  - mafia activity only related to M's? why not?

lol. so do we run these psychological tests all over india then? LOL ok, in an ideal world where money grows on trees, i am sure we can spend money on tests as well. but money does not grow on trees, does it? we do have scarce resources and limited time in which to disrupt terror cells, dont we? cant go around running unreliable tests and not target folks who might be crossing into our borders or fooling around insideTongue

next, if we go along with your argument, doesnt psychological testing also amount to profiling/ stereotyping? i mean is every mentally sick person a killer? so what should we do then? forget about the new idea you came up with?Wink

i am sure intelligence agencies would be very happy to learn techniques they might have overlooked. Tongue specifically, do u go after the paapi after the paap has been committed? or do u try to predict who the paapi might be so that u can stop things before they happen? and if it came down to terrorism, who would u predict the paapi might be? that old japanese lady or the IM? hope you can provide practical pointers on how to point fingers at the paap while not going after the likely paapis. they do belong to a certain community, no?Wink

Do you expect me to do a case study here?

didnt say u should. but u r always welcome to if u wantTongue

 Intellegence agencies are taking the right steps, then the POV's you are trying to make, they know the facts or else there was no reason everyone on airports get scrutinized or pass security test rather then M originated people. They are targeting the paap not papi's, anyone can be suspectable terrorist irrespect or origin or religion. NO?

they subject certain people to more stringent security checks. a pakistani for example is not given a visa into india very easily, as is an indian into pakistan. would u call that targetting too based primarily on someone's religion/ origin? Tongue also, at some stage, whether there's a separate queue for foreigners etc, or whether there is lengthy background check before-hand, the checks are not the same for all everyone.

yes, in a relatively affluent country like the US, they do try to check everyone at airports. but even in the US, wiretapping and surveillance is carried on more routinely on muslims. why do u think muslims are so unhappy, with many of them changing their names from aymen to andrew?WinkWink in fact, even funds have had to return billions of dollars in middle east money thanks to the post 9/11 patriot act. arent these examples of targetting on the part of the agencies?Tongue

and how do u get to "all poor have no right to live"? isnt that a wild exterpolation? who's saying that? Confusedbut yes, if they are more prone to crime, then we should put more cops in those neigborhoods, no? 

Thats whats pointed or being conveyed by cornering IM's, don't you feel? To control crime not even poor even rich are no less, put more cops in neighbourhood where crime rate is high not based on rich or poorWink

yes. and if the crime rate is higher in poor neighborhoods and almost non-existent in the rich, then one should target the poor neighborhoods, no? now dont get too literal with this. if crime rates are higher in the rich neighborhood, then that's where they should go. they should let statistical and common sense likelihood guide their decisions. if that leads to muslim neighborhoods, so be itWink

bottom line, when u need to fight crime/ terrorism, u try to go after where u expect to find that crime. where they live, who they hang out with and what their community are obvious starting points

Right what you are saying is to be proactive here, but in previous view it sounded more like definate action/targetting against just one caste / religion rather then proactively taking corrective actions on potential problems irrespective of religion / caste / creed.

where's the confusion? in this case, being proactive does mean targetting IMs.  for reasons that should be obvious from above.Wink just so i am clear, if tomorrow some other community is throwing up all the terrorists, then they should be targetted. but meanwhile, since IMs are so often the perpetrators, they need special attention.Smile



Edited by chatbuster - 08 July 2007 at 1:23am

SolidSnake

IF-Rockerz

SolidSnake

Joined: 12 January 2006

Posts: 6916

Posted: 08 July 2007 at 7:04am | IP Logged

One major problem with IMs is that they are not ready to reform, nor are they ready to accept that their are shortcomings in their religion. On top of that humare "secularists" (the likes of Arundhati RoyDead) ekdam chup ho jaate hain jab bhi non-Hindu maamla uthtaa hai, muh par taala lag jaata hai. Same with our elitist "liberal" English media which dicusses Guruvayur controvesry in detail (and rightly so) but never gives attention to something like this...

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=89173

New Delhi, July 6: A fatwa issued by leading Islamic seminary Dar-ul-Uloom Deoband has ruled that co-education is 'unlawful' as the system has given rise to 'a number of evils' in colleges and universities.

Ms must denounce the concept of Jehad (read Terrorism) in strongest terms now, it has been constantly abused by fanatics. Nor should they be allowed to retain their Muslim first, Indian second policy. Everyone should be Indian first and rest later.

IMs also seem to be suffering from inferiority complex, so in the end they end up doing things to prove that they are more muslims than other muslims. Take for example recent Knighthood to Salman Rushdie. Maximum and loudest protests were not from Iran or Saudi Arabia, it were from Pakistan and India. Nor do they ever acknowledge the fact that they are lucky to be living with honour in this country after what happened immedietely partition. Not only they get privileges here, they have democratic rights...yes there are shortcomings but overall this country has given them so much.

Gauri_3

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 12 November 2006

Posts: 13617

Posted: 08 July 2007 at 9:04am | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

angelic_devil

IF-Rockerz

Requested selfban

Joined: 26 October 2004

Posts: 5676

Posted: 08 July 2007 at 11:44am | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

Gauri_3

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 12 November 2006

Posts: 13617

Posted: 08 July 2007 at 1:50pm | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

Gauri_3

IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 12 November 2006

Posts: 13617

Posted: 08 July 2007 at 1:57pm | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

raj5000

Moderator

raj5000

Joined: 01 January 2006

Posts: 11720

Posted: 08 July 2007 at 8:19pm | IP Logged

inlined in font.

Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by raj5000

Originally posted by chatbuster

terrorism is something that is very strongly linked to muslim groups the world over these days. if we cant agree on that, maybe we wont ever.Wink

Are there more religious bond nations then M's. I mean are there more then one sikh / hindu nations world wide?

sorry, no idea what this meansSmile

Never mind then Smile

 BTW how do you define terrorism, some community fighting for religious beliefs or is it cimilar to civil wars ?

how is this relevant to this topic? Confusedwe see buildings in mumbai blown up, parliament attacked, people getting killed in sarojini nagar market, we come across akshadarma temple killings, what should the government and the citizenry do? wait for someone to debate whether it is terrorism or someone fighting a civil war? shouldn't we just go and try to find the perpetrators without getting into all these semantics? Tongue

It is becuase I want understand your defination of terrorism, that you explained. Okay when thats terrorism what is this??? Click here for link NOT suitable for all, disturbing contents. Next thing you will ask is whats the point in brinigng this up, well just trying to convey terrorism is not just associated with M's but is menance caused by politicians or leaders. Why corner IM's or M's on the when they nothing to do with, what difference will they make if they raise thier voice against terrorism done by fellow religion mates? What difference has common man irrespective of religion have made to curb terrorism. Read news do couple to chich chich chich... move onto next page. 

as for going after the paap and not the paapi's community, sure. good line. but how? could u provide practical pointers here?

Absolutely, check for physcologist behaviour patterns of individuals who can be potential threat to peace, not singling out M's. ALL am saying don't corner M's there are many more individuals belonging to differnet religion involved on disruputing peace. BTW  - mafia activity only related to M's? why not?

lol. so do we run these psychological tests all over india then? LOL ok, in an ideal world where money grows on trees, i am sure we can spend money on tests as well. but money does not grow on trees, does it? we do have scarce resources and limited time in which to disrupt terror cells, dont we? cant go around running unreliable tests and not target folks who might be crossing into our borders or fooling around insideTongue

Very nice, shortage of resource pick on innocent people, why Confused?? let me guess becuase he or she belongs to certain religion Ouch

next, if we go along with your argument, doesnt psychological testing also amount to profiling/ stereotyping? i mean is every mentally sick person a killer? so what should we do then? forget about the new idea you came up with?Wink

lols till some extend you are right, but hey strereotyping will uniformly accross individual not based of caste/creed/religion/poor/rich. Ideas are keepsWink there are many ideas implemented in world which 20 years ago, no one would have ever liked or imagined, shall I copyright itWink LOL

i am sure intelligence agencies would be very happy to learn techniques they might have overlooked. Tongue specifically, do u go after the paapi after the paap has been committed? or do u try to predict who the paapi might be so that u can stop things before they happen? and if it came down to terrorism, who would u predict the paapi might be? that old japanese lady or the IM? hope you can provide practical pointers on how to point fingers at the paap while not going after the likely paapis. they do belong to a certain community, no?Wink

Do you expect me to do a case study here?

didnt say u should. but u r always welcome to if u wantTongue

not fallin for thatWink LOL no time, actuallySmile

 Intellegence agencies are taking the right steps, then the POV's you are trying to make, they know the facts or else there was no reason everyone on airports get scrutinized or pass security test rather then M originated people. They are targeting the paap not papi's, anyone can be suspectable terrorist irrespect or origin or religion. NO?

they subject certain people to more stringent security checks. a pakistani for example is not given a visa into india very easily, as is an indian into pakistan. would u call that targetting too based primarily on someone's religion/ origin? Tongue also, at some stage, whether there's a separate queue for foreigners etc, or whether there is lengthy background check before-hand, the checks are not the same for all everyone.

yes, in a relatively affluent country like the US, they do try to check everyone at airports. but even in the US, wiretapping and surveillance is carried on more routinely on muslims. why do u think muslims are so unhappy, with many of them changing their names from aymen to andrew?WinkWink in fact, even funds have had to return billions of dollars in middle east money thanks to the post 9/11 patriot act. arent these examples of targetting on the part of the agencies?Tongue

Till some extend it might look like that, but are biasing scrutiny written down as a rules Or do they suspect every M's. Depends on individuals perspective sitting on the security chair. He / She also falls in same category of making generalizations. Law / Rule check everyone equally... check few suspectable more.. suspects can be black/white/brown/girl/boy/ etc...

and how do u get to "all poor have no right to live"? isnt that a wild exterpolation? who's saying that? Confusedbut yes, if they are more prone to crime, then we should put more cops in those neigborhoods, no? 

Thats whats pointed or being conveyed by cornering IM's, don't you feel? To control crime not even poor even rich are no less, put more cops in neighbourhood where crime rate is high not based on rich or poorWink

yes. and if the crime rate is higher in poor neighborhoods and almost non-existent in the rich, then one should target the poor neighborhoods, no? now dont get too literal with this. if crime rates are higher in the rich neighborhood, then that's where they should go. they should let statistical and common sense likelihood guide their decisions. if that leads to muslim neighborhoods, so be itWink

@bold - LOL. Statistical and common sense, yeah right Wink same circle..back to same neighborhood.

bottom line, when u need to fight crime/ terrorism, u try to go after where u expect to find that crime. where they live, who they hang out with and what their community are obvious starting points

Right what you are saying is to be proactive here, but in previous view it sounded more like definate action/targetting against just one caste / religion rather then proactively taking corrective actions on potential problems irrespective of religion / caste / creed.

where's the confusion? in this case, being proactive does mean targetting IMs.  for reasons that should be obvious from above.Wink just so i am clear, if tomorrow some other community is throwing up all the terrorists, then they should be targetted. but meanwhile, since IMs are so often the perpetrators, they need special attention.Smile

I don't find this proactive step is fair to Muslim community as a whole atleast for sections who have nothing to do with terrorists or Dead activities. See wht our PM says http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=89113

more on similar topics, jsut read if you have time orelse ignore.. won' t be able to respond if you have comemnts on links.. atleast not for next 1-2 weeks, thanks for understanding :)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08 /13/AR2006081300720_pf.html

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/may/18raman.htm

http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Jul72007/national2007070 611420.asp


Sikh riots and lessons for Muslims
So the report of the second commission on the Sikh riots has been out and tables in the Parliament. It is a sad aspect that while Muslims who constitute 15% of Indian population and have seen much horrific riots have yet to get even one report of any of the riots let alone two commissions as in the case of Sikh riots.
Lakhs was received by each victim of Sikh riot in compensation but Muslims in the most gruesome riots never received a penny. Except the Mumbai riots all other anti-Muslim pogroms saw the reports of the commissions go to dustbins. In fact, there was hardly any commission of inquiry instituted in the most riots that were directed against Muslims. The brutal killings of Muslims in Hashimpura and Maliana by PAC, the Bhagalpur, Ferozabad, Muradabad, Meerut, Ahmedabad (1969) and Surat riots saw no inquiries.
The lack of interest of the Muslims in taking up the case of riot victims and the shameless apathy of the Muslim MPs have been responsible for the gross violation of the human rights of Muslims. Muslims were targeted again and again because there was no effective opposition. Neither courts were approached, nor social crusades launched. The leadership was either asleep or busy in individual gains at the cost of community.
The Muslim MPs of the Congress are the worst traitors of the community because they never raised the issues of the Muslims, particularly regarding the riots and carnages. The Sikhs have not been content with one Commission and compensation and then the second commission, they still want more. That is a slap on the face of the Muslim leadership. Sikhs constitute less than 2% of India's population and except Punjab and to an extent in Delhi and Haryana, the community has no electoral importance but they have sought justice for them.


Muslim law and Indian courts
Something is really happening nasty in this country.
One, Vishwamohan Madan, appraoched the Supreme Court that the Islamic courts are functioning illegally in the country and need to be banned and the Apex Court issues notices to seven states, Muslim Personal Law Board and Darul Uloom Deoband on this petition.
The MVP Chairman Mohammad Mahir has rightly said that courts are unknowingly getting into such traps. Firstly, Muslim Personal Law is part of Indian constitution and the community has every right to appoint qazis and muftis for arbitration. This is a fundamental right and all communities have their own kinds of panchayats and religious leaders to guide. Fatwa is the religious position as expressed by the scholars and does not come in way of civil courts. Still, the bench of Supreme Court decided to send notices to state governments on this petition. It is unfortunate that the Muslim Personal Law that is an intrinsic part of Indian constitution is almost looked upon as an aberration and the spirit of constitution is violated.

Rape of minor girl
A five-year-old girl was raped and murdered in Bhopal. It was a brutal and highly despicable crime. But the irony is that the first question asked after the crime is that who did it to ascertain the religion of the person.
Mercifully, most of the rapes of minors in the last year in Bhopal saw Hindu assailants and Hindu victims. Had it been a Muslim accused in even a single case, there might have been a communal riot.
What has happened to our sensibilities? If a Muslim is found indulging in eve teasing it leads to a riot-like situation but when a Hindu brutally rapes a girl, it is regretted that he was a deranged man and a threat to society but nothing more than that. Similarly, if a Muslim is raped by a Hindu, it leads to communal tension. The society seems heading towards its nadir.



Edited by raj5000 - 09 July 2007 at 12:15am

Post Reply New Post

Go to top

Related Topics

  Topics Topic Starter Replies Views Last Post
Quota reservation for Muslims Ahmed25 8 965 17 August 2009 at 6:37pm
By return_to_hades
Muslims holding this nation to ransom? SolidSnake 4 497 01 September 2007 at 5:26am
By syrene
Indian muslims

2 3

mkzara 16 831 30 November 2006 at 10:10am
By Pradarshak
Muslims in Indian Army

2

cutiepie1 14 1844 22 February 2006 at 12:14am
By Kay Kay
Are Muslims worth the racism?

2 3 4

shriman 25 1985 31 July 2005 at 6:02am
By kaleidoscope

Forum Quick Jump

Forum Category

Active Forums

Debate Mansion Topic Index

Limit search to this Forum only.

 

Disclaimer: All Logos and Pictures of various Channels, Shows, Artistes, Media Houses, Companies, Brands etc. belong to their respective owners, and are used to merely visually identify the Channels, Shows, Companies, Brands, etc. to the viewer. Incase of any issue please contact the webmaster.