Originally posted by: -Roshan-
Or was it a Holohoax. Your opinions please!
The gas chambers WERE NOT DISCOVERED by the Western Allies and the Red Army. Where the hell did they come from then?
Umm how are you saying that no gas chambers were discovered?
Do you have actual scholastic citation for it? Did you know you can actually
tour the former gas chambers like Madjanek and Auschwitz? How do you explain
these gas chambers? Were these gas chambers were created later to promote tourist
interests and shock value?
Personally, I've found holocaust denial to be an extremely anti-Semitic statement.
Originally posted by: return_to_hades
Umm how are you saying that no gas chambers were discovered? Do you have actual scholastic citation for it? Did you know you can actually tour the former gas chambers like Madjanek and Auschwitz? How do you explain these gas chambers? Were these gas chambers were created later to promote tourist interests and shock value?
Personally, I've found holocaust denial to be an extremely anti-Semitic statement.
One thing unfortunate about history is we can't take whatever told to us as truths. History is always written by winners. Afterall the Western allies had to have some justification for the World War II. Therefore it is quite possible, they may have made exaggerated figures about the holocaust.
The holocaust was not a justification of World War II, the
holocaust was a factual discovery of World War II. The German invasion of
sovereign nations like Poland, Austria and France was justification of World
War II. Had Germany just conducted an internal genocide, most nations would not have intervened.
We all know at the end of the World War 1, Germany was terribly humiliated. I still could not accept was Germany the cause of both the World wars? We all know that the other colonial powers were also very much greedy. One reason they attribute to World War 1 was, Germany also competed for colonies apart from England and France. England had the need to check Germany. And in the end of the World war 1, the German colonies were taken away by the allies.
Your mention of "German colonies" reflects a lack of historic
understanding. There was no such thing as German colonies. The colonizing
European nations were Britian, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium and
Netherlands. During the colonization era German rulers had an isolationist
policy. They never colonized. Kaiser William II tried to change that by having
an expansionist policy. The trigger for WWI was the assassination of Austrian Archduke
Franz Ferdinand in Serbia. This caused Austria-Hungary and its ally to declare
war against Serbia and Serbian allies retaliated. Germany being the biggest
power in the Austria-Hungary-Germany alliance took center stage.
The treaty of Versailles which ended WWI was a very unfair
treaty which heavily punished Germany financially. The problem was that the
civilians of Germany had to pay the price for the ambitions of Otto Van
Bismarck and Kaiser William II. Germany was in deep recession with high
unemployment. It was the aftermath of the treaty that gave rise to Nazi
socialism and the Third Reich.
When Hitler asked, 'How is Britain entitled to rule the whole World?' I strongly believe every Indian would resonate with that statement. Definitely based on what we read about Hitler's behavior, he did commit a lot of atrocities. But what about the atrocities British committed in India? How could British assume to have moral authority , if they themselves committed atrocities in the whole World?
India was mighty lucky. We were lucky it was Britain that colonized us and not Spain. The Spanish inquisition was horrifyingly cruel and wiped out entire civilizations. We were lucky we were India and not Africa which got exploited for slave trade. Actually, we Indians bought African slaves from the colonizers. And the genocide of Jews isn't even remotely comparable to British colonization. I find it very irksome when people compare colonization to genocide. It isn't the same, and it isn't comparable.
Most importantly two wrongs don't make a right. British colonization doesn't justify German genocide, nor does it make British retaliation wrong. Moreover, reducing WWII to a moral argument is another false simplification.
Originally posted by: -Roshan-
There's a difference between being a holocaust denier and disapproving some parts of it. And to label everything anti-Semitic isn't very wise and erudite either. There are survivors who have denied the existence of the gas chambers too. Historians have doubted their existence at some point or the other. Some have believed that they were built AFTER the camps had been liberated.
1. Then frame the discussion as to an investigation on the facts and statistics of the holocaust, not as a discussion of the holocaust was a hoax.
2. I didn't call everything' anti-Semitic. I specifically said holocaust denial' is anti-Semitic. If it was a factual investigation rather than a specific agenda, I would have been more OK with it.
3. I would like to see evidence of survivors who denied gas chambers and correlate it to which concentration camps they were confined in.
Very few historians have doubted the existence of gas chambers or the holocaust. There are a select few who align themselves with the denial group.Originally posted by: -Roshan-
Personally, I feel they existed. Yes, the people were exterminated. Yes, there were massacres taking place. However, since history and its pages are decorated by men (and women) themselves, I am a bit incredulous of certain claims like the big 6 million figure of the exterminated Jews. One such research redirects me to this: http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t790421/. Since I didn't live through those times (and thank God for that!), I am only skeptical, to say the least.
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