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Bazigar

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Bazigar

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Posted: 03 September 2013 at 3:58am | IP Logged
Originally posted by enigmatic_zephy

Originally posted by mr.ass

^^ it seems you do not understand anything LOL  first calling modi communist and then saying you dont know what communism means! he is a hardcore capitalist.

there has not been any riots in the last 10 years in gujarat, so how anyone can even call him hitler is crazy.

Don't misunderstand but why do people forget what muslims did to begin all this...
people were set to fire..the entire train incident..


I know even my parents dont agree with me..but in a way it reminds me of blue star...the fact that Indira gandhi took an aggressive step...whatever damage happened is devastating..but this step curbed terrorism in sikh community...( however, wat tytler did later..is heinous crime)..

Similarly, what modi did , though an aggressive step..( and obviously exponentially increased in its aftereffects)...but then the other side of the truth is..never ever wud there be riots..or have been..

Food for thought : Just like terrorists justifying their act . by saying action reaction theory of their that everything begin with Babri demolition, mumbai riots , Gujarat riots etc. Wink

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enigmatic_zephy

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enigmatic_zephy

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enigmatic_zephy

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Posted: 03 September 2013 at 4:04am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ramjaane

Originally posted by enigmatic_zephy

Originally posted by mr.ass

^^ it seems you do not understand anything LOL  first calling modi communist and then saying you dont know what communism means! he is a hardcore capitalist.

there has not been any riots in the last 10 years in gujarat, so how anyone can even call him hitler is crazy.

Don't misunderstand but why do people forget what muslims did to begin all this...
people were set to fire..the entire train incident..


I know even my parents dont agree with me..but in a way it reminds me of blue star...the fact that Indira gandhi took an aggressive step...whatever damage happened is devastating..but this step curbed terrorism in sikh community...( however, wat tytler did later..is heinous crime)..

Similarly, what modi did , though an aggressive step..( and obviously exponentially increased in its aftereffects)...but then the other side of the truth is..never ever wud there be riots..or have been..

Food for thought : Just like terrorists justifying their act . by saying action reaction theory of their that everything begin with Babri demolition, mumbai riots , Gujarat riots etc. Wink


Ya but in India, it has been going on for way too long...and way too often...and the crux is not political tactics...but they infact play on the inherent dislike/mistrust that exists between different religions..and have existed since  forever...every foreign ruler has benefited out of it..

I honestly don't get it...big deal if u don't give 'God' land on earth..he is god..he will find his abode..

Religion is classic example that brings out insecurities of people.. such an useless thing made so important...Y r we so pathetic...we as in humans..


Edited by enigmatic_zephy - 03 September 2013 at 4:05am

Bazigar

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Bazigar

Joined: 01 July 2013

Posts: 614

Posted: 03 September 2013 at 4:15am | IP Logged
Originally posted by enigmatic_zephy

Originally posted by ramjaane

Originally posted by enigmatic_zephy

Originally posted by mr.ass

^^ it seems you do not understand anything LOL  first calling modi communist and then saying you dont know what communism means! he is a hardcore capitalist.

there has not been any riots in the last 10 years in gujarat, so how anyone can even call him hitler is crazy.

Don't misunderstand but why do people forget what muslims did to begin all this...
people were set to fire..the entire train incident..


I know even my parents dont agree with me..but in a way it reminds me of blue star...the fact that Indira gandhi took an aggressive step...whatever damage happened is devastating..but this step curbed terrorism in sikh community...( however, wat tytler did later..is heinous crime)..

Similarly, what modi did , though an aggressive step..( and obviously exponentially increased in its aftereffects)...but then the other side of the truth is..never ever wud there be riots..or have been..

Food for thought : Just like terrorists justifying their act . by saying action reaction theory of their that everything begin with Babri demolition, mumbai riots , Gujarat riots etc. Wink


Ya but in India, it has been going on for way too long...and way too often...and the crux is not political tactics...but they infact play on the inherent dislike/mistrust that exists between different religions..and have existed since  forever...every foreign ruler has benefited out of it..

I honestly don't get it...big deal if u don't give 'God' land on earth..he is god..he will find his abode..

Religion is classic example that brings out insecurities of people.. such an useless thing made so important...Y r we so pathetic...we as in humans..

I just try to make an off topic point , is it not quite interesting that even educated class like us simply give the statement like Modi theory of action-reaction theory ? By implicitly justifying riots by blaming train burning ?

Shall we buy the same theory of terrorists who try to justify their act by blaming babri demolition , followed up riots all over India, Mumbai riots, Gujarat riots blah blah  same action-reaction theory. 

On topic rajiv gandhi is related to all this by igniting the Mandir-Masjid issue for his political benefit to counter then opposition , only thing is in this process he encouraged religious fanatics.
 
I feel religious fanaticism is just like terrorism. 

Example of same action reaction theory of terrorist , only in these action reaction ping pong ordinary human lost their life who have nothing to do with the issue. A simple song 


Edited by ramjaane - 03 September 2013 at 4:48am

enigmatic_zephy

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enigmatic_zephy

Joined: 16 June 2009

Posts: 15938

Posted: 03 September 2013 at 7:03am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ramjaane

Originally posted by enigmatic_zephy


Food for thought : Just like terrorists justifying their act . by saying action reaction theory of their that everything begin with Babri demolition, mumbai riots , Gujarat riots etc. Wink


Ya but in India, it has been going on for way too long...and way too often...and the crux is not political tactics...but they infact play on the inherent dislike/mistrust that exists between different religions..and have existed since  forever...every foreign ruler has benefited out of it..

I honestly don't get it...big deal if u don't give 'God' land on earth..he is god..he will find his abode..

Religion is classic example that brings out insecurities of people.. such an useless thing made so important...Y r we so pathetic...we as in humans..

I just try to make an off topic point , is it not quite interesting that even educated class like us simply give the statement like Modi theory of action-reaction theory ? By implicitly justifying riots by blaming train burning ?

My point is aggressive tactics are sometime required...extremism has its own merits and its own horrors...not specific godhra..

Shall we buy the same theory of terrorists who try to justify their act by blaming babri demolition , followed up riots all over India, Mumbai riots, Gujarat riots blah blah  same action-reaction theory. 



Buy whatever theory..bottom line is survival...

On terrorism, as on today what r their reasons, that is much debatable...but let me argue India's stand on this because that's where I see this from...


What are we doing? Nothing...we die and go back to living our life...Why can't India take a tough stand..either u die (which u anyways are dying) or u win..but u end a major portion of issues...

But instead, we smile and get slapped each time- be it international relations or be internal security...

The problem is that no step has ever been taken...

Peace process, negotiation is indeed the first step to take..but it comes with a time limit else it is seen as weakness...actually any tactic that doesn';t deliver has no impact , has no effect..

Case in point: the decision govt had to take after kandhar..that if hijacks happen, we will have to live with collateral damage..

( Now you may argue that's worng because u let people die..but i think someone needs to take a harsh steps to put an end to it...)


Case in point: Until people start teaching rapists lessons, it is not going down because the parliament is full of rapists.

( Fear needs to be instilled..)


Aggressive tactics are required at a certain threshold,

Someone or the other will always be ready to kill you, that's us humans...I am not saying justified or not we should let someone else kill us..NO...its a fight for survival and quest to control these antisocila activities...

So if someone threatens you..defensive tactics are not always the answer..ofcourse, the grey area is how far u can go...

Riots each time have ruined millions of people..too much devastation..and hasn't India seen enough of riots since independence...
Acknowledge another fact, that we the people are responsible for it...there has always been this undercurrent of mistrust...which has been exploited time and again...

So after a time you have to give in to the 'dialog' process..and take some strict actions against people who perpetuate this...laws that are actually implemented..but that is just not happening...so what do you do when the right effective methods are not an option..you end up relying on other tactics..


There is a reason why India can't , hasn't solved any security problem till date...

On topic rajiv gandhi is related to all this by igniting the Mandir-Masjid issue for his political benefit to counter then opposition , only thing is in this process he encouraged religious fanatics.
 
I feel religious fanaticism is just like terrorism. 

Example of same action reaction theory of terrorist , only in these action reaction ping pong ordinary human lost their life who have nothing to do with the issue. A simple song 

no idea abt the song..can't play..but u r missing my point..its not an action/reaction theory..I am talking abt aggressive tactics..and if they are required...I think yes, sometimes they are..sometimes power of fear has more merits than power of love..


I am not supporting eye for an eye Big smile .. i am just saying at times it is required..what happened in godhra..is all of it justified..NO...it wud hv never grown into this big a problem had those people been nabbed and punished adequately...but then how do u identify them..no one cud..there are a myriad questions..and deaths are always BAD..they are..ask whoever loses his/her family members...


BUT then, as on today..shud we keep reminding ourselves abt partition..and why pakistan happened..and refuse any relationship with UK?...shud we keep reminding ourselves of '93..and kick both allah and ram out of India?...shud we forget all the bloodshed that happened prior to independence..and how calculatta and bangladesh were bleeding? and abuse the leaders of those time..or maybe the priests from each community...

Should we not burn us ourselves alive for letting these religion based crimes continue in our society..?


NO rt?.. Neither are we doing any of this..we aren't...


So if u keep living the godhra kaan every now and then..no one can move on...

Hasn't BJP come in power before..was each instance accompanied with riots? NO..


Moreover, its not that BJP is better than COngress..far from it..

But the hour of the need is...we have no hope..if congress stays in power..soon enough if they continue with such large scale corruptions..the poverty would frustrate us ( enough crime rate already)...that riots will become an obvious consequence any which way..

[/QUOTE]

Edited by enigmatic_zephy - 03 September 2013 at 7:13am

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krystal_watz

Bazigar

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Bazigar

Joined: 01 July 2013

Posts: 614

Posted: 03 September 2013 at 8:25am | IP Logged
((Don't misunderstand but why do people forget what muslims did to begin all this...
people were set to fire..the entire train incident..
Similarly, what modi did , though an aggressive step..( and obviously exponentially increased in its aftereffects)...but then the other side of the truth is..never ever wud there be riots..or have been..))

1. My response was totally based on the point of action reaction implicit justification you gave in above two points. Lets i will reply the same again: The way  implicitly justify riots the same way terrorists justify their act with the action reaction theory. That previous post is based on that , not about how to tackle terrorism. Yes India shows so much loophole in its approach on terrorism of bomb simultaneous in riots . The terrorism of bomb, sword and trishul are same.  I only relate the justification we try to give on riots by blaming train burning  with how terrorists use the same justification. It is nothing to do with the issue of terrorism and how to handle it. Basically my whole earlier point is related to the theory of action - reaction that many try to put like riot is by blaming train burning, that example is 1992 riots followed by blast with the same justification of action reaction by those terrorists. 

2. What type of fear need to be instilled ? So people burned in train , then political goons like babu bajarangi , kodani are free to burn innocent lives who have nothing to do with the incident. so who do you think teach lesson to those rapists in riots . If we apply the same logic those people murdered their relatives are free to unleash in the same way to other , the logic dangerously justify this. 

3.The way u r saying fear should be instilled etc. so among whom you try to instill fear the innocent lives who have nothing to do with the issue happened just because they share the same religion ? Infact this funda of hindu fanatics only helping their counter part in muslim fanatics on the basis of ideology both are chachera - mausera bhai. Both blame each other and take innocent lives in the process. 

4. This undercurrent of mistrust is slowly nurtured and fueled by political groups for their own ambition. After partition if we see history then the major riots (not small ones ) where death count is more than 1000 are pre and post babri movement in India, then again in Mumbai , then again in Gujarat. In all these three we found the main perpetrators were related to BJP/RSS/VHP and shivsena. So hear you find a religious fanatics group related to hindu , just like there were muslim fanatic groups. . This mistrust is only gradually nurtured and used by different fanatic groups.

This teach a lesson is always a preaching of both side of religion fanatics. Both want to nurture and use the insecurity among people. This teach a lesson is always there among us as an insecurity, once a friend praised Bal Thakrey in the same way that he taught a lesson to certain community , my response is he just gave the same reason of other side of fanatics and terrorists to teach a lesson. This teach a lesson of mob is not on the culprit it is always targeted towards innocent civilians who have nothing to do with the issue. 

We have to learn from history rather than overlook the same ,my whole point is based on that issue , chalo i am going out of this topicSmile , if you can then enjoy a great documentary how politician exploit religion, a great detail of this vicious cycle since 1992 , where the main protagonist is non other than our Advani   :





Edited by ramjaane - 03 September 2013 at 8:49am

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Rehanism

Bazigar

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Posts: 614

Posted: 08 September 2013 at 6:51am | IP Logged



The above part of a documentary brilliantly answer in a nutshell about the psychology behind the teach a lesson from the mouth of rioters themselves , involvement of all religious fanatics and why it happens.

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apoorvaarnav

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apoorvaarnav

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Posted: 08 September 2013 at 11:37am | IP Logged
what i feel is.. ayodhya was originally a ram mandir ! and it should have stayed that way... but politicians brought in religion..they created riots.. and we people suffered.
advani will be a good PM.. then comes modi ..rahul gandhi etc is a big no !

rajiv gandhi was a good man.. but he should not have interfered with the sri lankans and also bangladesh pakistan war!

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mr.assenigmatic_zephy

enigmatic_zephy

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enigmatic_zephy

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Posted: 08 September 2013 at 11:51am | IP Logged
On BJP and congress:
Worth watching video

Arvind Kejriwaal..

"Hum hi bewakoof hai ki BJP-Congress karte rehte hain..sab mile hue hai"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SnSH8v8e288

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