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Is the lack of education/awareness causing rape? (Page 7)

karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 10 September 2013 at 6:26pm | IP Logged
@Birdie: May be not about education, but what about moral education? Its about controlling the animal instincts and learning how to value people among other things. Many schools teach ABCD, but fail to teach how to become a good human being.

And sure sense of impunity also has a big role, given either there is moral education or not.
BirdieNumNum Senior Member
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Posted: 10 September 2013 at 9:31pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by karandel_2008

@Birdie: May be not about education, but what about moral education? Its about controlling the animal instincts and learning how to value people among other things. Many schools teach ABCD, but fail to teach how to become a good human being.

And sure sense of impunity also has a big role, given either there is moral education or not.

@your earlier stats- yes Asia is bad when it comes to rape. India has high rape numbers too. But you are missing the point that rape incidence per capita is higher in many other countries than in India. US, Sweden, UK, many of them far more developed and educated than India.. 

coming to moral education, they teach ethics in some great universities. That does not stop people from doing the unethical thing later in their careers. I bet the same people who have been on their rape spree are folks who go to temples and masjids and churches. Moral/ religious understanding did not help there, did it? 

it's not just the schools failing. Societies are failing... And it's a failing that goes back to the stone age as long as man has existed along with their failings...

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karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 10 September 2013 at 11:08pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum

Originally posted by karandel_2008

@Birdie: May be not about education, but what about moral education? Its about controlling the animal instincts and learning how to value people among other things. Many schools teach ABCD, but fail to teach how to become a good human being.

And sure sense of impunity also has a big role, given either there is moral education or not.

@your earlier stats- yes Asia is bad when it comes to rape. India has high rape numbers too. But you are missing the point that rape incidence per capita is higher in many other countries than in India. US, Sweden, UK, many of them far more developed and educated than India.. 

coming to moral education, they teach ethics in some great universities. That does not stop people from doing the unethical thing later in their careers. I bet the same people who have been on their rape spree are folks who go to temples and masjids and churches. Moral/ religious understanding did not help there, did it? 

it's not just the schools failing. Societies are failing... And it's a failing that goes back to the stone age as long as man has existed along with their failings...


My stats were not to contradict yours. I was surprised to see they are claiming that 1 in 4 men in Asia could be a rapist.

About stats from UK, Sweden, etc: I know, but you have to consider the factor that their society is on the other side of the openness scale, whether good or bad. Girls roam around freely at night, sometimes drunk, and in general are very easy targets for criminals. Whereas in India rapes happen even when girls' mobility is very restrictive and protective. Also one has to check how many rapes are being actually reported in India. In many places Indian police does not register FIR as it will inflate the stats and could be bad for their promotion.  Ofcourse, coming to start, one can ask is openness to be blamed as well?

About moral education: Its better to do it from beginning rather than at the univs. We have to teach our kids about moral values, but these days I find that they are learning more of maths, etc.  Yes people may still do unethical things, but may be they will value human life more. Machiavellian business practices are on different scale than brutal rapes. Also just going to religious places and taking part in rituals doesn't help as one has to understand and agree to the values as well.

A person's core is made up of animal instincts. We have to find ways to control it. Oscar wilde's devil's advocate says instead to completely give in to it. However, one way is to discipline the mind and that would be through training. This has to be tackled multidimensionally: building a better person from inside through moral education and, on the other hand, better policing from outside in case the inside thing fails (edit: or something like power, etc corrupts the person later). Just better policing suffers from scalability issues.

Edited by karandel_2008 - 10 September 2013 at 11:20pm
BirdieNumNum Senior Member
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Posted: 11 September 2013 at 11:40am | IP Logged
Originally posted by karandel_2008

[
My stats were not to contradict yours. I was surprised to see they are claiming that 1 in 4 men in Asia could be a rapist.

About stats from UK, Sweden, etc: I know, but you have to consider the factor that their society is on the other side of the openness scale, whether good or bad. Girls roam around freely at night, sometimes drunk, and in general are very easy targets for criminals. Whereas in India rapes happen even when girls' mobility is very restrictive and protective. Also one has to check how many rapes are being actually reported in India. In many places Indian police does not register FIR as it will inflate the stats and could be bad for their promotion.  Ofcourse, coming to start, one can ask is openness to be blamed as well?

About moral education: Its better to do it from beginning rather than at the univs. We have to teach our kids about moral values, but these days I find that they are learning more of maths, etc.  Yes people may still do unethical things, but may be they will value human life more. Machiavellian business practices are on different scale than brutal rapes. Also just going to religious places and taking part in rituals doesn't help as one has to understand and agree to the values as well.

A person's core is made up of animal instincts. We have to find ways to control it. Oscar wilde's devil's advocate says instead to completely give in to it. However, one way is to discipline the mind and that would be through training. This has to be tackled multidimensionally: building a better person from inside through moral education and, on the other hand, better policing from outside in case the inside thing fails (edit: or something like power, etc corrupts the person later). Just better policing suffers from scalability issues.

of course one needs to try every possible solution. Culture shifts are however more generational/ long-term in nature. Of course, with any luck you can find an Elvis to impart those changes sooner. LOL

That means if you're looking for immediate solutions, they have to start with better policing and deterrence. Hang a few rapists publicly and you'll see change. And i disagree with your assertion that policing  is not scalable. On the contrary, it is far more scalable than building schools and other institutions to educate/ create the moral awareness you're hoping for. Cops in India can be recruited for a pittance. Apart from that, the solutions you offer are very fuzzy in nature,and  not very actionable. For  example, you mention "moral education". Sounds great, but do you really think people don't know by now that it's immoral/ criminal to rape? Of course, you might have a point if you're talking about people from Mars, but right now we're talking about earthlings, or aren't we?LOL
-Aarya- Goldie
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Posted: 11 September 2013 at 11:54am | IP Logged
^ In your opinion which type of people rape others, are they all sociopath, morally or ethically challenged or lack education...

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BirdieNumNum

BirdieNumNum Senior Member
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Posted: 11 September 2013 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by -Aarya-

^ In your opinion which type of people rape others, are they all sociopath, morally or ethically challenged or lack education...

great question. They are sociopaths for sure, bad deviants from normal behavior. But i dont think they are always uneducated. If they were, we would not have the concept of date rape that began in western universities.

Again, i think it comes down to any/ all of the following- feeling of entitlement (so they can force themselves if they want), entertainment (horny guys who cant get laid for the life of them plus thinking they can get away with it), punishment (eg. guys with big egos who cant take no for an answer, so need to punish etc)... These are common human failings, much too common to hope to eradicate in a hurry.Smile

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enigmatic_zephy IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 11 September 2013 at 12:29pm | IP Logged
@All,
more than arguing on how many get raped..check figures on how many rapists are apprehended..as i remeber US has a 11% rate, UK less than 9%..and so on...


Rapists are not captured..!! forget punishment..

Unlike other crimes, this is one crime where so many things are screwed.

1. Most of the time women can't recognize their rapists

2. Police doesn't nab the victims..is unsuccessful..

3.Rapists are ahbitual..and death or life sentence as a punishment is mere joke..

4. A survey that Kiran Bedi did in Tihar when she was posted there..( and i think just before she tried vipassana in jails), most of the rapists..loved ( like an adrenaline kick)...when their victims shouted, when they were helpless..

On marital abuse, again similar results..it makes the man feel superior...when he is treated bad outside...ego boost..

5. It is not about education, it is not about control...it is not a today's problem...this is how the society is and has been...nor was rape an easy thing to get over for a woman back in BC era..nor is getting over being raped an easy thing for a woman as modern as you can imagine..

 I agree with Birdie...on the society aspect


6. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/delhi-gang-rape-india-women - read it..it brings out the scary fact that people involved are all normal people..





Edited by enigmatic_zephy - 11 September 2013 at 12:29pm

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karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 11 September 2013 at 1:30pm | IP Logged

of course one needs to try every possible solution. Culture shifts are however more generational/ long-term in nature. Of course, with any luck you can find an Elvis to impart those changes sooner. LOL

That means if you're looking for immediate solutions, they have to start with better policing and deterrence. Hang a few rapists publicly and you'll see change. And i disagree with your assertion that policing  is not scalable. On the contrary, it is far more scalable than building schools and other institutions to educate/ create the moral awareness you're hoping for. Cops in India can be recruited for a pittance. Apart from that, the solutions you offer are very fuzzy in nature,and  not very actionable. For  example, you mention "moral education". Sounds great, but do you really think people don't know by now that it's immoral/ criminal to rape? Of course, you might have a point if you're talking about people from Mars, but right now we're talking about earthlings, or aren't we?LOL


Sure I am talking about long term solutions, what is the problem with long term solutions? They are slow, but whats the harm if we try them too along with your short term solutions?

What are your solutions to better policing? If you are in favour of just better policing then your own stats contradict your point LOL We have better policing in many western countries, but then why are your stats showing things in very bad light?

Policing is not scalable in the sense that you cant expect police to stand next to the door of every house or every girl. With relatively low number of police people, how do we solve the problem of unreported rape cases and the juvenile problem that in Asia men become rapists at young age like 14-16?

About moral education, its not about just knowing, but its about molding small kids to become better citizen. I am talking about good upbringing that itself will lead to better policing too. As a good citizen can also become a better policeman.

About deterence, I agree and myself pointed it out before.

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