Is the lack of education/awareness causing rape? - Page 6

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

@your earlier stats- yes Asia is bad when it comes to rape. India has high rape numbers too. But you are missing the point that rape incidence per capita is higher in many other countries than in India. US, Sweden, UK, many of them far more developed and educated than India.. 

coming to moral education, they teach ethics in some great universities. That does not stop people from doing the unethical thing later in their careers. I bet the same people who have been on their rape spree are folks who go to temples and masjids and churches. Moral/ religious understanding did not help there, did it? 

it's not just the schools failing. Societies are failing... And it's a failing that goes back to the stone age as long as man has existed along with their failings...

My stats were not to contradict yours. I was surprised to see they are claiming that 1 in 4 men in Asia could be a rapist.

About stats from UK, Sweden, etc: I know, but you have to consider the factor that their society is on the other side of the openness scale, whether good or bad. Girls roam around freely at night, sometimes drunk, and in general are very easy targets for criminals. Whereas in India rapes happen even when girls' mobility is very restrictive and protective. Also one has to check how many rapes are being actually reported in India. In many places Indian police does not register FIR as it will inflate the stats and could be bad for their promotion.  Ofcourse, coming to start, one can ask is openness to be blamed as well?

About moral education: Its better to do it from beginning rather than at the univs. We have to teach our kids about moral values, but these days I find that they are learning more of maths, etc.  Yes people may still do unethical things, but may be they will value human life more. Machiavellian business practices are on different scale than brutal rapes. Also just going to religious places and taking part in rituals doesn't help as one has to understand and agree to the values as well.

A person's core is made up of animal instincts. We have to find ways to control it. Oscar wilde's devil's advocate says instead to completely give in to it. However, one way is to discipline the mind and that would be through training. This has to be tackled multidimensionally: building a better person from inside through moral education and, on the other hand, better policing from outside in case the inside thing fails (edit: or something like power, etc corrupts the person later). Just better policing suffers from scalability issues. Edited by karandel_2008 - 10 years ago

Originally posted by: karandel_2008

[
My stats were not to contradict yours. I was surprised to see they are claiming that 1 in 4 men in Asia could be a rapist.

About stats from UK, Sweden, etc: I know, but you have to consider the factor that their society is on the other side of the openness scale, whether good or bad. Girls roam around freely at night, sometimes drunk, and in general are very easy targets for criminals. Whereas in India rapes happen even when girls' mobility is very restrictive and protective. Also one has to check how many rapes are being actually reported in India. In many places Indian police does not register FIR as it will inflate the stats and could be bad for their promotion.  Ofcourse, coming to start, one can ask is openness to be blamed as well?

About moral education: Its better to do it from beginning rather than at the univs. We have to teach our kids about moral values, but these days I find that they are learning more of maths, etc.  Yes people may still do unethical things, but may be they will value human life more. Machiavellian business practices are on different scale than brutal rapes. Also just going to religious places and taking part in rituals doesn't help as one has to understand and agree to the values as well.

A person's core is made up of animal instincts. We have to find ways to control it. Oscar wilde's devil's advocate says instead to completely give in to it. However, one way is to discipline the mind and that would be through training. This has to be tackled multidimensionally: building a better person from inside through moral education and, on the other hand, better policing from outside in case the inside thing fails (edit: or something like power, etc corrupts the person later). Just better policing suffers from scalability issues.

^ In your opinion which type of people rape others, are they all sociopath, morally or ethically challenged or lack education...

Originally posted by: -Aarya-

^ In your opinion which type of people rape others, are they all sociopath, morally or ethically challenged or lack education...

@All,















Edited by enigmatic_zephy - 10 years ago

of course one needs to try every possible solution. Culture shifts are however more generational/ long-term in nature. Of course, with any luck you can find an Elvis to impart those changes sooner. 😆

That means if you're looking for immediate solutions, they have to start with better policing and deterrence. Hang a few rapists publicly and you'll see change. And i disagree with your assertion that policing  is not scalable. On the contrary, it is far more scalable than building schools and other institutions to educate/ create the moral awareness you're hoping for. Cops in India can be recruited for a pittance. Apart from that, the solutions you offer are very fuzzy in nature,and  not very actionable. For  example, you mention "moral education". Sounds great, but do you really think people don't know by now that it's immoral/ criminal to rape? Of course, you might have a point if you're talking about people from Mars, but right now we're talking about earthlings, or aren't we?😆

Sure I am talking about long term solutions, what is the problem with long term solutions? They are slow, but whats the harm if we try them too along with your short term solutions?

What are your solutions to better policing? If you are in favour of just better policing then your own stats contradict your point 😆 We have better policing in many western countries, but then why are your stats showing things in very bad light?

Policing is not scalable in the sense that you cant expect police to stand next to the door of every house or every girl. With relatively low number of police people, how do we solve the problem of unreported rape cases and the juvenile problem that in Asia men become rapists at young age like 14-16?

About moral education, its not about just knowing, but its about molding small kids to become better citizen. I am talking about good upbringing that itself will lead to better policing too. As a good citizen can also become a better policeman.

About deterence, I agree and myself pointed it out before.

Originally posted by: karandel_2008

Sure I am talking about long term solutions, what is the problem with long term solutions? They are slow, but whats the harm if we try them too along with your short term solutions?

What are your solutions to better policing? If you are in favour of just better policing then your own stats contradict your point 😆 We have better policing in many western countries, but then why are your stats showing things in very bad light?

Policing is not scalable in the sense that you cant expect police to stand next to the door of every house or every girl. With relatively low number of police people, how do we solve the problem of unreported rape cases and the juvenile problem that in Asia men become rapists at young age like 14-16?

About moral education, its not about just knowing, but its about molding small kids to become better citizen. I am talking about good upbringing that itself will lead to better policing too. As a good citizen can also become a better policeman.

About deterence, I agree and myself pointed it out before.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

😆 to your point above in bold, that' simple STAT 101. Among other things, western countries do have more females venturing out, staying out late, going out on dates etc. Keep the conditional variables the same and you'll see what better policing can do. So this is where one shouldn''t be looking to do cross-sectional analysis, for the simple reason that factors change from one country to the next. Within a country, better policing would help. And that's another thing. Start with a good hypothesis, that's the other thing one needs for STAT 101.😆.

so what are you offering anyway? A long-term solution that's fuzzy. Should women feel happy knowing you're working up some moral literature in the long-run, and they have to make do with getting raped between now and then? 😆 Do people even have to be taught that rape is immoral/ criminal? If your answer to that is yes, then you're being very cynical about the state of affairs, all the more reason why one needs to start with cop-work. Cant be having an entire generation of women getting raped while you work up your moral theories..

Ya lol about STAT 101 😆

Point is that sure lets try some of your (edit: fast) solutions like hanging a few rapists. But, at the same time we have to think about much deeper causes and have to find long term solutions for them. Moral education and good upbringing is one of them. It was on the same line with your one liner on failing society.
Edited by karandel_2008 - 10 years ago

Originally posted by: karandel_2008

[
About stats from UK, Sweden, etc: I know, but you have to consider the factor that their society is on the other side of the openness scale, whether good or bad. Girls roam around freely at night, sometimes drunk, and in general are very easy targets for criminals. Whereas in India rapes happen even when girls' mobility is very restrictive and protective.

Above is what I too said on STAT 101.

It is all about power. Education has nothing to do with rapes. Many teachers, high ranking officers and businessmen also rape.

Men think of themselves as superior. And physically they are too (for most of the time).

Women are weaker and are treated as sex objects. So any female who is "within their reach" is "available" in their eyes.

They want sexual gratification, they think of overpowering women as a sign of masculinity and power and rape, especially gang rape is an activity of entertainment for them.

Rapes with poorer women and kids go less reported or unpunished so that gives them more "confidence" and they feel they can target anyone and not get caught.

Rape has been there since time immemorial and it is considered a routine. Nobody takes it seriously.

For men, especially Indian men, if a woman is outside or if she even responded to them, then it implies she is available.

Warped mentality! 🤢