Iss Pyaar Ko Kya Naam Doon

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Iss Pyaar Ko Kya Naam Doon
Iss Pyaar Ko Kya Naam Doon

Blast from the Past Thread #16, pg 128, epi 180 (Page 108)

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Posted: 28 August 2013 at 9:57am | IP Logged
Originally posted by wiwy

Originally posted by cinthiann1758

Originally posted by salooni

cynu di 
by the way not only ipkknd 2 
other serial are also coping ipkknd thinking that it can give them some trp 
1 award by quabool hai 
who from mai khawabo ki to salmaan khan 
copy cat 
2 in pyarr ka dard 
consumption scene was somewhat like in ipkknd 

3 then in one serial back hug 
and so on 

seem all are testing there faith by using ipkknd

Soni, I know, it is just that IPK was tooo good and why not try to copy it? But we all know no one other than the originals can portray  and act in this.  BTW, I love Qubaal Hai but did not watch it for a long time, feeling hurt, but I am watching it now.  Gul is absolutely brilliant.  I don't compare IPK and Qubaal Hai because the characters can't even compare but when I see the familiarities between the two, it hurts , but I know it is the same creator therefore the similarities.  They are her trademarks so I just twinge, bear it and enjoy it at the same time...ALWAYS missing Arnav and Khushi.  Last night Zoya did Hawa Hawaii...ugggh.

I have been faithful to very few serials. Much before IPK I used to watch ;Humlog' and 'Buniyaad'. The last two were first of their kind , the trials and travails of the mid class, something the class identified with. And were emulated by later soaps. Humlog was probably the first megaserial. The old fashioned romance in Buniyaad, maybe I was too immature to understand, but it kind of stirred me in the ahem way.The romance in IPK is also in a class of its own. The sweet bitter relationship, its fulfilment and flow, its transcedental and earthy tangents... I am not surprised it is being copied.

ya but di somw how it irritate 
becoz the magic is destroyed there doing this 
as i feel 

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Posted: 28 August 2013 at 10:05am | IP Logged
Originally posted by wiwy

Originally posted by cinthiann1758

Originally posted by salooni

cynu di 
by the way not only ipkknd 2 
other serial are also coping ipkknd thinking that it can give them some trp 
1 award by quabool hai 
who from mai khawabo ki to salmaan khan 
copy cat 
2 in pyarr ka dard 
consumption scene was somewhat like in ipkknd 

3 then in one serial back hug 
and so on 

seem all are testing there faith by using ipkknd

Soni, I know, it is just that IPK was tooo good and why not try to copy it? But we all know no one other than the originals can portray  and act in this.  BTW, I love Qubaal Hai but did not watch it for a long time, feeling hurt, but I am watching it now.  Gul is absolutely brilliant.  I don't compare IPK and Qubaal Hai because the characters can't even compare but when I see the familiarities between the two, it hurts , but I know it is the same creator therefore the similarities.  They are her trademarks so I just twinge, bear it and enjoy it at the same time...ALWAYS missing Arnav and Khushi.  Last night Zoya did Hawa Hawaii...ugggh.
 
 
I have been faithful to very few serials. Much before IPK I used to watch ;Humlog' and 'Buniyaad'. The last two were first of their kind , the trials and travails of the mid class, something the class identified with. And were emulated by later soaps. The romance in IPK is also in a class of its own. I am not surprised it is being copied.
 
I also watched Buniyaad and some good DD shows RK lakman ki kahaniya and after a long gap when my son left for professional studies started watching CB 1 and 2  and then joined IF as  I started midway and some more but left many midway as did not like ,IPK I stared after CB2 ended and then went and watched and downloaded all the old episodes and then joined this thread some tracks I had also seen in CB 1 Basically I don't like watching TV and dramatic shows more into news now watching some shows much to the annoyance of my hubby who says why do you watch all this dramaLOL
many popular tracks songs are blatantly copied  sometimes done better sometimes worse that's what TV and films are and many a times original one is best sometimes copycats do better by improving on the original Wink  but yes in bold yesterday was ugggh
 


Edited by chalhov - 28 August 2013 at 10:12am

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Posted: 28 August 2013 at 10:08am | IP Logged
Salooni ...the break is nxt week from 2nd september to 9th september!!

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Posted: 28 August 2013 at 10:11am | IP Logged
Originally posted by supriya.arshi

Saloni ...the break is nxt week from 2nd september to 9th september!!

ok sorry
and thanks

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Posted: 28 August 2013 at 10:30am | IP Logged
Originally posted by salooni

Originally posted by supriya.arshi

Saloni ...the break is nxt week from 2nd september to 9th september!!

ok sorry
and thanks

I am having a hard enough time trying to catch up!  Need a break.  Now I am skipping epis.  disappointed. Cry

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Posted: 28 August 2013 at 10:36am | IP Logged
Originally posted by cinthiann1758

Originally posted by wiwy

Originally posted by ArshiHamesha

Originally posted by indi52

Originally posted by ArshiHamesha

@ viv , @ Indi, @ Horizon, @ Issk, @Cynthia, @ wiwy and all 

Just finished reading all of your interesting chat...You all are agreeing at one point and that is...Portrayal of woman through our media is not changing over time and how this image of Achi...Good daughter, sister, wife, whatever has been molested in such a way that the blazing hate emerges within you when such comments fall on your ears...

OK I can accept that for instant that don't provoke sex and it's appeal through media because certain things feel or good beyond exposure...just like teri meri dance ... yet they can't convince me that for the name of sacrifice a woman can't have or express or even think about it.AGAINST Law of nature...

In the name of sacrification ,women are being dragged into mess...Sorry if I offended anyone...just got angry..

Totally agreed with all of you...after farmhouse night ...a lot of pieces are missing...as wiwy said they wanted us to roam around this thingy...hehehe...we are no fools...are we may be...All paagals at one place  

Horizon I can see what you are seeing ,feeling and expressing about after pool side emotive display...yet I feel that was the character of Khushi..."Action without thinking"...which we are seeing in Maha...and Arnav tries to explain.Love the point of classes of women within women...That's how I see it..No one ever damaged women the most but women."women are women's enemy"...Nice analytical approach ,very political as they want us remain busy in this and that's why media is still showing all Sab Bahu crap...I read some where once on IF ,let this whole two generation passed away then what...as new one is gone nail em...I don't agree with it as Cold viruses change their shapes and DNA and not  a single meds can finish em yet they have tendency to change and replicate...and that's what this whole fiasco is...not going to finish, may be emerged with different shape...

Yes wiwy a common person acts with logics...why the heck you let him play with you while he is committed to his gf but this show is "iss pyar ko kya naam doon' which we have and everything from illogical eye seems an aww momento and that was one of em...LOGIC and IPK...Which world you live in...Indi already warned me once when I tried to use it...What about you LOGIC and Wiwy's Riddles...My brain can't get that either...bolo jawab do...

Issk Love your Box analogy...indeed if they have some rules in their hands we all be breathing in their way but what way...just like Akash...Finalize the deal but what DEAL...so what deal do they have keeping us in that BOX...just to run their lives without interruption..MEN's world

BUT I have a question...for all of you...

Do you think Western World exempts from this?

My answer is no...the shape is different with different labels...commodity is same...

Achi my foot...I am good with Bad label...
.


arshi, for that in pink, taaliyan, Clap...

there is no culture on the face of this beleaguered planet that has not done crazy things to women. or so i think. why? some reasons seem clear, the others i have no idea of.

about women being women's worst enemy... up to a point. it is men who put us in our corrals, and then clutches of women, having seen the results of protesting perhaps, decide to give in and become "guards" of this way. simplistic, my picture is... but i know you'll add in the complex, deeper tones. 

No I have a same tone yet experience screams different...For me THIS IS ALL A GAME FOR POWER...and it just satisfies em so be it but women also are contributing in it...it's undeniable..

generations go by and everyone stops questioning.

in fact where i come from, this is even portrayed as wonderful for us girls. till one day something terrible happens, or you read of roop kanwar (beyond terrible that) an 18 year old in rajasthan, or something... or you see your beautiful grandmother giving away all her sarees with a dash of colour in them and wearing a pure white than (saree) because she's just lost her husband, all jewellery gone from her body, never to eat fish which she loves again... at some point you start asking, why.

and where it leads you is not a good place. Read it and yet it's not pleasant at all..you are forgetting the worse...shaving hair and joining the league of women of same traits ...Ashram

i don't wish to blame gender a or b beyond a point. what has happened has happened. but this is my world too. i am here. what i choose to do matters. or so i would like to believe. a bit of empirical, initial thinking regarding humans, men and women, needs to be done again i feel at times... i try to in my own way... will it make a huge diff? no, certainly not... but at least i did what i thought i should... guess i'll just leave it at that.
It's not a blame game ,it's analyzing facts and raising a question WHY? Why on earth is is being pictured through our media and gripping roots in our culture...very deep

the conditioning is so deep, sometimes i too will repeat meaningless things without realising... but try i will. maybe because of nothing else, just the most fantastic set of parents, who never ever thought a girl was less...

i do believe if mass media continues to show women the way they do, especially on indian tv (which has a humongous impact as it is watched widely and constantly across india and the subcontinent even)... it will only harm girls more. not only in terms of rape and other heinous things... but even in the everyday, the day to day doing of life... that is where this discrimination, this making use of a whole gender, this shutting her up with talk of tradition and "achhi" hurts all the time. 

That is the point...what is the definition of ACHI...a person [forget gender] who can dance on other's tunes since from her childhood without having her own individuality as a human...


in the west, if i am not way off the mark, the film makers of the fifties or was it the forties, went into the whole achhi buri fiasco re women and there were complex women characters portrayed who fit neither category, they were real, though sometimes not so "good" and the viewer felt empathy.

in our films too we've had more progressive stories and portrayals of women... khamoshi comes to mind instantly. but the main issue here i suppose is most movies are really about the male character... he is the protagonist... she a mere support. once this idea is fixed... her character and its nuances autiomatically mean less and have less impact. when i look at khushi this is the sadness i feel. she strated out with so much possibility... and trust me, she could have gone all the way to being a tycoon, if she so desired, but what they did to her... barun himself has once said in barun sort of words that it happens in most stories... the man in the main guy.. not fair, but that's how it is.

i was just looking up "the three faces of eve" a movie my mother used to speak of and like (i think there is movie with nargis in the lead which is the hindi remake, i am pretty sure actually, the name escapes me). wiki tells me,

"
The Three Faces of Eve also became the first film to win the Best Actress award without getting nominated in another category, and the last for nearly 31 years until Jodie Foster won the award for The Accused the film's sole nomination."

seems the west equally denies a place to the girl in a narrative. but my heart doesn't yearn to be given a higher status than men, just an understanding of us as people... with all the desires, proclivities, drawbacks, everything that makes us human.  

I don't know why it comes to the table that we want to show the superiority over men...My point is just listen and considerate us as a human being ...see and feel our presence...we are not toys...

i thank the west though for the whole women's lib movement, however controversial some things in it. somewhere i do believe i am here today because they were there at some point.

sorry i go on. but really, someone should write about the two from that marriage onward... we might find a real khushi who is as beautiful, flawed, strong, undeniable, human as asr.

sorry achhi bahu, me no wanna be you. there is a reason many of us identify with your laad gov, it's not because we want to be a man, it's because he feels real. he is both man, alpha male, and utterly human beyond just gender specifics. i hope some day you too can be seen as a person and not just a girl in a world made by men.
me and achi bahu or wife...LOL...YES I am a achi mother and that I care 
and have to add, when i read sohara, anita, soni's thoughts, i feel a sense of we are going to get there surely some day. i feel proud... yes, ladies, keep them brackets and the my sexy boys and the visuals and defiance and big heart and feelings coming.
 

I love them and REALLY WISH THE BEST FOR THEM...Smile

Just a little thought.
In small ways we can make a difference in the lives of women around us. Are we doing it? If we are then we are on the right track and have the right to hope for a better society.

While reading this I had a mixture of emotions.  While being raised in the west to an Italian American family, my youngest sibling is male.  I am the middle child, my parents eldest was also female.  My brother was god especially to my mom.  We still to this day call him the messiah.  He could never do any wrong and he walked on water according to mom.  Still, I never felt inferior, in a matter of fact I would fight for my rights to do things but I do remember me not being allowed to go away to college.  I am not sure if it was that my parents couldn't afford it (which I very much doubt) or girls just didn't leave the house until they were married.
Anyway I got married at 20 to a hateful, abusive man- maybe I just wanted to escape.  Needless to say you all know my story and I found my John because of it...now 32 years later!
What disappoints me is when I read the FF and all the girls write about someone biting them during lovemaking.  This disturbs me, for I have heard of love nips but not the description of actual biting.  Without going to deeply into this I "assume" (hate doing that), that this is an amorous part of the culture or is it the man's dominance over a woman?  I know that when lions mate, the male bites the neck/shoulder of the female showing his dominance until she submits.  Is not love suppose to be a sharing of each other in a beautiful way?  So like I said it disturbs me and I apologize for bringing this matter up especially to our youngsters they do not need to hear this.
In IPK what disturbed me, was how attracted I was to the ASR character, whom I in my POV, was very abusive to Khushi in the beginning.  He degraded her, physically man handled her and kept putting her "in her place".  Why was I so attracted to this terrible man?  But deep in my heart I knew he was hurt and his reactions were because of this.  I still feel terribly guilty when I am attracted to the alpha, dominant male.  I play the role of the lowly female/ lion awaiting domination.  
I was watching a show called Jodha Akbar and I am ashamed to say I love it.  There must be something deep in my core that calls out for the dominant male and I probably was raised not knowing that a woman does not have to be dominated.  
Until we raise our daughters, (which unfortunately have none), with the belief that we are equals to men in all rights and aspects of this world, nothing will change.  When G-d created us, the story in my Bible states that we came from the rib of man, formed so he would not walk this earth alone.  People take that literally.  A woman gave birth to the G-d, he would never exist without a woman!  Men should remember this!  LOL
AND finally I hated the Khushi of the last few episodes.  I remember calling ArshiH and screaming about the Miss India contest.  Just like Miss America, Miss World, Miss Universe what's the point?  A woman's talent and beauty does not have to be judged at all.  The CV's could have had Khushi run the tilffin business or join AR Designs to prove that point.  Ughhh, absolutely hated it.
Our zany, cray girl was one to be admired.  I never felt that she was not worthy of greatness and love.  BTW of love the culture of the extended family and everyone living together.  The mother-in-law in charge and all the women helping to run the household and caring for the family.  This is a beautiful!  But if a woman wants to be educated and go out to work why not?  Some love to take care of family while others want to enter the business world, either way neither is wrong unless imposed and forced on someone.
Okay, my idle chatter and rant is done.  I love and respect all you wonderful women of this thread and we know no matter what we are stronger than anyone thinks!




my nineteen year old niece and i just finished a conversation about why we liked the screaming shouting manhandling mr raizada. and our feeling... a) we knew he was in pain himself, and b) somehow barun could sense and portray the tender beauty clean noble side of the man, even amid that chaos.

still, while many people felt there was no need for him to apologise, i did feel there was and i loved the way he chose to make a trip in the middle of the night to do it. i however did not feel the need for a major redemption thing and see how wrong you were asr track.

life. this happens that happens, no one's perfect, as long as there's love and respect finally, and an understanding, good enough.

everywhere, women are asked in various ways to be less, to curb, to hold back... this is the one thing i tell my daughter... never accept any situation where you are asked to be less. today i made her read the wiki entry on "misogyny," after five lines she said, her stomach felt queasy.

i love the mills and boon type, or at least the idea of him, but over the years, clear to me, i am not into being dominated. i liked the fact khushi always fought back... that sense of equal. you shut up (or that very sexy "shaat up" as hd75 says) and she replies after a few bouts of this, "aap shut up," nice. his equal. i always believed that is one of the reasons he fell for her, her guts, her indomitable trait, like him, he sensed she was like him... also that friction was exciting... no one spoke to him like that.

they made khushi into a what i have no idea. what the h was that mrs india thing... yes catering business anyday or even math tuition... but this?

love your post. i called my brother whom the mother doted on but pretended to be mad at... the blind spot. but then my dad had a thing for me i think, so it never really bothered me.

adam's rib, ah thesis can be written on that. or the song sung to the wife every sabbath in an observant jewish home... or the whole place of "bahu" in an idian home and the exalted position of "damad" the son in law... we need characters like asr in this world... for that rready to put up with some nastiness... woman enough to handle it.

biting? while hard kisses feel sort of exciting... uh huh to serious biting and things.



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Posted: 28 August 2013 at 10:37am | IP Logged
Clap
Originally posted by indi52

episode 173


"kiske naam ka akshar likhwana hai?" the letter of whose name, asks the mehendi maker of khushi

"arnav ji ka?" khushi reacts to the saree clad nk and akash's claim that this whole idea was asr's.

Beautiful confusion... maradona like i feel like saying, "hand of god,"

whatever it was, this mistake is the finest kind of aphrodisiac that will take two people all the way to arousal and an act. mehendi definitely will bring colour. and leave us in a bit of a state, trying to hold on to the hue, hoping it never fades.

compliments to writers... how perfectly a desired end point was reached without anything seeming forced or laboured. that "a" needed to reach that palm. how terrifically erotic it made the play of two hands in water, the conversation in a kitchen, and the feelings a girl is trying hard to hide... it made a predator hungry for his prey, the prey quiver for her killer... a simple "a" and look what it set off. Clapagree


not by chance i think someone's name begins with aleph, alpha, the hindi "uh," the first letter.

just realised his name begins with the first hindi vowel "uh" of "uh aa e ee" and hers with the first consonant "kuh" as in "kuh khu guh ghu". all "u"s pronounced as in "u" in "but." okay, she is technically a khu, but it still begins on the k sound... somehow when asr says her name, i always hear the "k" for an instant till it opens out to "kh."

so he begins the sacred vowel sounds. aum, the ancient pure word for the eternal, begins with, guess what, "a" of course.

and she begins the consonants that give body/frame to words.
here's a bit on "a" from wiki:

Alpha (uppercase ', lowercase ; Greek: lpha) is the first letter of the Greek alphabet. In the system of Greek numerals it has a value of 1. It was derived from the Phoenician letter aleph Aleph. Letters that arose from alpha include the Latin A and the Cyrillic letter .

In English, the noun "alpha" is used as a synonym for "beginning", or "first" (in a series), reflecting its Greek roots.[1]


i learn "kappa" or k in the greek alphabet is the tenth letter with a value of 20... derived from the phoenician "kaph," then i read something that makes me smile, so i share:
curvature, gravitation, thank g for science otherwise how would we understand love LOL LOL


"a," aleph, alpha, hindi/sanskrit "uh" are dense with meaning and essence... will mention just the hebrew one. emet, which means truth and is mentioned by some sages when they say "the seal of god is truth," begins with "aleph." 
of course there's esoteric thought there and a play with letters and ideas i am not too clear about.


arnav i am guessing begins with the same letter. of course, there is the "i am the alpha and the omega..." of christian theology, and more. "a" i have a feeling was not there by chance. even if you look at no reference... "a" is always the first, the beginning. and that is thrilling enough.

when nani ji commands that arnav bitwa be sent downstairs for this rule breaking idea, khushi is in palpitations immediately...
"
hey devi maiyaa hame phir se unki shakl nahin dekhni... hamari dhadkan bad jaygi..." hey dm, i don't want to see his face again, my breath will quicken...

so khushi does know what asr does to her, and it is exciting: heady, crazy, almost forbidden... and she loves it yet it catapults her into a mess. because maybe, she in her safety and stability idealising middle class world has never heard of such tumultuous feelings for a man.

there is no reference to this. just as asr has no real way of knowing love since he has banished it at a young age, so does khushi, who has some idea of love, not have any notion of this electric, invasive, untramelled sensation that rides through her at the mere mention of his name, and of course when she sees him.

that it is part of love... she is still to know perhaps.

at this point it is a sensation. one she feels she has to somehow contrtol... that is why he makes her so "pareshan." poor girl, i do feel for her, imagine being hunted by that man and completely in his thrall.

her vision is of an edifying love with taarey/stars falling in her anchal, his face appearing everywhere, but this uncontrollable dhakdhak... the feeling with a license to roam everywhere, all over her body and spirit and thought (does anyone remember a godrej crowning glory soap ad with dimple saying uses it "just all over my body," sorry thought popped up, felt a bit khushi like vis a vis this feeling of hers) ... this feeling unnerves her, a frenetic edge to it.

what a lovely stage to be in.

"chhote ko ho kya gya..." what's happened to chhotey these days, wonders anjali, doing things he never did.

funny part of course is that he didn't do what everyone thought he did, yet he does indeed do things he never would earlier. like that dance... anjali is wondering... hopefully this will help her connect dots.

the episode really played up a state of mind. of a lover in the grip of  a feeling... almost in a tango with it really. how it made her twirl through fear worry panic, leap into frenzy, gaze into her emotion, embrace it finally, and talk incessantly to her goddess, her friend, her own hidden recessed self constantly. who was dm really, i have often wondered.

asr was never there physically yet always there, in her thoughts, her sensations, her furrowed brow, her chatter with dm, her looking around, her catching di's worry, her questions, her desperate calls, her pacing, her feeling terrible that what she said about praying to dm so that she doesn't have to see his shakl may have come true.

arnav is nowhere to be found...

now kkg is really worried.

"chhotey kabhi aisa nahin karte akhir wo gaye kahan?" chhotey never does this, where has he gone? di is reaching panic. di is like this when it comes to her bro... and husband.

but khushi is slowly getting worried the way a family member does... in fact, as the minutes pass, her emotions reach a turmoil that feels even higher than di's. i loved this "confession" writers opted for. no one ever says the word, but if this is not love, what is.

kkg paces.

akhir woh hai kahan? where is he, wails di.

and khushi recalls her "pareshan" dialogue, she had prayed to dm that...

"par humne toh aise hi kah diya tha..." but i said it just like that... what a supreme kkg moment. she didn't mean it. looking at him looking so gorgeous at the door step, dripping with asr sexiness and those invisible killing pheromones, his "hi" almost doing her in, and all the dhakdhaks from the night before, she'd just shot back at him in defence... she didn't mean it, oh goddess, please don't take her seriously.

"hey dm, ye bewakoofi mei humne jo maga aapne woh iccha poorie toh nahin kar di?" hey dm, in my foolishness what i asked for, you didn't fulfill that wish, did you?

the parallel play of manorama trying to hold on to her place, grabbing mehendi wali, saree, jewellery, being nasty and childish as h carries on. really this mother in law/daughter in law thing is always tricky. whether you're as basic as mano or sophisticated, well educated, and

2 hours have passed... nani is asking for patience.. di is crying.. khushi is talking to him in her mind.

she can't take it any more. why isn't he picking up his phone... but even if he did, what would she tell him? what the?

she is so immersed in this, even payal's worried face and mano's tantrums can't take her away from it for too long. she has to has to reach him.

missing her pareshan man.

"nahin nahin hume janna bahut zaroori hai," no no it's very important that i know what's with him.

then another lovely khushi moment...

but why? i only told him to go away... beautiful little pause... all the feelings you can't put in words there... these are the signs of a feeling we call love. specific things in it. specific tremors, apprehensions, graspings, longings.

"pata nahin aap kahan"... come back... i am worried... dm, don't make my words come true...

"dial kiya gaya number iss waqt maujood nahin hai," the dialled number is not available...

again pace.

if he's not picking up the phone why am i so worried... hey dm, i just want that he should be ok, that's all...
conflicting thoughts around one clear emotion.

but if he should reply... what will i say?

"kehna kya hai... maafi mang lenge... hum dil se maafi maangte hain."


dil se maafi, ask forgiveness from the heart.
and she comes to her heart finally, bringing her feelings from all the places they've run amok in to the centre of it all, their right place, their rightful place. the heart. where only one person sits, reigns really, now.

and it is not by chance again, i am sure that he appears at that precise moment. she senses him, and turns. she can always sense him now... just that in the dressing room her nerves were so frazzled, they thought he was jiji, really kkg, your writers did know you well.

there he stands. that expression on his face. i thought my heart would stop beating. really what was that look. again a hunger, a terrible need, a stillness that intensifies it all. then it turned to something else. but that look... where was that from asr, and why? 

 The look of you were worried about me?  You were going to apologize to me?  You have feelings for me?

will be back to finish later got to run...

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indi52

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soni19sweet
soni19sweet

Joined: 12 November 2012
Posts: 20435

Posted: 28 August 2013 at 10:37am | IP Logged
Originally posted by cinthiann1758

Originally posted by salooni

Originally posted by supriya.arshi

Saloni ...the break is nxt week from 2nd september to 9th september!!

ok sorry
and thanks

I am having a hard enough time trying to catch up!  Need a break.  Now I am skipping epis.  disappointed. Cry


me too 
early five cloack 
wake up then till 10 cochin
then till 5 pm office
and then fully tired 
i have not watch since 171
so no editing also nothing Cry

The following 4 member(s) liked the above post:

supriya.arshicinthiann1758Katelynsohara

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