Crisp Bytes SC - 16th aug 13 (Page 22)

hotdogg Senior Member

Joined: 29 September 2008
Posts: 722

Posted: 18 August 2013 at 5:59am | IP Logged
Originally posted by twila


I just checked out that scene to be doubly sure  ... it is the beginning of the 4th July episode ... Smile

VC says ... BD had come with the Rishta ... " Par Tab Tak Nandu Ka Phone Aa Chukaa Tha Saras Ke Liye Kumud Ko Maangte Hue ... "

@ Arshii ... As for Pramaad Sudhar ... I do not think that is going to Happen ... It is a Complete  NO ... NO

They can not Twist the story so Completely on its Head ... they have been broadly following the Story and there is no earthly reason for them to take a 360 degree turn ...  

Good catch twila.
Have not referenced the older epi..
In either case, considering the CVs have conveniently changed the sequence in the temple discussion...the larger logic of VC making a wrong judgement and the destiny angle remains good still.

As for Pramad sudhaar...what concerns me is the 30 days ki kasam to mend relations made by consistency CVs have shown with both kumud & saras is all such deadline type kasams has been won by the person who made it...

IF SLB is out & new PH is in...this could be very much on!...Cry

Next week will show more clarity..

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happychappy IF-Dazzler

Joined: 10 April 2013
Posts: 2524

Posted: 18 August 2013 at 6:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by hotdogg


Kumud - The character
1) Kumud is a "Vatt No Katko"... Vatt meaning not ego & Katko meaning a piece...Vatt denotes a very high level of self-esteem / self-respect...which often is mistaken for arrogance...sort of like 'Mera Chehra Dekhe Bina Hi Naa Kaise Bol Diya!" see me and then refuse if needed...without seeing me how can you decide!
...the 2nd time he rejected her PERSONALLY..after all the mind, body, soul, PMS she's hurt and feels the "Meine poore hosho hawaas mein yeh kiya hain""... ...she has thought it is not a hasty decision at all...more mind less heart...more like Its enough!


3)  And all that father's prestige,  sisters & Yash future...all that which is is denoting her primary reasons are actually SECONDARY.

4) For her the easy way out is to leave BD house...her father and Deasi's will be on her side anyway. Saras is ready & waiting to marry..

BUT if she agrees to return:
(i) it is a blow to her self-esteem ...sort of like thukrake shaadi ki... not due to the
Haq of her love but like second's ...

(ii) it proves her father wrong...thereby shattering his self-belief permenantly.

IF she succeeds she helps him regain his self-confidence ...his judgements do not cause harm..and so he begins to heal...and resores his confidence...also her Vatt is maintained...

5) The destiny angle is that kumud is now like If Life gives you lemons, make lemonade!

Hgg, this PRIMARY  interpretation discounts Kumud's emotional intelligence quite a bit...

A bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face? Another image that springs to mind is the Kalidas anecdote of man sitting on branch of tree and busily sawing through the branch he is sitting on...

In the long or short run, living with a bad marriage can kill you in a million ways, every day...As K is experiencing...

For me, at least the doing it for others esp. parents/ siblings  made "some sort of" sense but for Kumud to have this as Primary reason rings strange... "Vatt no Katko" has always struck me as not at all stupid, so hoping she will get over this soon...Shocked 

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pasumarthisa IF-Dazzler

Joined: 19 March 2012
Posts: 3212

Posted: 18 August 2013 at 7:02am | IP Logged

A lot of discussion happened and was very interesting. Lot of past events were discussed. Here is my take on some of the comments.

Kumud strongly believes in marital bond. And it is her self respect and her dad's honor in question too. She can't accept saras so easily anyways.

 There was a mention about kumud helping Saras for dugbaa. Kumud didn't help Saras for Dugbaa. Sunny showed her the mirror when he said he thought there was an other reason. 

Even on Thursday she says to dugbaa that saras Ne dubaara dhokha diya. That was very insensitive. This statement has been used repeatedly. Even kusum used it in front of her parents n sunny. After knowing all they had to know about why he said no the first time, they still call it a dhokha. It was a mistake to write a letter and not tell VC. But dhokha? This is a typical fall back trait though. When there is anger on someone, people tend to build it up by adding few more issues that might not be mistakes. To make their case stronger. Kumud said this after she knows all she had to from saras and after she says she got all the answers in front of durga ma. It remains a dhokha. But calling it double dhokha? I wish saras heard it. 

VC said "Duniya ke sare rishte ek taraf aur kumud ek Taraf". I know very well how family background is important when choosing an alliance especially in rural India. But this is not early 20th century when the novel was set. After saras's phone call, VC should be more cautious. People become very suspicious of everything in such situation. So when all their efforts failed with that call, they become wary. A thought on why pramaad is accepting this alliance, a thought on why bds are so desperate to have this alliance even at this point would have gone a long way. Waise BDs have lot of social standing. When they get a bahu whose alliance just fell apart, their social resoect/standing takes a lot of beating in the same rural set up. It doesn't work only one way.

VC doesn't need to know all market rumors to act. Alcoholism is enough to get him to check further. But he kept quiet. Hoping for the best. And if alcoholism is not a clinching factor, why was he crying like crazy as if everything is doomed. The way he cried was as if he knew all about pramaad n not just his alcoholism. Kumud's response was great. She said he still has right to make decisions for her. That's the respect for her father. I liked that statement very much. After all they were and are her support system. 

She never considered saras as part of her support system. Though he did a lot to gain their confidence like saving Kumar from marrying etc. Always confided the smallest thing with kusum. When saras tried to become her support system, that's one reason why she resisted.

Saras should stay out of this, but he didn't. He irritated her, warned her and what not. Kumud must have had a very hard time with this. But after each encounter with saras post marriage she came out stronger, more determined and more clear. Be it dealing with DV or her marriage itself.

Saras taking that wow was very symbolic. Earlier, he was doing it with some feelings for her. Now he considers it a sacred mission to save her marriage. And for any such mission he needs to cleanse himself. The shloka 'apavitrah pavitro vaa' is chanted to cleanse inside and outside. He did that so that he will help her without having any feelings of chaahat or love.

Edited by pasumarthisa - 18 August 2013 at 7:18am

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twila IF-Dazzler

Joined: 08 March 2012
Posts: 4500

Posted: 18 August 2013 at 10:33am | IP Logged
@ Shanti ... Beautifully Summarised ... A  Very Cogent Analysis .        Clap

@ Hgg Bhaaii ... I agree with your point about that Vow ... and that 30 days deadline ...

But turning Pramad Good  does not serve any purpose ... in fact it is totally Senseless from the story point of view  ... and what would be the motive for such a 360 degree turn from the original  ??

Hoping for the Best ... and can not do much except  wait and watch .        Smile

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smrth Goldie

Joined: 21 December 2009
Posts: 2239

Posted: 18 August 2013 at 1:30pm | IP Logged
I think, Gujjus are celebrating 'clan Rakshabandhan' collectively. Sisters, cousin Sisters and brothers with families etc...have attended  clan union and hence limited participation today...
Read some posts now and enjoyed brilliant discussions. Arshi you are on a roll today...always sharp, and today just blazingClap...
Hgg! Kumud ' Vat no kattako'! So apt.Shocked Saras is plain 'Dobo'. He should have consulted one of us before 'blundering' that 'fatal ( for him) phone meddleTongue...aren't we all so wizened with hard learnt lessons that our respective 'Vatt no Katko" has brandished us with, in our 'previous life'?Ouch -That is, a period before they officially passed us 'reformed'!!ConfusedLOL

Edited by smrth - 18 August 2013 at 9:41pm

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smrth Goldie

Joined: 21 December 2009
Posts: 2239

Posted: 18 August 2013 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by IdiotViewer

And another 'read' this about shloka recurrence you posted (a bit tangential) but I get unduly delighted when I find puzzle pieces fit for me LOL:

"Arshi, I saw it as the third "bind" in action (Three Mothers Theory). Saras, standing in for Saraswati. Thirty days, proclamation aside... But the vow, as the bind of Saraswati maa upon, Kumud tied by Saras. The final bind. Kumud is also associated to Saraswati, three ways with this: First, the payal (ehsaas) she still keeps, second, the same fate, promiscuous husband, she now shares, and third, Saras' vow to make Kumud's marriage work, by "channeling" Saraswati at significant place, added as assert of third Mother to the existing advice of Guniyal (accept hubby's vice/virtues equally), and the expectation of Saubhagya Devi (Pramad needs love to reform, you can provide that, with strive and patience)... Recall, Saras, pledging to fulfill a "lack" in Pramad Kumud marriage... That 'lack' I read as, passivity from all other Mothers, but full 'agency' from Saraswati, in the guise of Saras. Both other "Mothers" are giving advice, support, and heaping expectations, but this "Mother" will be more about "action"... Courtesy of "Mother's son"...  Dunno if I'm making any sense but... Confused"

Edit: Also smrth Bhai, pardons for belaboring the point, but you find no evidence of 'character meddling' anywhere in show? Even a monosyllable will suffice. I know by this point you must have typed yourself 'hoarse' Embarrassed

 How harmoniously you are analysing everything so clear!...'Three mother and their binds on Kumud'. You are an architect creative par excellence. And thereby building something that turns 'real' from 'abstract' which was gathered intuitively.Shocked..Do you want me to tell you what you have built?... Well, in the book, on Sundar Giri, Three mothers actually appear in spirit to 'liberate' Kumud from their binds. And thereby freeing her from her 'Sham' marriage- actual word by SD- and blessing/'joining' her with 'True husband- SC'. G.M.T. brought these three there: Saubhagya Laxmi, Dhrama Laxmi ( Kumud's Dadi- representing Maika- Gun) and Chandra Laxmi ( SC's mother- accepting her as bride).Shocked
This brings me to your question-  'character meddling' ; there are three majorly- apart from necessary contemporary adaptations; 1) SC himself 2) VC and 3) Saraswati.
1)While Sc has been discussed intermittently (changes), 2) VC is more or less 'rectified' here in spirit. I had noted this earlier, 'with basic change in characteristic script, along with change of actor, they have almost reconciled this character with the source'. Though Yatin C has secured goodwill of many viewers here- as along with first euphoric intake of entire ensemble in glow of original brilliance- every time i used to watch that VC, I used to cringe. What an OTT caricature of an original; Astute, scholarly, aristocratic and commanding, Guniyal's PM husband. In stead we had a bubbly, childish, OTT adaptation. So conspicuously changed and for a bad 'downing', I used to feel apprehensive over a recommendation ( SC serial) that I had sent to one my more discerning elder...Were he to stumble on that VC - instead all others that were 'reasonable' (in adaptation), he might frown upon me, ' What cartoon have you recommended?'Confused...That was mostly rectified with this VC and toned down script. I think SLB must have noticed previous anomaly.
3) Saraswati; this is a complete adaptation. Not only name, her entire story is 'invented'. There is no such 'betrayal' and 'suicide'. And she had no 'agency' other than a kind, sweet mother who was well loved by husband and died early and naturally. As we have noted, entire change was to make 'Hero' more relatable and tangible from its 'scholastic' aloofness- impenetrably glacial.( though thawed briefly and somewhat permanently w.r.t. Kumud, still inaccessible in the end). So when Chandra Laxmi appears on Sundar Giri, it was plainly for accepting her as 'wife' of her son. but nothing more...
Ivy, I hope I answered you correctly.

Edited by smrth - 18 August 2013 at 9:44pm

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smrth Goldie

Joined: 21 December 2009
Posts: 2239

Posted: 18 August 2013 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arshics

Originally posted by smrth

Friends, just saw the episode second time. It clicked amazingly well even execution wiseShocked...please hear me out patiently.
Arshi...your catch on Tulsi symbolism is exactly I had felt on very first view. Tulsi is maintained just in the angaan and worshiped. VC rushing to a venerated symbol of his household and accepting his 'guilt' was somehow more poignant than other offender's insistent 'apology'. But Arshi, nby the time i posted 'counter view' here, 'Tulsi' was already aligned with indignant anger here and i avoided a 'subjective' impression. Thanks for bringing this up. But Tulsi also has quite a shocking parallel, rooted in objective scene of the past...later, Before that 'execution';
Friends, let us remember, Cvs wanted to show us Saras witnessing 'unravelling' of entire family. Where else would they show us him 'watching' this? They have to bring grieving parents within his line of vision and earshot. And same time they have to keep him unseen. This was a perfect spot. Besides, all important symbolism. For VC, "oh God! I have not been able to protect most 'venerable' aspect of this house- the was a 'human' grief. A parent's grief. Nothing effeminate or masculine for me there. His apprehension, 'will my Tulsi bloom again?'Ouch
But more shocking, on very first view I was trying to remember something. I felt I am missing something...something significant. Well on second view  
Tulsi plant reminded me 'that' in a flesh... Saras was watching a tearing 'unravelling' this night. Would he remember? At very same spot, around same Tulsi plant, once before, he had witnessed a girl full of life, soaked in a rapturous bliss of her first love and a blessing rains from the heaven, had danced her heart out? The joy, exhilaration and bloom- which, not only he himself has shared, but had also precipitated! Would he remember a Girl celebrating her 'Dream coming true' at same spot? And NOW. would he relate- visible frost, withering all her songs and dreams and she embarking on a courageous 'meet the life headlong' feat? Night's storm could not be less symbolic. That day also he had told her, " tufaan aa chuka he"!  pure sadism- this tulsi spot.Dead

Why this scene was outside was clear at the outset - so that Saras could witness the full extent of damage he had caused, but why the tulsi - took time and your putting the line 'but she's not coming back' on the forefront, finally clicked. 

And another great correlation, that this is where she had danced - celebrating their love- this is precisely where he had to see the destruction! Superb, hats off to you smrth

There is one more relate in Sc watch. That day In fatal call Kumud had pleaded, " the marriage involves family too." He had turned it reverse...Today he admitted on witnessing the destruction, entire family unravelled- ghutan- was his word? 

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KK84 IF-Rockerz

Joined: 27 April 2009
Posts: 7139

Posted: 19 August 2013 at 6:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by shana0127

Originally posted by Arshics

Originally posted by twila

Arshii ...

" Aastha, himmat aur raasta, jab sab saath hon, toh manzil mil hi jayegi. So pramaad sudhar is bound to happen "       

What is this Buddy ...aisi Dil Todne Waali  Baaten Mat Karo Yaar...     Cry

Well Twila, my reading says, pramaad sudhar and pramaad end are both on the cards and then Samud Milan. 

Saras taking a kasam of 30 days, means that pramaad sudhar has to happen, but symbolisms of Saras being the real pati for Kumud are too many, so that also has to happen! 

So don't worry, happy ending is very much on! 

pramad soodhar wont happen i can bet on that ...though it may seem to happen for pramad is shrewed...he will use naveen and kumud weakness of seeing him good and then finally blame them into a illicit relationship Dead

why ...i say this...well in this show those thigs never happen which r most bound to novel too has same story where pramad being shrewed enough always uses kumud and naveen weaknesses

so basically its his death and kumud.s in laws goodness that will bring saras kumud into marriage 
yeah I have a feeling Saras will 'Suceed' in getting the two together but that will merely be a persception (hence the invered commas!!) as this will all be a part of Prammy's act. The minute Saras leaves...he will start his own game of belittleing Kumud.
to show himself all redeemed infront of his dad he may just act to be good but really want to find a reason for showing that oh Kumud has/is having an affair with Saras/Naveen.
(and above is similar to the novel too right?!)

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