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Crisp Bytes SC - 16th aug 13 (Page 18)

Arshics IF-Sizzlerz
Arshics
Arshics

Joined: 22 February 2012
Posts: 15789

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 9:02pm | IP Logged
Yes, Kumud is an outsider now, they have via marriage, transferred the most active of their haqq's on her to BD's... Might go in some ways to explaining their 'passivity' regarding her even? The hesitance to call, the fear to outright ask questions etc... And perhaps underscores Kumud's stand too, that I cannot come back, I have to make a go of my marriage... She accepts that she is a 'tulsi of their aangan' too... Plus, the emotions that VC could not unleash in front of Kumud, he did in front of 'tulsi' so maybe it functioned both as Kumud signifier and substitute for that scene? 


Yes, ivy, it's about haq and hadd here too. 

Once a girl is married, even today, her parents would hesitate to visit her, ladki ke ghar ka paani peena bhi paap hai. 

Though not practiced so rigidly, it is still a mindset in the older generation in north India, abt Gujarat, maybe Hgg and smrth can enlighten us. My mom will come and stay to babysit my girls when I and my husband are traveling, but for a holiday - it still has to be the reverse, to go to a bti's house just like that is still a no no for her! 

And in the rural context, the rigidity is bound to be higher, that is one mindset which still prevails, though not as strongly as shown here. 

So again brings me back to ' but she is not even coming back' said to Dukhba when she assured him that he had taken care of her

It had seemed odd then , but correlate it to beti parayi ho gayi - that he could care for Dukhba, because she let him, she came back into his house, so she gave him back the haq to care for her. 

And Kumud by not coming back, has reminded him of his hadd, could that be the significance of these lines? 

Your brilliant brilliant interpretation of the story as defined by hadd and haq - isn't that what's happening with VC , too? 

Since parents, extended parents can't go to the sasural, but younger siblings, particularly sisters are exempt from this rule, kusum then becomes the natural choice to go to Kumud's sasural . 

Again hadd and haq here! 

And smrth - that one incongruous sounding line, so out of place then , was the crux of the scene - amazing catch from you, as always! 

Kya karain, apni tube light der se jalti hai! 

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hotdogg-Ivy-twila

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 9:32pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arshics

Yes, ivy, it's about haq and hadd here too. 

Once a girl is married, even today, her parents would hesitate to visit her, ladki ke ghar ka paani peena bhi paap hai. 

Though not practiced so rigidly, it is still a mindset in the older generation in north India, abt Gujarat, maybe Hgg and smrth can enlighten us. My mom will come and stay to babysit my girls when I and my husband are traveling, but for a holiday - it still has to be the reverse, to go to a bti's house just like that is still a no no for her! 

And in the rural context, the rigidity is bound to be higher, that is one mindset which still prevails, though not as strongly as shown here. 

So again brings me back to ' but she is not even coming back' said to Dukhba when she assured him that he had taken care of her

It had seemed odd then , but correlate it to beti parayi ho gayi - that he could care for Dukhba, because she let him, she came back into his house, so she gave him back the haq to care for her. 

And Kumud by not coming back, has reminded him of his hadd, could that be the significance of these lines? 

Your brilliant brilliant interpretation of the story as defined by hadd and haq - isn't that what's happening with VC , too? 

Since parents, extended parents can't go to the sasural, but younger siblings, particularly sisters are exempt from this rule, kusum then becomes the natural choice to go to Kumud's sasural . 

Again hadd and haq here! 

And smrth - that one incongruous sounding line, so out of place then , was the crux of the scene - amazing catch from you, as always! 

Kya karain, apni tube light der se jalti hai! 

Beauty and potential of CB again in action, Arshi Clap All of us hold puzzle pieces, its just a matter of them fitting... Sometimes not in time, but still, der aaye, durust aaye Embarrassed

I am entirely bereft of contextual desi social knowledge so really appreciate all this background. 

So hadd and haq functions on so many levels of narrative here... Once again brilliant application... You are on a roll, Arshi. And thank you smrth Bhai, for repeated 'insistence' Clap

Bold: Yes, Arshi, this makes sense. As you say it has never been so outright depicted perhaps that's why we (yours truly, esp) were left floundering... But at this point, I'd prefer VC to at least verbalize some of his hadd's... Maybe we might get some sense of it, monday, itself. So sending Kusum, will be them both staying within hadd and exercising 'haqq' on Kumud as well, making the best of whatever societal constraints they now face with a married daughter, sentenced to a cruel fate. Crucially, a daughter who has opted to live that fate. 

Also to free-wheel here a bit... That 'haqq' lies with BD now? A BD, as per how we saw him last, left with a pricked and uneasy conscience... Reform Pramad aside, but if BD remains as conscious about Kumud still, this may lead to the discussions we had about that significance of beta/naukar motif's... One 'son' may very well replace another. This will be palatable to SP's version of 'Nayi Soch' as well... Again someone else will take decision (BD), and for overall good this time, with elders blessings, the estranged lovers may be re-united. Post Pramad-demise, of course. He has to die =)



Edited by IdiotViewer - 17 August 2013 at 9:33pm

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hotdoggtwilahappychappyArshics

Arshics IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 9:53pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by IdiotViewer

Originally posted by Arshics

Yes, ivy, it's about haq and hadd here too. 

Once a girl is married, even today, her parents would hesitate to visit her, ladki ke ghar ka paani peena bhi paap hai. 

Though not practiced so rigidly, it is still a mindset in the older generation in north India, abt Gujarat, maybe Hgg and smrth can enlighten us. My mom will come and stay to babysit my girls when I and my husband are traveling, but for a holiday - it still has to be the reverse, to go to a bti's house just like that is still a no no for her! 

And in the rural context, the rigidity is bound to be higher, that is one mindset which still prevails, though not as strongly as shown here. 

So again brings me back to ' but she is not even coming back' said to Dukhba when she assured him that he had taken care of her

It had seemed odd then , but correlate it to beti parayi ho gayi - that he could care for Dukhba, because she let him, she came back into his house, so she gave him back the haq to care for her. 

And Kumud by not coming back, has reminded him of his hadd, could that be the significance of these lines? 

Your brilliant brilliant interpretation of the story as defined by hadd and haq - isn't that what's happening with VC , too? 

Since parents, extended parents can't go to the sasural, but younger siblings, particularly sisters are exempt from this rule, kusum then becomes the natural choice to go to Kumud's sasural . 

Again hadd and haq here! 

And smrth - that one incongruous sounding line, so out of place then , was the crux of the scene - amazing catch from you, as always! 

Kya karain, apni tube light der se jalti hai! 

Beauty and potential of CB again in action, Arshi Clap All of us hold puzzle pieces, its just a matter of them fitting... Sometimes not in time, but still, der aaye, durust aaye Embarrassed

I am entirely bereft of contextual desi social knowledge so really appreciate all this background. 

So hadd and haq functions on so many levels of narrative here... Once again brilliant application... You are on a roll, Arshi. And thank you smrth Bhai, for repeated 'insistence' Clap

Bold: Yes, Arshi, this makes sense. As you say it has never been so outright depicted perhaps that's why we (yours truly, esp) were left floundering... But at this point, I'd prefer VC to at least verbalize some of his hadd's... Maybe we might get some sense of it, monday, itself. So sending Kusum, will be them both staying within hadd and exercising 'haqq' on Kumud as well, making the best of whatever societal constraints they now face with a married daughter, sentenced to a cruel fate. Crucially, a daughter who has opted to live that fate. 

Also to free-wheel here a bit... That 'haqq' lies with BD now? A BD, as per how we saw him last, left with a pricked and uneasy conscience... Reform Pramad aside, but if BD remains as conscious about Kumud still, this may lead to the discussions we had about that significance of beta/naukar motif's... One 'son' may very well replace another. This will be palatable to SP's version of 'Nayi Soch' as well... Again someone else will take decision (BD), and for overall good this time, with elders blessings, the estranged lovers may be re-united. Post Pramad-demise, of course. He has to die =)


Yes, Ivy. The haq completely lies with BD, and the responsibility of of Gun and VC, is transferred to Saubhagya Devi and BD. 

So she gives her the mamta, and he the protection - 'agar bahu ne shikayat ki toh...' Sending Saras to lookout for them etc. 

So the significance of Saras as the beta becomes important here. Also remember, she was made BD ki bahu, marrying his son, not pramaad ki patni, pramaad was not considered while fixing this match. 

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hotdogg-Ivy-happychappytwila

hotdogg Senior Member
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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 10:04pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arshics

Yes, Kumud is an outsider now, they have via marriage, transferred the most active of their haqq's on her to BD's... Might go in some ways to explaining their 'passivity' regarding her even? The hesitance to call, the fear to outright ask questions etc... And perhaps underscores Kumud's stand too, that I cannot come back, I have to make a go of my marriage...

Yes, ivy, it's about haq and hadd here too. 

Once a girl is married, even today, her parents would hesitate to visit her, ladki ke ghar ka paani peena bhi paap hai. 

Though not practiced so rigidly, it is still a mindset in the older generation in north India, abt Gujarat, maybe Hgg and smrth can enlighten us. My mom will come and stay to babysit my girls when I and my husband are traveling, but for a holiday - it still has to be the reverse, to go to a bti's house just like that is still a no no for her! 

It had seemed odd then , but correlate it to beti parayi ho gayi - that he could care for Dukhba, because she let him, she came back into his house, so she gave him back the haq to care for her. 

And Kumud by not coming back, has reminded him of his hadd, could that be the significance of these lines? 

Your brilliant brilliant interpretation of the story as defined by hadd and haq - isn't that what's happening with VC , too? 

Since parents, extended parents can't go to the sasural, but younger siblings, particularly sisters are exempt from this rule, kusum then becomes the natural choice to go to Kumud's sasural . 

Again hadd and haq here! 

And smrth - that one incongruous sounding line, so out of place then , was the crux of the scene - amazing catch from you, as always! 

Kya karain, apni tube light der se jalti hai! 


Arshi & Ivy-
Eureka! Please take a bow!!!

smrth-
@ Bold ...looks like we have reconcilation on VC Clap- both our perspectives are right but we were not able to connect the dots..

..And the Hadd & Haq equation resolves the behaviour discrepancy without sacrificing the character ...Thumbs Up
- your POV >> the passivity of VC character in last epi (now bounded by the Hadd though wanting to act with Haq he would want)
- my POV >> wish there was more active followup and kusum joining kumud (if true)  where active followup is still done (Haq) but within the parameters defined by the Hadd.

@ Red-
Yes this is so very true. We have that cultural obligations which go very deep. My FIL is a pretty modern 'with-it' person...yet he has this same thing about Beti Ke Ghar Ka Paani Bhi Nahin Peete...now of course he doesn't do this literally...but you should see the convolutions he goes through to square off 'accounts'... Wink

For e.g. We go out for a dinner and I pay...then within a few days he sends over a box of sweets or some such whose value would be more or less equal to his portion of the dinner tab...or if we go for a long drive or something... when I pay for the tolls presto at lunch / dinner he will do the 'setting' with the waiter then to hand over the food bill to him and not to me..that's one comic scene...the poor confused waiter and 2 guys saying ..give the bill to me!...Smile

Initially I used to not allow him to pick up any tab...but then he actually requested my wife to 'advise' me...(it was an off the records conversation between them, so I still officially don't know he's had this talk! Tongue) ...his request was that despite the modern world and the fact that the amounts in question are so insignificant...as per his cultural upbringing each time he did not square off the 'accounts' he would continue to feel he was breaking the tabboo...and would then feel more anxious that by him breaking such a tabboo some harm might fall on us...

So now both of us allow him to square off accounts when we go out ... so as to reduce his overall anxiety...    




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-Ivy-happychappytwilaArshics

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 10:07pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arshics


Yes, Ivy. The haq completely lies with BD, and the responsibility of of Gun and VC, is transferred to Saubhagya Devi and BD. 

So she gives her the mamta, and he the protection - 'agar bahu ne shikayat ki toh...' Sending Saras to lookout for them etc. 

So the significance of Saras as the beta becomes important here. Also remember, she was made BD ki bahu, marrying his son, not pramaad ki patni, pramaad was not considered while fixing this match. 

Right Arshi, I can discern two strands here, with building blocks being put in place for both:

First strand: Saras - Kumud - Kusum (their strive to do 'right', to not bring disrepute to elders)

Saras' vow, Kumud's resolve, Kusum's 'support' - all to make reform Pramad and make marriage work

Second strand: VC - Gun - BD - SD (the Elders and their eventual decisions)

VC's haqq transferred to a BD who thinks the world of Saras, he will even more so as Saras continues to save and protect his family... Being the 'beta' Pramad never was, by P's own admission. 

Bold: Also, add to that, the fact that Kumud has been fulfilling marriage rituals with beta 'Saras'... Even for pagh-phera she will return to sasuraal with him. 

So, both of these strands to culminate, needs but one catalyst: Pramad's death. It is imperative that even if reform succeeds, that it must be cut short by demise. Pramad is the anomaly here. Remove him, and equation makes sense. 


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mini7hotdoggtwilaArshics

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 10:21pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by IdiotViewer

Originally posted by Arshics


Yes, Ivy. The haq completely lies with BD, and the responsibility of of Gun and VC, is transferred to Saubhagya Devi and BD. 

So she gives her the mamta, and he the protection - 'agar bahu ne shikayat ki toh...' Sending Saras to lookout for them etc. 

So the significance of Saras as the beta becomes important here. Also remember, she was made BD ki bahu, marrying his son, not pramaad ki patni, pramaad was not considered while fixing this match. 

Right Arshi, I can discern two strands here, with building blocks being put in place for both:

First strand: Saras - Kumud - Kusum (their strive to do 'right', to not bring disrepute to elders)

Saras' vow, Kumud's resolve, Kusum's 'support' - all to make reform Pramad and make marriage work

Second strand: VC - Gun - BD - SD (the Elders and their eventual decisions)

VC's haqq transferred to a BD who thinks the world of Saras, he will even more so as Saras continues to save and protect his family... Being the 'beta' Pramad never was, by P's own admission. 

Bold: Also, add to that, the fact that Kumud has been fulfilling marriage rituals with beta 'Saras'... Even for pagh-phera she will return to sasuraal with him. 

So, both of these strands to culminate, needs but one catalyst: Pramad's death. It is imperative that even if reform succeeds, that it must be cut short by demise. Pramad is the anomaly here. Remove him, and equation makes sense. 


Oh yes 
Pramaad must die 

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hotdogg Senior Member
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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 10:26pm | IP Logged
look how bad we are...

openly praying for Pramad's demise...when all the poor guy wanted to do was eat, sleep, drink, pray(?) & love (kalika, padma)

LOL



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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 10:31pm | IP Logged
Hgg bhai, loved the anecdotal exposition LOL Very enlightening also, for someone foreign to it all Embarrassed

Yes, we are mean to 'Prammy' Tongue I am still waiting for Padma to come... It will be an interesting parallel, Pramad so intent on finding up "Saraswatichandra" and Navin stumbles upon Padma instead... LOL


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