Saraswatichandra

India-Forums

   
Saraswatichandra
Saraswatichandra

Crisp Bytes SC - 16th aug 13 (Page 12)

-Ivy- Goldie
-Ivy-
-Ivy-

Joined: 06 January 2013
Posts: 1008

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 2:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by hotdogg



...But I still feel that even with DV out of the context (which I have always kept out), I would have liked some more depiction of his urgency, concern and effort to at least find out more from kumud...Not doing so sort of 'dumbed' his character down to that of any other high TRP show - where the men though running million dollar business empires are just plainly passive like the furniture in their homes and who don't 'sense' any undercurrents playing out most times in full daylight ...making it a pure ladies-only playground...

It felt so blase...as if kumud told her that she failed in some school exam..and he's like what?..Why?...Why did I not take time out to teach you? ...and then going OK...do better next time...I know you will come out with flying colors the next time..rum pum pum...

Now if the context was same as the original (19th century) or VC character from beginning was
shown as a dignified, cultured, sophisticated man - a man of ideas but not so much action -  yesterday's response would have been fine... However, the VC adaptation here was of a smart businessman, socially adept, full of life, very hands-on, 'let me roll up my sleeves type of character'...<just for a moment picture Yatin's interpretation here>...this just did not gel with me..

And that is the rage on the U-turn I described...more for the character than the context...this character has now been successfully emasculated into just another high TRP show male member...

Bottomline: Come to the same conclusion...that's fine...but show you went through a process which is consistent with your character...I mean, he has done more to find out about Pramad (meeting the guys who knew him , collecting feedback etc.) before he saw it happen than what he did after he saw it happen...

Ivy-
I am not an expert...So I think that successful shows create characters whose 'features' eventually take a life of their own and transform some of them into role models because they connect & identify with the real life masses. When this image is finally createed only THEN can such characters successfully pass on the message...which could becomes the show's message...

You cannot jumpstart the process...i.e. have the show try to pass-on a message through a set of  characters which have 'features' which are at odds with the message OR which have not yet transformed into role models OR at odds with real life...

Here...kumud is the completed role model... So as long as she is shown fighting against DV within the limited choices she has...which in turn is basis the story context & circumstances...I am fine... the message is being delivered to the right target segment who in real life are in the same circumstances (i.e. young women in marriages where DV is an issue and who face the same binds she is facing)...So wouldn't bother too much about Kumud's family not 'getting it'...most of the real life people in the target segment also have family who does not 'get it'...So its all the more real..So its still Nayi Soch as far as I am concerned...

NOW the problem / rage for me comes when established role models like kumud are made to  reverse their 'features' / message overnight for sake of TRPs...that's where the show makers are committing a crime in my opinion...because that's really short-sightedness and being wholly opportunistic...


Which brings us to Caveat Emptor - Let the Buyer Beware - ...did we really think SP was out to change the world?...So the Topi is and always was on us as viewers...So more Rage...Followed by Depression of knowing I got conned...

Wink   


Bold One:

Hgg bhai, same rage here... Pardon me for saying so, but there was something 'effeminate' about VC's reaction... Plus taking recourse from symbolism, rushing straight to 'tulsi' effectively emasculated (perfect term!) him at that point. However, wider symbolism applied here, I read VC, Gun and Dukh baa all, as stripped of their "agency" from here on... Not liking this, but witness Kusum, at higher ground and Saras at lower, locked out, outside gates... Why would there be need to show Kusum at chatt out of all places, I wondered. Why not aligned with 'emasculated elders' but instead at attention like an armed sentry? Has 'agency' been transferred to Kusum now... 'Agency' that will not only put her at odds but also on a higher "moral" ground from Saras? Kind of like... My didi's so noble for soldiering thru, and you are so shameless for sticking on?! Ouch I don't read the two (Saras, Kusum) as "allies"... I don't read Kusum as being an ally in the most purest sense for Kumud even. Coupled with Saras' vow, she is gonna cause more harm than good. A headache, than support. Kusum has that potential to splinter Kumud's "crutch"... My biggest fear Ouch

Bold Two:

Not an expert either... I'm more the perennial student Embarrassed But yes, if Kumudsundari's ghagra's can become a mass fashion statement, why can't the 'model' herself? Perhaps, an elaboration of my 'throwaway' point but: the message, however you see it, is embedded. Here, we have added factor as well... 'Legacy' from original. Plus Hgg bhai, to thus to again widen optic, would not the 'features' be expected to also bear faithfulness to creator and in-line with telecastor ideologies (Nayi Soch, Star & creative integrity, SLB)? So, when you have two differing ideologies from outset, a "clash of titans' so to speak... Where does that leave "message" of show, if any? Confused With Pramad, and DV, the show enters a different ballgame althogether, the social onus becomes greater. It is not only about "empowerment" at abstract levels anymore (foremost Ratnagiri graduate, trail-blazer etc) but instead battered wife. A hard-hitting reality, that the show can be pulled up to answer for, if not tackled responsibly. From a story pov, it is condoned. But, when that depiction, becomes so visceral, so accessible to all via the medium, then wider impressions significantly, staggeringly matter. Words on page are one thing. But a daily show on television, depicting same in brutal glory, quite another. So yes, concur fully with you.



Edited by IdiotViewer - 17 August 2013 at 2:04am

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

hotdogg

Arshics IF-Sizzlerz
Arshics
Arshics

Joined: 22 February 2012
Posts: 15789

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 2:11am | IP Logged
@kat and shubsmayur 

By choosing to take liberties with the original track, the cvs have a number of options open, which could go either way. They also have become responsible for the message they convey. 

Had they chosen to be faithful to the story, then that would have been their only responsibility, as the story has already been inked. 

But now, they have to choose options carefully, for now it's their story! 

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

shubsmayur

KK84 IF-Rockerz
KK84
KK84

Joined: 27 April 2009
Posts: 7057

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 2:15am | IP Logged
Originally posted by arshicritic

Originally posted by hotdogg

Originally posted by P020167

Haven't seen the episode yet...but loved your post.

I am on vacation so will reply on your updates wheneverI will get a chance.


From your updates, one thing is clear, truth is out and VC family is in reality show now...no more "all about Pramad are rumors"...


30 days...does this mean after a month there is no Pramad :) It will be interseting to see how SaMud wil unite.


..in 30 days there won't even be a show to speak of...

SLB has / is probably moving out...SP has given an extension till Nov...there is a desperate rush to become more TRP friendly...

however, today saras has made a promise to himself that in 30 days he will make kumud's marriage with pramad work out...

So in line with TRPs...we could also see a Samud become a Pramud...courtesy saras who may become a platonic friend of kumud...and possible godfather to pramud's kids..





No pramaad will die, that is on the cards.

Everything sweet smelling and rosy - pramaad will be reformed - so Kumud wins, her family was right to let her go back with the sharabi

Pramud - will not happen - Kumud will remain, "wiasi hi jaisi gayi thi" oh he will die before their suhagrat happens.

Saras wins his kasam, so he is the hero

Pramaad dies, so Kumud is free

Widow remarriage - good social message,

All will bless it

Kumud again will do it for bapu, swallow her dard and marry Saras

So she remains the sanskari bahu beti

And sp will proudly tout the nayee soch

And we will note that:

No matter how bad a marriage, there's no getting out

Death is the only release

Remarriage only for family, not for self

Kumud was 'untouched ' by pramaad so is pure to be accepted by Saras

As I said everything sweet and rosy!

Pseudo nayee soch!

The real nayee soch - of a trail blazing woman who spurns marriage

Of a truly modern father who asks his daughter to get out before its too late

Of a truly progressive lover who will show her that she is wrong to cling to this relationship - not happening!


Arshi - playing devils advocate hard here but apart from that one incident she hasn't really faced domestic violence as she stood up to it...so this one month long marriage does have a right to have a second chance. I mean yes u can walk out but then it's like the whole 'these days girls don't understand the meaning of marriage. They don't value the relation' this society definitely exists.

If my husband was an alcoholic I can write it down in blood that my mum(who is pretty modern n has always given me great freedom) would say beta don't give up! You can change him. Have faith in God. Divorce is still a big taboo in our society as fear is always that then this girl becomes untouchable! N it's not just parents...it's also a fact that most men unless they are a divorcee themselves won't want to go down the alleyway of marrying a divorced girl so the fear in parents always remain that kahi their daughter doesn't end up alone her whole life.

In Desai's case it's even more sensitive as they have seen Dukhba all alone. Yes she has this big family but its always different having ur 'own' family n perhaps in that sense I understand where dukba is coming from. She has been thru being alone n not having a jeevan saathi n if Kumud wants to give her marriage one more chance then so be it. There is a choti umeed Ki Kiran that perhaps she can change Pramaad. She managed to change Saras!

The nayi soch that SP are pining on isnt that bad but i still don't want Pramad to change and for kumud to accept her as pati n all cos then i won't be able to watch saras kumud get married n now she is stuck in Pramaad memories!

Love the dies before suhaag raat bit!! Hehe! She can run in her shaadi ka jora and all nahiiin...full on filmy! (Yuck!!)

Hero is walking away in the sunset with his bag and kumud is running after him(after sasurji says jaa kumud jaa...jee le apni Zindagi mera beta to waapas nahi aayega!' Lol!!

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

happychappy

-Ivy- Goldie
-Ivy-
-Ivy-

Joined: 06 January 2013
Posts: 1008

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 2:20am | IP Logged
Originally posted by arshicritic

Originally posted by smrth

As rejoinder, fetching impressions from some older posts (about character sketch Saras)
CB 31 May P5...

Vaishali,
I don't know how far this perspective is correct. Rt. now am saying just from a viewer's watch point...about Saras too I want to say something...his 'adamance' has extra layer. What we are mockingly forgetting (Sanyasi to Romeo) is that, this character is deeply seeped in spirituality (much more so in the original). I was just going through my earliest post where I had put down my impression on this character. It is holding fast ( kudos to the Cvs for maintained consistency). One observation then was this trait. Coming to the point, spiritualism (earnest one, not a superficial) from early age has some amazing peculiarities. Foremost being a sense of a righteous equanimity that lends kind of a clarity in thoughts (even when they are wrong sometimes, like 'superstition' he held, just look at the conviction) and a steadiness...especially so when that mind is sharp, perspective and absorbing ( of course such mind would have same result- spiritual or NOT, but a certain doggedness with formal, i mean). Here under this attribute Saras may act in steely resolve, which though not intended to hurt someone, may end up doing exactly which was not 'intended', I feel.


And 'older impressions'...

... two windows to a Soul, His Eyes;

...They issue a dare; No lies, no nonsense would be suffered. The deal was simple. Candour and Frankness discharged, as well expected. They demonstrate a straight soul. Integrity so evident; Undiluted Honesty and Unblemished sense of Honour...But what was this? A tinge of sadness! In their unblinking gaze, a slight droop of the eyelids and carefully concealed in them- some melancholy!

I understood and liked Saras going to the spot where his mothers samarpan happened, it's probably, doing something for Kumud, and thus reaching out to his mother. Does he feel some sort of guilt - he was there, he saw what happened, but couldn't save him mom? 

So by saving Kumud's marriage, he is cleansing his own soul, taking reference from smrth? Is that so? 

But why the 30 day kasam? Isn't that TRP hero giri? 

Arshi, I saw it as the third "bind" in action (Three Mothers Theory). Saras, standing in for Saraswati. Thirty days, proclamation aside... But the vow, as the bind of Saraswati maa upon, Kumud tied by Saras. The final bind. Kumud is also associated to Saraswati, three ways with this: First, the payal (ehsaas) she still keeps, second, the same fate, promiscuous husband, she now shares, and third, Saras' vow to make Kumud's marriage work, by "channeling" Saraswati at significant place, added as assert of third Mother to the existing advice of Guniyal (accept hubby's vice/virtues equally), and the expectation of Saubhagya Devi (Pramad needs love to reform, you can provide that, with strive and patience)... Recall, Saras, pledging to fulfill a "lack" in Pramad Kumud marriage... That 'lack' I read as, passivity from all other Mothers, but full 'agency' from Saraswati, in the guise of Saras. Both other "Mothers" are giving advice, support, and heaping expectations, but this "Mother" will be more about "action"... Courtesy of "Mother's son"...  Dunno if I'm making any sense but... Confused




Edited by IdiotViewer - 17 August 2013 at 2:24am

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

happychappy

Arshics IF-Sizzlerz
Arshics
Arshics

Joined: 22 February 2012
Posts: 15789

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 2:24am | IP Logged
Originally posted by KK84

Originally posted by arshicritic

Originally posted by hotdogg

Originally posted by P020167

Haven't seen the episode yet...but loved your post.

I am on vacation so will reply on your updates wheneverI will get a chance.


From your updates, one thing is clear, truth is out and VC family is in reality show now...no more "all about Pramad are rumors"...


30 days...does this mean after a month there is no Pramad :) It will be interseting to see how SaMud wil unite.


..in 30 days there won't even be a show to speak of...

SLB has / is probably moving out...SP has given an extension till Nov...there is a desperate rush to become more TRP friendly...

however, today saras has made a promise to himself that in 30 days he will make kumud's marriage with pramad work out...

So in line with TRPs...we could also see a Samud become a Pramud...courtesy saras who may become a platonic friend of kumud...and possible godfather to pramud's kids..





No pramaad will die, that is on the cards.

Everything sweet smelling and rosy - pramaad will be reformed - so Kumud wins, her family was right to let her go back with the sharabi

Pramud - will not happen - Kumud will remain, "wiasi hi jaisi gayi thi" oh he will die before their suhagrat happens.

Saras wins his kasam, so he is the hero

Pramaad dies, so Kumud is free

Widow remarriage - good social message,

All will bless it

Kumud again will do it for bapu, swallow her dard and marry Saras

So she remains the sanskari bahu beti

And sp will proudly tout the nayee soch

And we will note that:

No matter how bad a marriage, there's no getting out

Death is the only release

Remarriage only for family, not for self

Kumud was 'untouched ' by pramaad so is pure to be accepted by Saras

As I said everything sweet and rosy!

Pseudo nayee soch!

The real nayee soch - of a trail blazing woman who spurns marriage

Of a truly modern father who asks his daughter to get out before its too late

Of a truly progressive lover who will show her that she is wrong to cling to this relationship - not happening!


Arshi - playing devils advocate hard here but apart from that one incident she hasn't really faced domestic violence as she stood up to it...so this one month long marriage does have a right to have a second chance. I mean yes u can walk out but then it's like the whole 'these days girls don't understand the meaning of marriage. They don't value the relation' this society definitely exists.

If my husband was an alcoholic I can write it down in blood that my mum(who is pretty modern n has always given me great freedom) would say beta don't give up! You can change him. Have faith in God. Divorce is still a big taboo in our society as fear is always that then this girl becomes untouchable! N it's not just parents...it's also a fact that most men unless they are a divorcee themselves won't want to go down the alleyway of marrying a divorced girl so the fear in parents always remain that kahi their daughter doesn't end up alone her whole life.


In Desai's case it's even more sensitive as they have seen Dukhba all alone. Yes she has this big family but its always different having ur 'own' family n perhaps in that sense I understand where dukba is coming from. She has been thru being alone n not having a jeevan saathi n if Kumud wants to give her marriage one more chance then so be it. There is a choti umeed Ki Kiran that perhaps she can change Pramaad. She managed to change Saras!

The nayi soch that SP are pining on isnt that bad but i still don't want Pramad to change and for kumud to accept her as pati n all cos then i won't be able to watch saras kumud get married n now she is stuck in Pramaad memories!

Love the dies before suhaag raat bit!! Hehe! She can run in her shaadi ka jora and all nahiiin...full on filmy! (Yuck!!)

Hero is walking away in the sunset with his bag and kumud is running after him(after sasurji says jaa kumud jaa...jee le apni Zindagi mera beta to waapas nahi aayega!' Lol!!

@bold - true Kat, sad but true, and being practical, the marriage does deserve a second chance, but its the glorification of Kumud's decision that bothers me. 

The decision as hgg has said in this CB, shouldn't have come so easily, where is weighing of options, acknowledgement of how risky it is. That is jarring Kat. The fact that Desai ladies were so easily accepting of this ! 
happychappy IF-Dazzler
happychappy
happychappy

Joined: 10 April 2013
Posts: 2524

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 2:35am | IP Logged
Originally posted by hotdogg



So in line with TRPs...we could also see a Samud become a Pramud...courtesy saras who may become a platonic friend of kumud...and possible godfather to pramud's kids.


Dead

Originally posted by Adiani

Shall we give  a chance to the aerial, when we surely know Pramad's character  is going to die? I am hopeful looking at Saras's character. Don't you think, inspite of huge popularity of GR, his character  is still doing wrong things and loosing brownie points. Maybe something is up in their sleeves. If I quit now, I'll not turn towards TV for many years to come..Hence desperate optimism now..

@Blue... good one, we all need a shot of that!Wink

Originally posted by arshicritic

If SC is sandwiched between - beta jaisa damaad show and sns on the left and bhabhi and behenaiin on the right, what chance did this poor thing ever have? 

LOL  and  Cry  we were lucky to have had the at least a short "golden age" of SC!


Originally posted by IdiotViewer

...Perhaps our dilemma would be non-existent if the period were true to source, but this has been turned contemporary, and personally, use of skype and "iPhones", is neither marker of, nor adequate representation of contemporary, for me. Contemporary is not the skyline of Dubai, but in the way Saras is. Contemporary lies not in place or technology, but in thoughts espoused, in the characterizations and the way crucial narrative situations are handled. And it is inescapable that in the course of such, "messages" are automatically disseminated. Whether show intends to or not, and also whether viewers actively seek it or not. SC is no exception. Therein lies the scope for nayi soch as well. If core essence of SC is not forfeited, many still view show as a microcosm and the characters as conduits for larger life-lessons. This is 'legacy' of source. Thus how Saras and Kumud are presented and what they do, matters in the larger fabric. Which undoubtedly goes beyond show. This is not a movie, inaccessible unless payment proferred. The default here is not "not watch", but rather "to watch". For the general audience, thought of changing channels comes much, much later.

Thanks, Ivy...Brilliant phrasing, there. Clap ...This is one of the ingredients in SC's magic recipe... Unfortunately can work both ways, great pleasure when it works and a tremendous jarring when they get it wrong like yesterday...


Edited by happychappy - 17 August 2013 at 3:21am

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

-Ivy-KK84

hotdogg Senior Member
hotdogg
hotdogg

Joined: 29 September 2008
Posts: 722

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 2:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by arshicritic

Originally posted by hotdogg

Originally posted by arshicritic

Originally posted by smrth

As rejoinder, fetching impressions from some older posts (about character sketch Saras)
CB 31 May P5...

Vaishali,
I don't know how far this perspective is correct. Rt. now am saying just from a viewer's watch point...about Saras too I want to say something...his 'adamance' has extra layer. What we are mockingly forgetting (Sanyasi to Romeo) is that, this character is deeply seeped in spirituality (much more so in the original). I was just going through my earliest post where I had put down my impression on this character. It is holding fast ( kudos to the Cvs for maintained consistency). One observation then was this trait. Coming to the point, spiritualism (earnest one, not a superficial) from early age has some amazing peculiarities. Foremost being a sense of a righteous equanimity that lends kind of a clarity in thoughts (even when they are wrong sometimes, like 'superstition' he held, just look at the conviction) and a steadiness...especially so when that mind is sharp, perspective and absorbing ( of course such mind would have same result- spiritual or NOT, but a certain doggedness with formal, i mean). Here under this attribute Saras may act in steely resolve, which though not intended to hurt someone, may end up doing exactly which was not 'intended', I feel.


And 'older impressions'...

... two windows to a Soul, His Eyes;

...They issue a dare; No lies, no nonsense would be suffered. The deal was simple. Candour and Frankness discharged, as well expected. They demonstrate a straight soul. Integrity so evident; Undiluted Honesty and Unblemished sense of Honour...But what was this? A tinge of sadness! In their unblinking gaze, a slight droop of the eyelids and carefully concealed in them- some melancholy!



I understood and liked Saras going to the spot where his mothers samarpan happened, it's probably, doing something for Kumud, and thus reaching out to his mother. Does he feel some sort of guilt - he was there, he saw what happened, but couldn't save him mom?

So by saving Kumud's marriage, he is cleansing his own soul, taking reference from smrth? Is that so?

But why the 30 day kasam? Isn't that TRP hero giri?


methinks he went there to kill himself...there were dialogues about 'coming to meet you mom types'...the guilt he felt had no other way to be absolved because he finally realised that in addition to kumud...he has destroyed an entire family AND there is no reversing the clock...then before the final dip...he again remembered kumud...and felt that what is she was forced to also take the path of her mom to end it all going forwards...

that's when he said I will forget my lov and better her marriage...which in turn is resetting everyone to previous state...a happily married kumud...But without saras...




Oh! That I completely missed out! Phir se dekhna padega.

But is it in Saras's nature to do something so drastic? Isn't he a fixer? The one who takes on burdens of work to ease burdens of souls - a part of his inflict pain on self! And by giving earned gains where he can't give love?


arshi..
his first instinct has been to back off...consistent with his background...in personal life he has never been the fixer...that has always been kumud.

he backed out the first time, then the second time and now too for the third time when he did not go and meet the desais

on the day of the fight with LN there was the scene when he was saying mom and moving towards the balcony ready to jump..and stopped by guman's entry...

I remember this because as he was walking I was thinking..so this is how he wont be able to meet her...he jumps, is hospitalized. ..guman blames his kumud fixation...LN calls off the marriage..this still absolves him in case they need to reunite again...

did not bring this up coz it did not happen..

but yes...he was shown as someone on the way to jumping off...

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

-Ivy-happychappy

Arshics IF-Sizzlerz
Arshics
Arshics

Joined: 22 February 2012
Posts: 15789

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 2:52am | IP Logged
@ Hgg, ivy 

Strange strange. Saras's wov - almost didn't happen because Saras has saraswati's tendency for suicide, and it did happen because of Saraswati, the third mother - the destroyer and protector in one! 

And it is always his replacements who pull him back - first time he would have followed her into the water, but Mai his nominated mother pulled him back

Second time from the terrace, his enforced mom pulled him back 

And third time, his love, the wife who replaces mother as the first woman in a mans life, pulls him back! 

Interesting! 

His trait of self injury, was that inherited from Saraswati, who carried it to the ultimate extreme? 


Edited by Arshics - 17 August 2013 at 3:11am

The following 3 member(s) liked the above post:

hotdogg-Ivy-happychappy

Go to top

Related Topics

  Topics Author Replies Views Last Post
Crisp Bytes SC - 14th Aug 13

2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 11 12

Author: Arshics   Replies: 92   Views: 5683

Arshics 92 5683 15 August 2013 at 8:16am by P020167
Crisp Bytes SC - 13th Aug 13

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Author: Arshics   Replies: 73   Views: 5283

Arshics 73 5283 14 August 2013 at 7:38am by khanrocks
Crisp Bytes SC - 12th Aug 13

2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 12 13

Author: Arshics   Replies: 96   Views: 6451

Arshics 96 6451 13 August 2013 at 7:45am by khanrocks
Crisp Bytes SC - 9th Aug 13

2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 18 19

Author: Arshics   Replies: 147   Views: 8729

Arshics 147 8729 12 August 2013 at 10:41am by happychappy
Crisp Bytes SC - 8th aug 13

2 3 4 5 6

Author: Arshics   Replies: 47   Views: 3823

Arshics 47 3823 09 August 2013 at 6:59am by Amit.Ghangas

Forum Quick Jump

Forum Category / Channels
Forums

Saraswatichandra Topic Index

  • Please login to check your Last 10 Topics posted

Check these Celebrity also

Disclaimer: All Logos and Pictures of various Channels, Shows, Artistes, Media Houses, Companies, Brands etc. belong to their respective owners, and are used to merely visually identify the Channels, Shows, Companies, Brands, etc. to the viewer. Incase of any issue please contact the webmaster.

Popular Channels :
Star Plus | Zee TV | Sony TV | Colors TV | SAB TV | Life OK

Quick Links :
Top 100 TV Celebrities | Top 100 Bollywood Celebs | About Us | Contact Us | Advertise | Forum Index