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Was difficulty in Jagya's new life a given? (Page 3)

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Posted: 18 August 2013 at 4:19pm | IP Logged
@sectoreight

You are missing my point.

It is NOT about Sanchi. It is about any girl who is to be the new wife and DIL. 

Though compare and contrast is natural in everything. Still it is different in family and in other areas like workplace or academic institution.

The sensitivity, expectations and decorum in functioning of a family are different than those of a workplace.

You talked of boss. Well an employee has no personal relation with boss. And though we all want to be in good books of the boss, we are not as sensitive about his or her treatment to us as we are about our family's treatment to us. You can leave job and look for alternatives. But it is not easy to look for alternatives or leave a family or a relationship since there are emotional ties involved.

Your replies again and again center around Sanchi. But I am not discussing her condition.

I am more focused on comparing "to be wife" with ex wife, that too, openly on their face. 

And if someone is really good or has qualities of the ideal standard - like Ganga, even then she is not praised for it uniquely. Rather we have words like "ekdum Anandi jaisi" that too on her face!

Is it fair?

In your family you look for love, you look for being valued. If your home is not going to value you for who you are and rather compliment you for fitting in a standard (that of ex wife or DIL) then how appropriate is it?

Singhs can compare and contrast in private. Why on anyone's face?

Why only Sanchi or Gauri have unique identity? Even Ganga is unique! And has her own identity!

Relations of wife and bahu are sensitive. A woman is always striving to make her place in family. Family should also then, have some courtesy to not keep comparing her to ex wife. 

Now Ganga has worked on herself and bonded with Singhs, right? But she ought to be valued for herself than get a validation that she passed the comparison with ex wife/ex DIL test.

Such comparisons don't do any good. They can't be brushed aside either. Some time or the other, they have all potential to affect anyone negatively.

Regarding "feeling good".  Of course, if you feel good then go along and if you do not then leave it.

Situation in office or school/college are different. Yeah, one may work to best of his or her capability to achieve a standard. 

But having ex wife as ideal that you have to work towards in pleasing your in laws and husband is bizarre. And even more bizarre, is elders of family, making a woman feel she is being judged on the ex wife scale.

Okay, Ganga feels good. But how long can she feel good? And can Singhs take her "feeling good" for granted and go on with their behaviour?

What if there was a girl who was good, had qualities and had no baggage but was compared to Anandi even if she was good? Any normal girl would, at some point, feel awkward.

And after marriage, even more, if she was compared to ex wife. That would imply she is still not accepted fully in family.


Edited by Skepblun - 18 August 2013 at 5:47pm

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Posted: 18 August 2013 at 5:09pm | IP Logged
@koolsadhu1000


I am not in favour of blatantly asserting your identity the way Sanchi does. 

But what I point at, is that even when someone does something good and praiseworthy, she is not praised for what she did. It is not, "You're so good". It is, "Hey! You're exactly like Anandi!"

Is it fair? Is it right or does it help anyone start afresh if constant references and comparisons are made to ex wife and DIL?Shocked

Ganga has quietly worked around and bonded with Singhs and Jagya. But even in praise, she is not praised for her qualities. But DS raves about her being "ekdum Anandi jaisi".

I do not think it is fair to her (or someone like her who has goodness and qualities to be ideal wife and DIL).

It is not always about ego. I think there is something called self respect too. Isn't it?

Openly comparing family members and relations is never advisable. Even among siblings. Here we are talking a SENSITIVE relation - that of a wife and DIL! And who is she compared with? Ex wife and DIL? 

Compare and contrast is natural human tendency. But in sensitive family matters, shouldn't it be done privately and not on people's faces the way Singhs do?

No one endorsed it when Jagya used to compare Gauri and Anandi (during that triangle track). No one liked it when DS deliberately kept Gauri in house so that all (including Jagya) could compare and contrast between her and Anandi. 

No one liked Sugna or Anandi even thinking about their exes though it was natural for them to at least think!

Would anyone ever tolerate let alone endorse Anandi comparing between her parents, former in laws and current in laws, even in her thoughts, alone to herself, let alone on anyone's face?

Would anyone have liked if Sugna or Anandi had praised Shyam or Shiv in comparative sense, saying, "Oh you're way better than Pratap or Jagya!"??? 

It is different to compare students, employees or products or places. But different and sensitive, comparing humans. That too, the ones who are in your home and are (or are about to be) in a relation as sensitive as marriage.Confused

I have a relative who divorced his first wife and years later married again. I miss his former wife and was closer to her than I can ever be to his second wife. Many others in family, like his second wife but do miss his former one and at times feel he made a mistake by divorcing her. BUT, NONE OF US ever talk about his first wife in his or his new wife's presence. We never compare his second wife to first one, in front of them. Even if we talk in comparison, we do so, in their absence. Rather our elders discourage such comparative talks and tell us to let it be and go with the flow. Everyone treats the second wife with respect for who she isRather, we all, don't even let her feel that she is second wife. I respect her and bond with her well. I maintain to my parents that my bond with her is not like the one I had with the previous one. But NO WAY, do I make it apparent to her. Each one of us bonds with her on individual basis. And no one compares her on her face. No one mentions that relative's former marriage to him anymore, on his face. 
Even when any of us find anything praiseworthy in his second wife - be it her behaviour, education, looks or anything else, we praise her as it is. No one says, "Oh you're better than the previous one!" or "Oh you have this quality but the previous one didn't!"

Everyone is careful in their words and conduct. And I remember that even when they were contemplating his second marriage, they would discuss "comparisons" or past only privately. And not on prospective match's faces!

This is how everyone has helped each other move forward and start afresh in life. 

I think if we had kept mentioning our affinity towards the divorced woman who is no longer in family, or kept making that relative feel ashamed or making him feel like he had made a mistake and kept the former one as a gold standard to compare and contrast with - OPENLY, then there was NO WAY that man would have moved on in life. He was also not ready for remarriage anyway! 

Such matters need tact and sensitivity in the way they are handled.

Can Jagya truly start his life afresh if he is forever reminded of his ex wife and if his wife to be or wife is constantly compared to ex wife?

Can his wife to be/wife ever feel emotionally secure and have satisfaction that she has a place for herself in this family and she is accepted in it, if she is compared to ex wife and ex DIL even in praise?

Or does a woman always have to be made to feel that she has to work or is working to progress in fitting in the Anandi model or filling some void?Shocked

"No you're not like Anandi!"/"Wow! That's much like Anandi!"/"Now you're completely like Anandi!"/"Hey you are better than Anandi!" - is this an appropriate way to talk to any woman, on her face?Confused

Shouldn't one also take care of others' feelings and self respect while talking?

It is not always about ego. There is something called self esteem and self respect. Isn't it?

It is not the woman's responsibility to keep the family together alone. It is also the family's responsibility to make her feel she is their family, she is accepted and valued there and she has a place for her own with them! 

One is valued for what one means to the family or one is valued for filling in others' shoes only?

These are family matters and not some reality show where contestants are being openly judged and compared and rated, going to next round or eliminated or getting wild card entries.

I do think a family should maintain a basic courtesy while talking to someone and do think about how one would feel, before just shooting words from their mouth.

Respecting Anandi, not being able to get over her etc., is fine. But open and constant comparisons are not. Or are they?

Comparisons do no good. But they have full potential to someday cause problems - whether done between siblings or bizarre - in case of spouses!

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Posted: 18 August 2013 at 5:19pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by SEETHA.K

IDEAL TYPE: A standard of comparison   gives us to see the aspects of the real  characteristics  in a clearer and systematic  way. In BV  Anandi is an ideal type for the Singhs; worked as a catalyst  in their lives.That's why  they are blunt  in' criticism  and praise'  with Jagdish and Anandi. That typifying  is creating conflicts  which is unfortunate  to Jagdish  and unavoidable for the Singhs.

Yes Anandi is ideal. And comparisons are natural. But why do it openly? Comparing is unavaoidable but comparing on everyone's face is surely avoidable!

For eg., if Ganga has done something that is close to ideal, then they should say, "Bahut acha kaam kiya", "badi adarsh ladki hai" etc. - I mean just compliment her for being good and doing well! Rather than blurt out - "Arre wah! Ekdum Anandi jaisi!" and go on laughing foolishly!

You are so good, you are so caring is anyday a better and more appropriate way to talk than, saying You are like Anandi (who is the ex wife and ex DIL!).

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Posted: 18 August 2013 at 5:19pm | IP Logged
The identity thing is important to some

Hard as it may sound , it is NOT at all important to some

So unimportant is it that those people don't even think about it

they think it is empty nitpicking when there r more meaningful issues in life , like helping the handicapped or fighting cancer or standing in a line for child's admission to a college in India

then there r some who think its terribly important . Their whole life revolves around this , they fel insulted if compared to some one else constantly .

Here i think 

Ganga belongs to the first type 

Saanchi to the second

Ganga has gone through so much in her young life , child marraige , domestic abuse , rape , divorce , she has seen it all

for her being compared to Anandi or any body else hardly matters .

Is it right 

ummm... again same answer comes to mind

DEPENDS

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Posted: 18 August 2013 at 5:22pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Skepblun

@koolsadhu1000


I am not in favour of blatantly asserting your identity the way Sanchi does. 

But what I point at, is that even when someone does something good and praiseworthy, she is not praised for what she did. It is not, "You're so good". It is, "Hey! You're exactly like Anandi!"

Is it fair? Is it right or does it help anyone start afresh if constant references and comparisons are made to ex wife and DIL?Shocked

Ganga has quietly worked around and bonded with Singhs and Jagya. But even in praise, she is not praised for her qualities. But DS raves about her being "ekdum Anandi jaisi".

I do not think it is fair to her (or someone like her who has goodness and qualities to be ideal wife and DIL).

It is not always about ego. I think there is something called self respect too. Isn't it?

Openly comparing family members and relations is never advisable. Even among siblings. Here we are talking a SENSITIVE relation - that of a wife and DIL! And who is she compared with? Ex wife and DIL? 

Compare and contrast is natural human tendency. But in sensitive family matters, shouldn't it be done privately and not on people's faces the way Singhs do?

No one endorsed it when Jagya used to compare Gauri and Anandi (during that triangle track). No one liked it when DS deliberately kept Gauri in house so that all (including Jagya) could compare and contrast between her and Anandi. 

No one liked Sugna or Anandi even thinking about their exes though it was natural for them to at least think!

Would anyone ever tolerate let alone endorse Anandi comparing between her parents, former in laws and current in laws, even in her thoughts, alone to herself, let alone on anyone's face?

Would anyone have liked if Sugna or Anandi had praised Shyam or Shiv in comparative sense, saying, "Oh you're way better than Pratap or Jagya!"??? 

It is different to compare students, employees or products or places. But different and sensitive, comparing humans. That too, the ones who are in your home and are (or are about to be) in a relation as sensitive as marriage.Confused

I have a relative who divorced his first wife and years later married again. I miss his former wife and was closer to her than I can ever be to his second wife. Many others in family, like his second wife but do miss his former one and at times feel he made a mistake by divorcing her. BUT, NONE OF US ever talk about his first wife in his or his new wife's presence. We never compare his second wife to first one, in front of them. Even if we talk in comparison, we do so, in their absence. Rather our elders discourage such comparative talks and tell us to let it be and go with the flow. Everyone treats the second wife with respect for who she isRather, we all, don't even let her feel that she is second wife. I respect her and bond with her well. I maintain to my parents that my bond with her is not like the one I had with the previous one. But NO WAY, do I make it apparent to her. Each one of us bonds with her on individual basis. And no one compares her on her face. No one mentions that relative's former marriage to him anymore, on his face. 
Even when any of us find anything praiseworthy in his second wife - be it her behaviour, education, looks or anything else, we praise her as it is. No one says, "Oh you're better than the previous one!" or "Oh you have this quality but the previous one didn't!"

Everyone is careful in their words and conduct. And I remember that even when they were contemplating his second marriage, they would discuss "comparisons" or past only privately. And not on prospective match's faces!

This is how everyone has helped each other move forward and start afresh in life. 

I think if we had kept mentioning our affinity towards the divorced woman who is no longer in family, or kept making that relative feel ashamed or making him feel like he had made a mistake and kept the former one as a gold standard to compare and contrast with - OPENLY, then there was NO WAY that man would have moved on in life. He was also not ready for remarriage anyway! 

Such matters need tact and sensitivity in the way they are handled.

Can Jagya truly start his life afresh if he is forever reminded of his ex wife and if his wife to be or wife is constantly compared to ex wife?

Can his wife to be/wife ever feel emotionally secure and have satisfaction that she has a place for herself in this family and she is accepted in it, if she is compared to ex wife and ex DIL even in praise?

Or does a woman always have to be made to feel that she has to work or is working to progress in fitting in the Anandi model or filling some void?Shocked

"No you're not like Anandi!"/"Wow! That's much like Anandi!"/"Now you're completely like Anandi!"/"Hey you are better than Anandi!" - is this an appropriate way to talk to any woman, on her face?Confused

Shouldn't one also take care of others' feelings and self respect while talking?

It is not always about ego. There is something called self esteem and self respect. Isn't it?

It is not the woman's responsibility to keep the family together alone. It is also the family's responsibility to make her feel she is their family, she is accepted and valued there and she has a place for her own with them! 

One is valued for what one means to the family or one is valued for filling in others' shoes only?

These are family matters and not some reality show where contestants are being openly judged and compared and rated, going to next round or eliminated or getting wild card entries.

I do think a family should maintain a basic courtesy while talking to someone and do think about how one would feel, before just shooting words from their mouth.

Respecting Anandi, not being able to get over her etc., is fine. But open and constant comparisons are not. Or are they?

Comparisons do no good. But they have full potential to someday cause problems - whether done between siblings or bizarre - in case of spouses!

Beautiful post ...i will reply later , just saw it

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seetha74atoministiny15

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Posted: 18 August 2013 at 5:34pm | IP Logged
@koolsadhu1000

I agree with you that identity or self respect may not matter to some. And especially Ganga who has suffered hell in her life and anything even slightly better than her past is like a blessing to her.

But I was referring to Singhs' behaviour. Look, we do not know if the other person will mind what we said or not. But we should try to think about it, no? Or do Singhs take for granted that Ganga will never mind?

Again I will give my relative's example. I know his second wife is a very simple and nice woman. As they say in Hindi, "ek dum gai hai" (as shareef and shaant as a cow). I and my family even know that even if she will be bothered by anything she will not express it to anyone (not even to her parents). She may think to herself but won't do anything to show protest or resentment. Still, on our own part, we try our best to be careful in the way we deal with her and never make her feel even that she is "new" in the family, let alone second wife! We always try our best to make her feel comfortable as if she's been with us forever. We always wonder if any word or action from us would hurt her or what would make her feel happy.

Shouldn't Singhs, given their experience and age, also try to be a little sensitive towards others' feelings?

It is not about what Ganga or any prospective wife for Jagya demands or might demand. It is more about what Singhs ideally ought to do.

Lastly, here it is Ganga so it is convenient. What if there was a totally normal and ordinary girl, with no baggage and no issues like Sanchi or Gauri? And not even a past like Ganga? A girl who was all nice and only wanted a happy relationship?

She deserved to be valued for who she was or rated on "Anandi likeness" scale?

Singhs are so foolish that I won't be surprised if someday, after Jagya is happily settled in his life and remarried, they blurt out, that it is Devi Ma ki kripa that despite all his failed relationships and all, he got a chance again and a wife as good as Anandi!Silly

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Posted: 18 August 2013 at 6:02pm | IP Logged
t is not about what Ganga or any prospective wife for Jagya demands or might demand. It is more about what Singhs ideally ought to do.

Agreed

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Posted: 18 August 2013 at 9:42pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Skepblun

. It is more about what Singhs ideally ought to do.
 
 
Skepblun, I understand where you are coming from.  I really do.
But I have moved beyond this perspective many many years ago of what others "should" do.
 
I know I will be unhappy if I rely on a certain person/people to do something a certain way so that I can be happy. That is trying to control the other person, and it is always a failing effort.  They are uncontrollable
 
I now just assess the situation and see whether it is for me or whether it is not.
 
If not, I just excuse myself from the situation.
 
And that is the point I am trying to make (with respect to Jagya, Saanchi and Ganga)...
 
The singhs will do whatever they do in the way they do it.
 
Then, people have only two options :
 
1. To stay in the situation
 
2. To get out of the situation
 
But staying in the situation and  just resenting it thinking "I deserve better, I deserve better, I deserve better, they SHOULD be treating me a certain way"  is just  not an option, and if one goes through that option, then one is setting oneself up for a lifetime of resentment and unhappiness.
 
 
 I only have control on what I should do and focus on behaving in that way only if I see the situation is not for me.  It is too much for me to push against a system/framework that already is.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by sectoreight - 18 August 2013 at 9:54pm

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