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Historical truth to be deduced from Ramayana (Page 3)

viper833 Groupbie
viper833
viper833

Joined: 26 October 2011
Posts: 149

Posted: 29 June 2013 at 10:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lucymoni

Originally posted by Surya_krsnbhakt

Originally posted by lucymoni

Originally posted by Surya_krsnbhakt

Very interesting post!
But one thing... you used Aryans and Non-Aryans. No offence, but the Aryan theory has long been trashed by archaelogists and historians.
But your interpretation is good. And yes, DKDM ppl are making one full new cuisine out of this, leave alone Khichdi and Aviyal!

the theory has not been trashed, in fact it is the most accepted theory among the scholars. Ouch And this very article is not my interpretation, it is a famous article of dr. R.C. Majumdar, a famous historian. It is his research. Big smile

Oh. Then the sources which we both read must be contradictory.


which sources did you read?.Smile
By far i have seen most of the scholars accepting the theory with their own modifications in it.
and even if we do not accept half of it, by evidences we are still bound to believe that there was an invasion. 


Aryan Invasion theory has been trashed by the coummuity  I think people currently looking OIT which is more accurate historically speaking.
They found evidence of thorugh carbon dating and looking at Historical sites. The OIT fits. The Aryan Invasion theory was generated by the west to act inferior.

Using  Ramyan as reference.
e
Lord Rama before he left for heavenly abode  he gave Bharat's soon the the farthest kingdom.
Talax and something else i can't  rember right now. Talax is in Western europe. Which started greeks.

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Intrepida

Roxelana IF-Rockerz
Roxelana
Roxelana

Joined: 11 December 2011
Posts: 5834

Posted: 01 July 2013 at 12:13am | IP Logged
Originally posted by viper833

Originally posted by lucymoni

Originally posted by Surya_krsnbhakt

Originally posted by lucymoni

Originally posted by Surya_krsnbhakt

Very interesting post!
But one thing... you used Aryans and Non-Aryans. No offence, but the Aryan theory has long been trashed by archaelogists and historians.
But your interpretation is good. And yes, DKDM ppl are making one full new cuisine out of this, leave alone Khichdi and Aviyal!

the theory has not been trashed, in fact it is the most accepted theory among the scholars. Ouch And this very article is not my interpretation, it is a famous article of dr. R.C. Majumdar, a famous historian. It is his research. Big smile

Oh. Then the sources which we both read must be contradictory.


which sources did you read?.Smile
By far i have seen most of the scholars accepting the theory with their own modifications in it.
and even if we do not accept half of it, by evidences we are still bound to believe that there was an invasion. 


Aryan Invasion theory has been trashed by the coummuity  I think people currently looking OIT which is more accurate historically speaking.
They found evidence of thorugh carbon dating and looking at Historical sites. The OIT fits. The Aryan Invasion theory was generated by the west to act inferior.

Using  Ramyan as reference.
e
Lord Rama before he left for heavenly abode  he gave Bharat's soon the the farthest kingdom.
Talax and something else i can't  rember right now. Talax is in Western europe. Which started greeks.


i myself do not believe in an invasion theory but even if an invasion did happen, it doesn't mean that they were not INDIANS. But we really can't ignore the facts, maybe an invasion did happen though its highly doubtful in my opinion.

About talax, when sumali (ancient ruler of somalia) could be ravana's grandfather than its no big thing.LOL


Edited by lucymoni - 01 July 2013 at 12:14am
varaali IF-Dazzler
varaali
varaali

Joined: 17 July 2006
Posts: 2961

Posted: 01 July 2013 at 2:53am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lucymoni


It is to be noted, however, that tht elast book of Ramayana, which was probably added at a later date, depicts Rama as having killed a Sudra for daring to perform the Brahmanical sacrifices, and thus betrays the lamentable progress of that institution in the interval.




This story has often come under scanner for what appears to be an rather partisan attitude on Rama's part, but there is an explanation. Please read patiently.

The Vedas were the bedrock of the society at that time. They could be studied, understood, recited and taught only under very strict conditions. They could be learnt only under a Guru, by a brahmachari, who is required to follow all the rules and regulations.

Now, the social ladder was fairly fluid- even in Treta Yuga. There was no blanket ban on Sudras learning or reciting Vedas. Yes, there was a rather parochial attitude that Sudras (and women, even brahmin women) were incapable of reciting Vedas, but- as I said, there was no blanket ban.
All that  a sudra had to do was to find a Guru, convince him of his ability and request to be accepted as his shisya.

But on no account could the Shrutis be learnt by overhearing, eavesdropping or simply by listening. Similarly the Shrutis could not also be recited anywhere and everywhere

What must have irked Lord Rama was Shambhuka's flagrant disregard to the rules governing the narration of Vedas- not just the fact tha Shambhuka was a Shudra.


Roxelana IF-Rockerz
Roxelana
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Posts: 5834

Posted: 01 July 2013 at 2:58am | IP Logged
Originally posted by varaali

Originally posted by lucymoni


It is to be noted, however, that tht elast book of Ramayana, which was probably added at a later date, depicts Rama as having killed a Sudra for daring to perform the Brahmanical sacrifices, and thus betrays the lamentable progress of that institution in the interval.




This story has often come under scanner for what appears to be an rather partisan attitude on Rama's part, but there is an explanation. Please read patiently.

The Vedas were the bedrock of the society at that time. They could be studied, understood, recited and taught only under very strict conditions. They could be learnt only under a Guru, by a brahmachari, who is required to follow all the rules and regulations.

Now, the social ladder was fairly fluid- even in Treta Yuga. There was no blanket ban on Sudras learning or reciting Vedas. Yes, there was a rather parochial attitude that Sudras (and women, even brahmin women) were incapable of reciting Vedas, but- as I said, there was no blanket ban.
All that  a sudra had to do was to find a Guru, convince him of his ability and request to be accepted as his shisya.

But on no account could the Shrutis be learnt by overhearing, eavesdropping or simply by listening. Similarly the Shrutis could not also be recited anywhere and everywhere

What must have irked Lord Rama was Shambhuka's flagrant disregard to the rules governing the narration of Vedas- not just the fact tha Shambhuka was a Shudra.



yup rama was a great king and there is a reason behind his every deed. nice varalli, south indians are always so intelligent. Big smile

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mnx12

varaali IF-Dazzler
varaali
varaali

Joined: 17 July 2006
Posts: 2961

Posted: 01 July 2013 at 3:05am | IP Logged
^^^^ Arrey no yaar, there are intelligent people all over India. You too are one among them
mnx12 Moderator
mnx12
mnx12

Joined: 02 August 2010
Posts: 20183

Posted: 01 July 2013 at 3:39am | IP Logged
Even I've read this version abour Ram. Shambhuk refused to follow the rules.
Intrepida IF-Sizzlerz
Intrepida
Intrepida

Joined: 26 August 2006
Posts: 10408

Posted: 01 July 2013 at 4:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lucymoni

Originally posted by Surya_krsnbhakt

Very interesting post!
But one thing... you used Aryans and Non-Aryans. No offence, but the Aryan theory has long been trashed by archaelogists and historians.
But your interpretation is good. And yes, DKDM ppl are making one full new cuisine out of this, leave alone Khichdi and Aviyal!

the theory has not been trashed, in fact it is the most accepted theory among the scholars. Ouch And this very article is not my interpretation, it is a famous article of dr. R.C. Majumdar, a famous historian. It is his research. Big smile

Its a theory, so not proven one way or other; I do not believe in it; 
archaeological evidence consistent with a mass population movement, or an invasion of South Asia in the pre- or proto- historic periods, has not been found.[2][3][4] At best, there is evidence of small-scale migrations approaching South Asia.[5][6] But, professional archaeologists in India remain quite skeptical.[34]
A 2011 genetic study "confirmed the existence of a general principal component cline stretching from Europe to south India." They also concluded that the Indian populations are characterized by two major ancestry components, one of which is spread at comparable frequency and haplotype diversity in populations of South and West Asia and the Caucasus. The second component is more restricted to South Asia and accounts for more than 50% of the ancestry in Indian populations. Haplotype diversity associated with these South Asian ancestry components is significantly higher than that of the components dominating the West Eurasian ancestry palette. Modeling of the observed haplotype diversities suggests that both Indian ancestry components are older than the purported Indo-Aryan invasion 3,500 YBP[63]
So that means that the Natives of this land had been there before the assumed "invasion"

I would hope the CVs would not stretch stories, yes the show is about Mahadev, but why do they forget Shiv-Shakti are same, if they show greatness of Mahadev, then why are they showing Parvati in more human way; And they need to work on their stories! LOL

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