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DonnaHarvey IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 17 November 2012
Posts: 13398

Posted: 17 July 2013 at 9:14am | IP Logged
1. Uhuh, this place reeks of mainsplaining
Not that we've got that image in our head, let's begin
2. I will not address your comment one by one again because GO TO STEP 1.

3. There are many things wrong with Indian feminist organizations (crushingly transophobic, LGBTQI exclusion, insisting on a dresscode & victim blaming. I can just hear the faux pity ringing on TV channels with she was asking for it written off in the background) but stomping on men's rights (if you insist on the existence of such a thing when the most privileged of fraction of the pie in India is men) isn't one of them. In fact, I would argue that putting aside the much needed ground work they had done for the rural women, the urban ones are harmed and not helped the practices of such charities (COUNTLESS cases of s**t shaming I tell ya). Whilst the women who make a majority of the demographic they cater to are either poor or live below the poverty line, there are others who have a stable income and their problems are strikingly different from those of the rural women. They do not need to be provided for as much as they need dignity, respect and equal opportunity (not to say the rural population doesn't need dignity but that they have physiological needs to fulfill in order to survive before they can think of such abstracts as respect) . The lobbyists aren't even close to addressing the advanced problems. They cannot think to close the gender gap when other looming disasters such as widespread sexual assault, no education, child marriages, domestic violence and human trafficking threaten to push the status of the majority back decades. The problems you have addressed giving anecdotal evidence are exceptions to the rule. They exist in ridiculously low numbers, often by manipulating laws through well paid attorneys. As much as we would like to think the laws are made to benefit US specifically, they are made for the majority and the majority suffers regardless of the existence of said laws. If you lobby for a mango, you are lucky to get a mango peel in return. If the feminist lobbyists (I am not sure anyone other than UNIFEM is even heard within the corrupt regime but that is beside the point) ask for jail time for primary convict + relatives in a domestic violence case, they are lucky to see the assaulter in jail for his sentenced term. The relatives don't even go that far. Lastly, being soft spoken doesn't take away from the fact that what is wrong is wrong. In a country as big as India, we are never going to have black and white, clear cut outcomes. There is always room for misuse but kindly do not undermine the sanctity of laws that actually help millions by weighing them against the (unverified) plight of a privileged few.

4. TL;DR Majority rules but that doesn't matter cause loaded lawyers will still twist the facts to your advantage should you find yourself in a "feminist" fix. Eh? Eh? How does it sound coming from this side? Not funny? Okay.

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maha2us IF-Dazzler

Joined: 29 October 2007
Posts: 2936

Posted: 17 July 2013 at 11:40pm | IP Logged

I apologize for starting this type of topic. 

Donna, I am not offended by whatever you say. 

There are good reasons why I have to apologize. Whatever I said are definitely facts and not some anecdotes I made. The reason the debate becomes not so nice is because this topic is too subjective for me. It may be true the domestic violence law or dowry harassment law is made for  people who have genuine problems but myself and my old parents are forced to fight a false domestic violence case slapped on us by my wife which is causing lots of problems for us and if not for the laws, I wouldn't have any trouble. I am not expecting sympathy from any of you. But this way I am makes my participation very different. And so I could not become reasonably objective and this could spoil the beauty of the debate. What happens is while this topic is sensitive for me in a way, it could be sensitive for you all in a totally opposite way and such is the way of male-female issues.

Probably those who debate have to tell based on what they know and not based on what they experience. May be I could go on telling everything I know in this area. But the reason I may tell could be trying to force some opinion on you all based on my experience. That is not healthy of me to do.

Thank you all for providing your opinions in this topic. I may still participate in topics and also start threads but that will be where I am reasonably objective and based on my knowledge and not my specific experience.


Edited by maha2us - 18 July 2013 at 12:09am

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starsinmyeyes IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 25 April 2013
Posts: 14647

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 4:26am | IP Logged
Contrary to popular belief of a male dominated society, in most cases, a man is frowned upon more if he shies away from responsibility...and this mind sent is a result of a deep rooted patriarchal society...

This society looks down upon a man who cannot be responsible enough for his family, fails to bring enough food to the table and fails to deposit enough money in the back's his job to control and manage all of the above because in this system, a woman is considered incapable of handling it...a lack in this department shown by a man, shows his lack of control and in turn brings a bad name for him...

Another outcrop of this society is a so called independent woman, who ultimately prefers and if I may daresay, sometimes uses her minority status for her own's much easier for a woman to say I am studying because I love it...a man needs a degree to get a job...and if they don't get it, they are looked down upon...

GredandForge IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 18 August 2012
Posts: 17709

Posted: 17 August 2013 at 4:50am | IP Logged
Originally posted by maha2us

Here I am pointing out certain observations I have of the society and certain aspects myself and some of my friends have experienced. This can be seen in continuity with the thread 'BEING A FEMALE' started by Megha Singh. I like to know your views on these points. 

1. In one family, it happened both the husband and wife had been unemployed for around the first fifteen yrs of the marriage. Both of them lived in the pension of the husband's father which was meagre. The wife could consistently nag the husband during a later period that he never went for job. The society also blamed him. But then the wife was not blamed for not going to job. Neither could the husband nag her as a lazy person. Does the society believe the husband has to financially take care of the wife? The society also ridicules the man when the husband lives in the income of his wife. But not the same way if the wife lives in her husband's income. Isn't this way the society behaves favorable to females?
In early ages, the life was simple. Men were able bodied and went to hunt and women had the responsibility to have kids and raise them which was no mean feat. The people respected women. The bread winning job of the men later gained importance when they turned it into a patriarchial society. These are so ingrained into the minds of people that they instinctively react towards it. I don't see how it is favorable when women are dependent for every single thing and are taken advantage of.
2. Whenever there is a case in which the husband and wife don't want to live with each other, the question magistrate asks to he husband is, 'Do you want to take care of your wife?' and the question he asks the wife is, 'Do you want to live with him?' Why the judge asks different questions to both the partners? Doesn't it seem the judge only sees the responsibility of the male and not that of the female?
Laws were set that way. The poor judge needs to get it changed before he can ask anything like that. Men have assumed the role of superiority, they need to face the consequences.
3. If a woman complains about her husband and her in-laws to the elderly people living in the same street or in the same colony, those persons all scold the husband and tell that he and his parents are responsible for her agony and they are not taking care of her well and they are harassing her. They give no importance to the husband or his parents' point of view. This is the experience of many males and their old parents. Why could not those people try to understand the point of view of both the partners and try to find how both of them could be made more responsible?
The majority always speaks. When you keep hearing atrocities on women always you obviously react to that. 
4. When a court orders mediation, those officers in charge of the mediation treat the wife with utmost courtesy but they all speak harshly to the husband as though he is guilty. Is the husband only guilty or is he the only person responsible to make a marriage work?. Why?
The root to all this is the established society norms. It has been so for many years. Everyone views the woman as a delicate being, the women themselves do the same. Unless that changes we cannot expect the above mentioned to be treated fairly.
I like to know the views of all of you based on these realities.

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