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BEING A FEMALE - ANOTHER SIDE (Page 3)

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maha2us

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maha2us

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Posted: 10 July 2013 at 5:01am | IP Logged
@Angie: You have said many good points in your post.

I am not sure whether the society was then in favor of women earning. But then this was a fact. The wife on whom I told about was definitely unemployed. But then her sister, SIL (her brother's wife) and her co-sister (her husband's brother's wife), all of them were employed and all were employed as school teachers. The point how the word 'lazy' came up was this woman used to tell her husband that he was really a lazy person. I do accept this woman was a hardworking housewife. Yet why she chose to be a housewife when her relatives and her neighbors were all school teachers and also in a situation in which her husband was unemployed? And another question which really comes up is no one blamed her for being unemployed while everyone blamed her husband for being unemployed and he was ridiculed as being lazy?

Interestingly there is one reason the husband claimed for being unemployed. He got jobs only out of station and his siblings left the town when they became employed. But he claimed his parents forced him to be with them telling he has to take care of his father when his father was paralyzed and they were not prepared to relocate.  

Still being unemployed, he was not able to financially take care of his wife or his family. I am not saying the husband or the wife are correct. But I am just pointing out the society norms are really complicated. and also that the society is not friendly to both men and women. Both men and women in order to rise up in life have to fight the  society norms

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maha2us

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maha2us

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Posted: 10 July 2013 at 5:19am | IP Logged
@Angie: Again based on your comments.

This is based on the reply you have given for my second question in which I asked why the judge asks two different questions to the husband and wife.

If the marriage has to work successfully this is how it has to be according to me. Both the husband and wife have to become more and more caring, compassionate, gentle, tender, understanding to each other as days go by. Both of them have to learn to become more with the partner, available to the partner and present to the partner. And both of them have to build trust for each other. These are the responsibilities I always believe which makes marriage works and for men and women these rules are the same. Even if a wife is not earning, she can take financial responsibility by being a thrifty woman and a good financial manager. Also in bed, she can be supportive of her husband.

But according to me what the judge asks seems to be such that the husband and his family members only have these responsibilities towards the wife. One judge said that the husband's family at times could not be a place where the wife could have found it comfortable because of the ways her husband and her in-laws behave. What I learn is what the judge says is absurd. Why does the judge say the wife has to be treated as a 'doodh peethi bachee'? She is an adult and she can understand her husband and his parents. If she finds husband's home is uncomfortable because of her false beliefs, how are they responsible?

What really happens is there are times the nieghbours also seem to tell the same. If the wife complains about the marital home in which she has to live with her husband and his parents to the neighbors, they claim she was treated badly by her in-laws. My question is, is she a 'doodh peethi bachee' who can be treated badly? She is capable of being employed if she is an engineer, PhD, MBA, doctor or therapist and so she could even walk out.   

maha2us

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maha2us

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Posted: 10 July 2013 at 5:31am | IP Logged
@Angie: You say, 'The entire set of questions present a feeling of victimhood at best.'

May be you are right. Men also have to learn to fight the injustices accepting that they have to encounter unfairness and biases in life and only those who fight these heavy odds could make it to the top.

But this can be sometimes frustrating. The entire domestic violence law for women is based on the false assumption of victimhood of women.

Some women claim that they were forced to be out of the job once they got married. What I learn is both the husband and wife as they get married have to speak up for oneself as well as the partner. If the wife chooses to be out of job when she really feels she has potential to shine, she has only to blame herself. A good husband encourages his wife to do what she likes and also helps her to shine. If she got a husband who has complexes, she could definitely walk out and go for job where she is comfortable and put pressure on her husband if he really wanted her, instead of crying like a victim. If her parents and siblings force her to live with the abusive husband and are not supportive to her ambitions, they are also abusive and they must also be booked and not just the husband. And once she gets married, she has responsibility to take care of herself. (Her husband has also the responsibility to take care of himself!) And so if she cries she is forced not to get job, she plays just a victim role and deserves not to be listened to. She has no right to say she is economically tortured by her husband and her in-laws.



  

maha2us

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maha2us

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Posted: 10 July 2013 at 5:42am | IP Logged
@Reeha: Your question:

How many more rapes, beatings, deaths is it going to take for Indian males to realize that this nation has very big gender socialization problem? That there is a sense of entitlement just because one is born with a Y chromosome (not all, but hey, it's there).

Definitely there could be gender socialization problem in India. But to solve the problems, the root causes have to be identified. What the feminists are wanting is stripping the males off all the liberties and giving them no voices and the Govt: is obliging them. This is the precise area I am fighting against and so I am not against females. 

And because of these laws, females are also suffering. What type of system in which only the complaint of wife is being listened? The law claims the husband's mother and sister abusive to the wife. Recently a mother and sister of a man committed suicide because of the false cases slapped on them by the wife of the mother's son. What society helps them? What law helps them? How are they to get justice? 

 

reeha...k

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reeha...k

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Posted: 15 July 2013 at 5:23pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by maha2us

@Reeha: Your question:

How many more rapes, beatings, deaths is it going to take for Indian males to realize that this nation has very big gender socialization problem? That there is a sense of entitlement just because one is born with a Y chromosome (not all, but hey, it's there).

Definitely there could be gender socialization problem in India. But to solve the problems, the root causes have to be identified. What the feminists are wanting is stripping the males off all the liberties and giving them no voices and the Govt: is obliging them. This is the precise area I am fighting against and so I am not against females. 

And because of these laws, females are also suffering. What type of system in which only the complaint of wife is being listened? The law claims the husband's mother and sister abusive to the wife. Recently a mother and sister of a man committed suicide because of the false cases slapped on them by the wife of the mother's son. What society helps them? What law helps them? How are they to get justice? 

 

That's part of the problem, most people- men and women alike- don't even want to acknowledge that there IS A PROBLEM, it's "could", "maybe", "in some cases", "isolated incidences" etc.
Feminists are not crazy women going out to "strip" anyone's rights, but rather finally break the glass ceiling and give women's rights- I'm a bit confused as the "stripping males of their liberties..." Ummm...where has this happened? Is there legislation tabled or passed to make this happen? Just because a few radical feminists may want this doesn't mean it's happening or even has an ice-cubes chance in hell of happening. 

The type of system you're against- and many women are against- is again culturally rooted from a patriarchal society- women didn't make those social rules and norms: MEN DID. And they are working very hard to try to change that- India is still 10 steps behind compared to other nations in this regard, but hopefully they will get there. 

This is by no means to say wrongs don't happen- like the example you've given- but let's be realistic here, that is a very small portion of the picture, the number of acid attacks, burn victims, rape victims amounting in India is mind boggling. In fact, I seriously wonder if this counter is just getting desensitized to the whole epidemic, "Oh, another gang rape? No biggie. Gah! Acid? Sheesh, they should come up with something new to do! Burning her alive! You don't say!"


As a third party looking in without any emotional investment in the judicial and social process of  the country, this is my strictly neutral and observational opinion. 

Before one goes observing the fading paint and chipping tile in a structure (as you are) they make sure the foundation is sound. And it clearly, is not. 

_Angie_

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_Angie_

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Posted: 16 July 2013 at 3:55am | IP Logged

Originally posted by maha2us

@Angie: You have said many good points in your post.

Thanks  Maha2us.

I am not sure whether the society was then in favor of women earning. But then this was a fact. The wife on whom I told about was definitely unemployed. But then her sister, SIL (her brother's wife) and her co-sister (her husband's brother's wife), all of them were employed and all were employed as school teachers. The point how the word 'lazy' came up was this woman used to tell her husband that he was really a lazy person. I do accept this woman was a hardworking housewife. Yet why she chose to be a housewife when her relatives and her neighbors were all school teachers and also in a situation in which her husband was unemployed?

Did your unemployed friend make it clear to the prospective bride that he was not planning to take up any employment  despite his qualifications and that she was expected to get into a job post marriage ? Why didn't he simply marry someone who was already employed?

 

And another question which really comes up is no one blamed her for being unemployed while everyone blamed her husband for being unemployed and he was ridiculed as being lazy?

Social norms as I already said before. To see an unemployed adult man sitting idle at home is not the norm in our country whereas a housewife doing the housework and not earning is quite a common sight. Not saying that it is right or wrong as things have to be seen in their proper context.

 

Interestingly there is one reason the husband claimed for being unemployed. He got jobs only out of station and his siblings left the town when they became employed.

Couldnt the woman have faced a smilar problem?

 

But he claimed his parents forced him to be with them telling he has to take care of his father when his father was paralyzed and they were not prepared to relocate.

 

Still being unemployed, he was not able to financially take care of his wife or his family.

Let me repeat, not getting a job does not explain why a person cannot take up something at home to earn his livelihood. There are lots of people earning quite well working  from their home. Depending on ones qualifications, skill, space available at home, neighbourhood, urban or rural setting, there are lots of options available to those who look for them. Let me mention a few- Home tutions, typing or transcription assignments, creche facility for neighbouring kids, food stuffs, packaging, nursery of plants, a small shop close to home or at home with telephone/xerox /fax / courier facilities and many more. Where there's a will there's a way otherwise one could come up with excuses and  more excuses. 

I am not saying the husband or the wife are correct. But I am just pointing out the society norms are really complicated. and also that the society is not friendly to both men and women. Both men and women in order to rise up in life have to fight the  society norms.

 

I fail to  see any complication in this particular case other than a clear lack of planning and sloth. The meager pension would continue only till the father is alive . If your friend  prefers that his wife should go out to work and he would rather stay at home to look after his parents and the household work he could talk to his wife and work out something agreeable to both.  He ought to have done that before he got married but better late than never. He could help the wife to look for a suitable job in the same city or town or both could call upon their entrepreneur skills. They can seek guidance and support from several NGOs, relatives, friends.  Its better to get moving before its too late  instead of lamenting at the unfairness of the society and its norms.

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maha2us

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maha2us

Joined: 29 October 2007

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Posted: 16 July 2013 at 11:01pm | IP Logged
@Reeha: You made your own interpretation of the word 'could' I used and I have to accept that is not the way, I used the word 'could'. Gender socialization is a broad topic and I am only learning the aspects in this area one by one and how things are in this World. In every society things are really complicated and that is more so in India which is a conservative society. 

You are asking about bride burning, rape etc. which it is claimed males do on females. But then what do we see these days? 98% of dowry harassment cases are false as admitted by supreme court. And that has been the case since 1970s when the dowry giving-taking was made illegal. And feminists make us believe that a lot of cases of bride burning happen in India and also that every unnatural death of a married women is due to harassment by husbands. It took long to find this is not true and feminists just passed off every female suicides as dowry deaths. Again 75% of rape cases are false. Just we are made to believe lot of bride burnings happened. Also there are reports saying Nirbhaya rape case is totally a make-believe story made up by feminists.

A simple question based on two points. The number of married women and unmarried women committing suicide are almost the same. What is the reason unmarried women commit suicide? And again number of married men suiciding is double the number of married women. If the law has to assume that a married woman ended her life as she was harassed by her husband, why can't the law say a married man ended his life as he was harassed by his wife?


maha2us

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maha2us

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Posted: 16 July 2013 at 11:08pm | IP Logged
@Reeha: You tell, 'Feminists are not crazy women going out to "strip" anyone's rights, but rather finally break the glass ceiling and give women's rights.' 

Unfortunately this is not the way of Indian feminists. If you read the text of the law, DV act 2005, you will find how much it is biased against males and how much it is misused also. According to that law, a man who refuses to have sex on anyday could be booked by law. Isn't it harassment on the male? And this act is not gender neutral and feminists welcome it despite we see the law being misused daily and males committing suicide. In fact feminists forced the Govt: to pass this law.

And most importantly, if a man is harassed by his wife he could apply only for divorce. But in India, if a female believes she is harassed, she has fifteen laws and the laws are only misused.

I don't know what is meant by, 'fading tile, chipping paint' etc. 

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