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Who will be the next Prime Minister of India? (Page 3)

Poll Question: Who will be the next PM of India?

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Forever-KA

IF-Rockerz

Forever-KA

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Posted: 22 April 2013 at 11:26am | IP Logged
Baazigar, some points
 
1) I agree that some of these acts were for positioning themselves for post of PM. That was my point exactly. When one comes into power one moves towards center. It could be due to that they were playing politics with and were not that serious in their ideology or it could be that they cannot promote their ideology because of political constraints. Whatever the reason they behave in more civilized/acceptable manner.

2) The difference between your and my posts is that your onus of blame is on leaders while my emphasis is on people. My take is that definitely leaders play an important role in coming up with these ideologies (anti Muslim, anti India, anti US, anti west) but eventually it is the people that make it sustain and have the power to reject it.

Pakistan was indeed a liberal society. Then there were 10 years of soviet war and during that an ideology of war through religious manipulation and with things like fatwa etc were promoted by middle east, west and Pakistan  People were trained to fight. Later that just spread and you had things like taliban, lashkars etc. Few directed towards India. Now its a big mess. Today there is tacit support among people. They blame west for using and many now apply same fatwa factory to kill even Muslims. For example some maulvi who has a support group gives a fatwa and there you go - suddenly shia killing is okay. You only need few.

Then there is passive support through

- fear
- shared dislike
- lack of other alternative
- washed brain

3) Of course one should fight such ideology  However I was talking about political extremists like Modi in your country and NawaZ Sharif and Imran Khan in Pakistan. It is known fact that Nawaz made seat adjustments with sectarian groups who are responsible for Shia killing these days. Obviously he is not for killing shias but it is passive support like that is the problem. Same goes for Imran Khan. He is not in support of killing civilians but by blaming everything on US and not speaking against extremists you are promoting them. Thats the problem.


So yes I was treating modi as that and not Taliban/Lashkars. Thats my idea of him. I hope he has not stoop that level. lol. Ideally publi should reject Imran and Nawaz type leaders or demand clarity or force them to condemn terrorists.

Hope I was able to explain where I am coming from. lol



Edited by King-Anu - 22 April 2013 at 11:27am

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Posted: 22 April 2013 at 11:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by King-Anu

First let me clear that I have no preferred candidate as I don't have much idea of Indian politics. My current understanding is that Modi is quite popular and can be the next PM. I also understand that many outsiders do not get this that how come an extremist person like Modi can even be considered let alone be a favorite to win. This is mind boggling to outsiders and that too about India which is considered a progressive country. I believe he was even barred from entry into US once.

I was one of those people who never understood this however this is how I have changed and do not care anymore. lol

1) In Pakistan he is obviously painted as an extremist. We had a certain view of him and I had same view. When I came to US, an Indian colleague of mine who was studying with me further solidified my views. I have mentioned him before. He is a physician and at the time of riots he was there. He was a hard core BJP supporter and often spoke against Muslims etc. Same old complaints of quotas and pro Pakistan. However one good thing about him was that he liked me (a Muslim Pakistani) lol. There are some strange contradictions in many of us. We were so close that we sue to eat, study together and helped each other  Basically I like honest people so I connected with him. I explained and clarified lots of misconceptions about Islam etc. He use to ask why did you guys leave India type questions.

Anyway he told me that yes the stories about doctors being asked not to treat Muslims etc were right. He also admitted that yes Modi etc are extremists and anti-Muslim. He revealed all. Obviously he gave explanations why such a mindset. However point here is that when an Indian, a Hindu and that too a BJP supporter tells you that then you believe it. lol. He also had issues with other Hindus who eat meat and spoke lot against Indians who do such things to please west. I wont go into that. lol.

2) Now the point is how come an extremist like Modi is so popular. Are Indians extremist? Is it because they hate Muslims? Is it because of Pakistan? On paper India is a peaceful democratic country who has never invaded anyone. How can they support such a person? Is it some sort of reaction to being passive in their history? Ok we will be aggressive now. Is it that mindset? I don't know the answer.

I am sure all of the above have a role to play. However in recent years I will add another factor and that I have observed in Pakistan. I have noted that many in Pakistan actively or passively support extremists. Like those modi supporters they look for lame excuses like US war, discrimination against Muslims etc. Another factor is that at times of calamities these extremist groups do work for people and then they have madrassas etc which provides them food, shelter etc. Point here is that even they can do good and therefore get support. It is possible that while Modi is an extremist (or a closet extremist) but many in India like the fact that he has otherwise done good things. Like economic development. Maybe the alternates while peaceful people are corrupt and not good in terms of running government. I don't know.

Lets summarize some factors that are present in Indian/Pakitanis/Desis when it comes to supporting extremists like Modi and extremist groups in Pakistan

- Fear
- Ethnicity
- Religion
- Discrimination excuse
- Good work done by them
- Shared hatred for other groups
- Lack of alternate

In conclusion I think it is highly possible that Modi can win. In the end the problem is us the people. We have our own issues and it is us who support such extremists. We will provide lame excuses but in the end we are ourselves extremists. One needs to be mature enough to realize that despite of lame excuses one should never ever support a wrong. Maybe in developed nations such people are less. It could also be that such phenomenon is there in developed nations but few have developed a system where such people are not promoted.

Pakistan will go for elections in few weeks and who are favorites. Nawaz Sharif has taken money from OBL, he stays quiet on extremists, blames US etc, his party has formed alliances with extremist groups who are anti-India and kill shias. On the other hand is Imran Khan who thinks all the Pakistan's problems are because of US. He once told an Indian journalist well I don't condemn these groups because our party workers will suffer. Well you condemn USA every other minute. Now he has condemned some groups but not all. We are talking to people who have beheaded civilians. Now who is to be blamed? I blame people. There is active or passive support. We blame west, US, India etc but stay quiet on extremists.

So yes I hope this puts into perspective why we see such odd things like support for people who have a history like Modi and in case of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan etc.

Modi is not popular among masses outside Gujrat, BJP is putting him as frontrunner so no one has choice. People in india get bored of Cogress and coalitions every few years and look for change. If BJP brings back any candidate than these two hindu extremists(advani and modi, thanckarey is already dead) then no one would object.
And then congress cleans its act to come back in power and the whole cycle repeats.
 
Your story is very interesting Smile.. I like Imran Khan on Pakistan side . he seems progressive to us outsiders..i have nt met any Pakistan hater in real life either.. its only when media or some extremists try to enrage people with those mutilated bodies pictures etc. but then everyone understands its people in power who want to spread hatred for their own benefit and some people with criminal mindset fall prey to them.. I know its exactly same on the other side of the fence as well.


Edited by lonely0planet - 22 April 2013 at 11:46am

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Forever-KA

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Forever-KA

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Posted: 22 April 2013 at 12:00pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by lonely0planet

Originally posted by King-Anu

First let me clear that I have no preferred candidate as I don't have much idea of Indian politics. My current understanding is that Modi is quite popular and can be the next PM. I also understand that many outsiders do not get this that how come an extremist person like Modi can even be considered let alone be a favorite to win. This is mind boggling to outsiders and that too about India which is considered a progressive country. I believe he was even barred from entry into US once.

So yes I hope this puts into perspective why we see such odd things like support for people who have a history like Modi and in case of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan etc.

 
Modi is not popular among masses outside Gujrat, BJP is putting him as frontrunner so no one has choice. People in india get bored of Cogress and coalitions every few years and look for change. If BJP brings back any candidate than these two hindu extremists(advani and modi, thanckarey is already dead) then no one would object.
And then congress cleans its act to come back in power and the whole cycle repeats.
 
Thanks.
 
Your story is very interesting Smile.. I like Imran Khan on Pakistan side . he seems progressive to us outsiders..i have nt met any Pakistan hater in real life either.. its only when media or some extremists try to enrage people with those mutilated bodies pictures etc. but then everyone understands its people in power who want to spread hatred for their own benefit and some people with criminal mindset fall prey to them.. I know its exactly same on the other side of the fence as well.
 
Well I got overboard there. Imran has not been in power so he cannot be compared to Modi in that sense. However he passivley supports extremists by blaming everything on US. Sure there are some who are fighting because of US war but those are mostly in Afghanistan. In Pakistan extremism is there against democracy, minorities, shias, moderate parties, india, girls education, polio vaccinations. These have nothing to do with US. Still he mixes things up and blames US Drones. HE knows thats not the problem. He is afraid + he knows that anti US sentiment is there so cash it. I dont like dishonest people. Still he is better than Nawaz who is just a hypocrite.
 
Edit: Sorry for bringing Pakistan in here. lol. However I cant speak for Indian politics much so decided to bring in my own experience from across the border. Please continue to discuss your issues. lol


Edited by King-Anu - 22 April 2013 at 12:03pm

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BirdieNumNum

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Posted: 22 April 2013 at 12:12pm | IP Logged

i just love all the bizarre interpretations here.LOL

1. setalvad is a saint. Let's see- the supreme court said the case against her was "spurious". But the court did not say that the witnesses she was speaking for had not lied. The court in fact thought other cases against her had merit. Somehow of course the 23 witnesses who came up with the same tall tales that were proven to be lies were not doctored. Okayyy. Sure.LOL 

2. setalvad runs an NGO. Yeah, that's an NGO by congress/ Indian standards. LOLAnywhere else in the world and she'd have her NGO shut down because she has been politically affiliated with the congress. From the 1990s, before Godhra. She has been funded by the congress and has been a rabid BJP hater. By the way, does the fact that she's married to a muslim have anything to do with her anti-BJP crusades? Or was it the money the congress gave her?

3. For 10 years, the congress tried every trick in the book to nail Modi. Starting with CBI investigations. No cigar. But of course, "everyone knows he is guilty". Yeah, everyone that's cuckoo.LOL Come to think of it, if anyone ran a campaign like that against anyone, by now they'd have unearthed a lot.  

4. Modi is an extremist. Sure sure. trying to represent the interests of 70 to 80% of the masses makes him communal and extremist. Disapprove

5. when it comes to Modi, the only thing that matters is the Godhra riots. For that, we will tolerate a bunch of scamming congressmen who have looted the country and whose policies for the past 60 years have kept hundreds of millions of indians, generations and generations of them, in poverty. But yeah, the people killed during the riots have more human value than the millions who starved because the congress had no agenda other than to scam and be in power on just minority votes. The pandits chucked out of kashmir and otherwise massacred by the nice peaceful folks there have no value. The sikhs killed in the 1984 riots by congress goons have no value. And of course, riots before, anywhere and everywhere, whether in Kanpur, Lucknow, jamshedpur, Hyderabad, meerut and many others, where more people lost lives have no importance...Because it was congress states and the congress can do no wrong because they are seen as bending their asses up for minorities.

6. the RSS is bad. Sure, they impose conservative values and the muslims and hindus like me have problems with that. It's funny here however thinking the muslims should have problems with that though. Arent they the ones propounding orthodox conservative values, even the shabana azmi types? I mean what are they trying in pakistan?

7.yes, Swamy is the best. But if it's between someone as much of an idiot as Rahul and someone as pro-growth/ adminstratively capable as Modi, it's a no-contest in my mind. A total knock-out.

8. it's funny how someone meets some dumb indian somewhere and extrapolates from that. They should try hanging out with some smart indians if they really wanna learn. Wink Come to think of it, the question of "why pakistan" did seem initially bewildering. Not any more. Am personally glad we built a nice long fence to keep certain types out.

9. yeah, they came for the commies. They still do. In civilized countries like the west. And they should not stop coming. By the way, nice try trying to equate the RSS with hitler. Only problem- that comparison does not work. It is a lousy one. The comparison would work well if you replaced rss with the ones professing love for medieval values.

10. .pakis hate indians, and indians hate pakis. Sure. With the kind of terror export from pak to india, i'd say there's good reasons the indians feel the way they do. By why do the pakis hate indians? Jealousy?LOL

11. the congress is secular and non-communal. After all, they have laws for the minorities just the way the minorities like it.LOL

12. bjp guys praising jinnah were trying to appease minorities in india? Buddy, you have many guys that support bjp that would also praise jinnah. He did indians a favor. Imagine having to live next to guys whose only knowledge of cell phones is how to set off a road-side device?LOL And who cant wait to blast themselves to high heavens because they cant find enough virgins on earth...LOL

13. and both pak and india are messed up. In india, we have countless parties iliving off vote bank politics and minority appeasement. The one party that purports to represents majority interest is considered communal. In Pak, the story is reversed. Is there any party of any repute in pak that works for minorities? Amazing that these guys could consider anyone in india communal or extremist given what they inflict on their own minorities. Takes a lot of chutzpahLOL

personally, i think folks hate modi because in him they see an end to their scamming, appeasing and getting appeased ways. I mean when certain minorities cant allow rights for anyone in their own countries, how can they allow hindus to have even equal rights in india? Equal is communal, minority appeasement in india is secular, never mind they dont believe in granting others the same rights in their countries. That's how it is with some folks aint it?LOL


Edited by BirdieNumNum - 22 April 2013 at 2:28pm

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Posted: 22 April 2013 at 12:17pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by King-Anu

Originally posted by lonely0planet

Originally posted by King-Anu

First let me clear that I have no preferred candidate as I don't have much idea of Indian politics. My current understanding is that Modi is quite popular and can be the next PM. I also understand that many outsiders do not get this that how come an extremist person like Modi can even be considered let alone be a favorite to win. This is mind boggling to outsiders and that too about India which is considered a progressive country. I believe he was even barred from entry into US once.

So yes I hope this puts into perspective why we see such odd things like support for people who have a history like Modi and in case of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif, Imran Khan etc.

 
Modi is not popular among masses outside Gujrat, BJP is putting him as frontrunner so no one has choice. People in india get bored of Cogress and coalitions every few years and look for change. If BJP brings back any candidate than these two hindu extremists(advani and modi, thanckarey is already dead) then no one would object.
And then congress cleans its act to come back in power and the whole cycle repeats.
 
Thanks.
 
Your story is very interesting Smile.. I like Imran Khan on Pakistan side . he seems progressive to us outsiders..i have nt met any Pakistan hater in real life either.. its only when media or some extremists try to enrage people with those mutilated bodies pictures etc. but then everyone understands its people in power who want to spread hatred for their own benefit and some people with criminal mindset fall prey to them.. I know its exactly same on the other side of the fence as well.
 
Well I got overboard there. Imran has not been in power so he cannot be compared to Modi in that sense. However he passivley supports extremists by blaming everything on US. Sure there are some who are fighting because of US war but those are mostly in Afghanistan. In Pakistan extremism is there against democracy, minorities, shias, moderate parties, india, girls education, polio vaccinations. These have nothing to do with US. Still he mixes things up and blames US Drones. HE knows thats not the problem. He is afraid + he knows that anti US sentiment is there so cash it. I dont like dishonest people. Still he is better than Nawaz who is just a hypocrite.
 
Edit: Sorry for bringing Pakistan in here. lol. However I cant speak for Indian politics much so decided to bring in my own experience from across the border. Please continue to discuss your issues. lol
 
oh cmon now.. is there any other topic more interesting than discussing India, Pakistan and politics.. I am surprised no one has mentioned Gandhi yet, he was Gujarati, Pro-Muslim etc..
Modi may pretend to be Gandhian but he comes across as modern Godse LOL..
 
Imran is right.. US IS root of all problems in PakistanLOL.. My vote goes to him or anyone who is anti-US.. if you notice post 9/11 tension between India and Pakistan has eased because US is busy dealing with its own terrorism...


Edited by lonely0planet - 22 April 2013 at 12:27pm

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Posted: 22 April 2013 at 12:29pm | IP Logged
Miss Planet and Mr. Baazigar,
 
I have analyzed the situation and I think US is NOT the problem. Well one reason could be I am in US lol. However I am not a coward type and speak what I believe in. I just dont see US as an issue.
 
1- We export to US and have no problem there
2- We come to US for education and have no problem there
3- We use US technology and have no problem there
4- While soviet was was for US, it also benefitted us Pakistanis
5- We take arms, loans from US
6- Pakistanis in US sent billions of dollars
7- We blame US for "war on terror" but clverly ignore that it was OBL that started it.
8- We are corrupt and bankrupt.
 
We are a hypocrite society. We are cowards also and therefore have found an excuse in US.
 
1- Who is killing Shias
2- Who shot Malala
3- Who is blowing up schools
4- Who is against polio
5- Who is against India
 
Is all that US? I dont think so. The west, middle east has a role in spreading the idealogy of war in 1980s however it was not a free for all exercise. It was mishandled later and today we have these problems. US is an easy excuse.

I am not a hypocrite nor I am a coward. As Baazigar said these extremists have killed 40,000 now. There are conspiracy theories as to why are the doing this. The problem is I dont believe in conspiracy theories.

We simply need to
 
TAKE ACTION
CATCH PEOPLE
SERVE THEM PUNISHMENT

Its a simple thing. However Imran, nawaz type leaders and biased pro-extremist judiciart is not letting this happen. This is what I think. lol
 
P.S I am feeling I am deviating from topic. This is Indian politics so I am pulling out now.


Edited by King-Anu - 22 April 2013 at 12:30pm

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Posted: 23 April 2013 at 8:12am | IP Logged
lol this debate should be about various candidates, not about injustices to muslims..

Forever-KA

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Forever-KA

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Posts: 5426

Posted: 23 April 2013 at 8:22am | IP Logged
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum


8. it's funny how someone meets some dumb indian somewhere and extrapolates from that. They should try hanging out with some smart indians if they really wanna learn. Wink Come to think of it, the question of "why pakistan" did seem initially bewildering. Not any more. Am personally glad we built a nice long fence to keep certain types out.

 
someone, somebody, someplace, somewhere, somehow, someday, somewhat. lol. lets cut this some some and address me directly.
 
so a physician from india who later went on to do a PhD from US is likely to be a dumb person? just because he does not hold similar views as yours.
 
edit: ok i wanted to reply to your india-pakistan rant however that would be another deviation. lol.


Edited by King-Anu - 23 April 2013 at 8:34am

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