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_Angie_ IF-Sizzlerz
_Angie_
_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008
Posts: 10160

Posted: 11 April 2013 at 11:35am | IP Logged
Originally posted by maha2us

@Angie: You say, 'What one considers as standing up for ones right may be seen as harassment by the other party.' if a person wants to fight for his/her own rights, he/she won't go to courts. In courts, both men and women don't get justice or get due rights. The only chance they get is for harassing each other because law has a lot of loopholes and the judicial system is very lazy.
According to me if things have reached to a point of no return then the best thing to do is get divorce by mutual agreement. It makes a lot of sense to settle the matter amicably without having to take recourse to the courts. Things generally tend to get quite ugly there. But if there is no agreement then I guess thats inevitable.

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peridot.-Aarya-boreddamsel

_Angie_ IF-Sizzlerz
_Angie_
_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008
Posts: 10160

Posted: 11 April 2013 at 11:50am | IP Logged
Originally posted by maha2us

And if a woman is not prepared to do her homework she could settle for a peaceful divorce. Instead a trend is made in India in which women harass the husbands in courts to part with hefty sums. Some men out of sheer frustration also part with money so that they could become peaceful.
There are all kinds of people in this world. One can only try to be more discerning before taking the plunge but I know the way things work here most people wouldnt have a clue about the nature of the person they are getting married to. Either the woman is greedy grabber or she feels insecure if she isnt a working lady or it also could simply be that she is out to create hell for the other party. So beware!
 
Originally posted by maha2us

But this is not a healthy trend. It is a healthy trend if women are encouraged to become engineers, scientists, pilots, astronauts etc. in which their creativity comes up. But how does it help them when they file false cases? An unfortunate aspect of courts is both the parties in a court case get chance to harass each other. I will be happy if women who are Ph:Ds, techies, scientists etc. work to excel in their fields and shine in the World. Instead how does it help them if they don't use this God given capability but only harass their husbands? An unfortunate aspect of these cases is they are not gender neutral.
Totally agree that its a uhealthy and despicable trend .Ones personality gets shaped by the influences one had in ones life. Could be good , could be bad.
 
 
Originally posted by maha2us

Probably this is my idea now. Let me accept that the law is not gender neutral. But why am I to be desperate? God is there even with people who are treated as less equals by the society. Men who are up against false cases can overcome this disadvantage which is possible only if they access God's power available to them and once they house God in their hearts they can do much better in the world.
Cheers,
We need to accept that each of us can make a mistake. Once it is realised we should take steps to rectify it. If thats not possible then brace up to face the consequences. Nothing can be too bad once accepted. If some settlement has to bee made do it if its feasible and worth the peace or be prepared to fight it out. Weigh the pros and cons of both options and  make a practical decision.
It need not be the end of the world , every incident iis an opportunity to learn something and move us on in our journey of life,  so cheers ! never lose hope Thumbs Up


Edited by _Angie_ - 11 April 2013 at 12:00pm

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peridot.

boreddamsel IF-Rockerz
boreddamsel
boreddamsel

Joined: 22 March 2012
Posts: 8280

Posted: 12 April 2013 at 9:25pm | IP Logged
I know personally about two types of divorces .. one where the man did everything he could to make the marriage work and on the other hand where the woman did everything to make the marriage work. In the first case, both were doctors and the second case both were "techies". So I will base my comments on these two scenarios. 

 I will be happy if women who are Ph:Ds, techies, scientists etc. work to excel in their fields and shine in the World. Instead how does it help them if they don't use this God given capability but only harass their husbands

I did take offense at this statement right here especially 'coz I'm a techie and scientist, who will hopefully in a few years manage to finish my PhD Tongue... 

What irks me is that just because of a few incidents that happened elsewhere, some people assume that well-educated and independent women cannot be good wives! If a divorce happens, they expect it to be the girl's fault .. all that education, money and independence went to her head.. she didn't know how to compromise. I have heard this with my own ears, so many times.. ! 

The husband of the techie I mentioned above was immature and also abusive .. but after the divorce happened, she was accused of having married him for his money (even though she earned more than him) and then blaming him unnecessarily 'coz he must have refused her money even though he was sweet and kind! I can give you another case of a husband who insisted on his wife (an MBA-holder) making him hot dinner every night, even though most of the time she came home later than him... and of course went cribbing to his parents about how the wife wasn't taking care of him! In both these cases, the wives tried their best to adjust and in the end, gave up 'coz they couldn't take the abuse anymore! 

On the other hand, the doctor I talked about.. his wife wanted to get married so she could get more freedom to do what she wanted. She neither cared about the husband nor about being married. The guy did everything he could to go along with her wishes, without complaining with the hope that he could make the marriage work. She and her family tormented him, finally when he sent the divorce papers, they abused him further saying the girl had done everything she could to compromise and it was he who didn't. 

The point I am trying to make LOL sorry for the rambling.. is that every divorce is unique, just the way every marriage is unique.. so please no more blaming us poor female PhD techie scientists.. LOL

Let me accept that the law is not gender neutral. But why am I to be desperate? God is there even with people who are treated as less equals by the society. 
[/QUOTE]

Law favors the party that bribes more Tongue.. that's how it works at least now in India .. hopefully that will change later! 
As for your topic, did you mean we should stop fighting for women's equality..? Do you think women are taking advantage of the situation and trapping men? As far as I know women have been trapping men even before feminism movements started .. remember the apsaras? Tongue 

Just because of a few such unfortunate incidents doesn't mean such cases should be discussed alongside cases, say like the ones Baazigar pointed out. 

I am no one to give advice, but the best thing the guy and his family can do is to move past the incident and move on with their lives! What is done is done.. there is no point blaming anyone! Just don't lose faith in the institution of marriage and hope that the next time things will be better! The doctor in the first case re-married and is expecting a child next month! Smile


Edited by boreddamsel - 12 April 2013 at 10:07pm

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moomin4455

boreddamsel IF-Rockerz
boreddamsel
boreddamsel

Joined: 22 March 2012
Posts: 8280

Posted: 12 April 2013 at 9:37pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by maha2us

@Angie: You say, 'What one considers as standing up for ones right may be seen as harassment by the other party.' if a person wants to fight for his/her own rights, he/she won't go to courts. In courts, both men and women don't get justice or get due rights. The only chance they get is for harassing each other because law has a lot of loopholes and the judicial system is very lazy.

Unfortunately divorces are messy! This is why some people just stay married and suffer! 
Mutual divorces are better.. but even they take time. 

I would say the best option is to get a good lawyer .. one who is smart and can actually make the other party realize they have no chance winning against you! 

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moomin4455

moomin4455 IF-Dazzler
moomin4455
moomin4455

Joined: 08 March 2012
Posts: 4146

Posted: 12 April 2013 at 10:54pm | IP Logged
While I understand where the TM is coming from - undoubtedly there are some women who do this and it's most certainly wrong - I agree with @BD and @baazigar that the number of these types of cases are vastly outnumbered by incidents where women are abused physically, sexually, emotionally and killed by disgruntled men over dowry issues or just because a woman is inferior in their eyes. That doesn't even begin to include female infanticide. 

One's experiences always stand out in stark contrast to statistics and reports. But it's important to also look at the big picture; cases of men being harangued by women are pretty much in the minority I'm afraid. 

Why do courts believe the wife rather than the mother or sister? Because often mothers and sisters collude with the male members of the family to abuse their daughter in laws  especially in dowry related issues - the cases that @baazigar highlighted are the tip of the iceberg. 

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boreddamsel

maha2us IF-Dazzler
maha2us
maha2us

Joined: 29 October 2007
Posts: 2936

Posted: 12 April 2013 at 11:13pm | IP Logged
I am sorry, BoredDamsel, the statement I made offended you. I can see I didn't make my point clear. I have nothing against female PhDs or techies. I have only complain against those women who behave like the female doctor you have mentioned. I know the case of one Phd and one techie woman who instead of utilizing their talents harassed their husbands.
The techie woman I am mentioning claims she is a gifted person who got frequent assignments in Europe. According to her, she even got assignments in Europe after marriage. But she claims she married her husband due to the insistence of her parents and also quit the job because of their insistence. And then she claims her husband and his family abused her a lot which according to her husband is all lies. Her husband claims she was pained because of the lot she made for herself and blames him and his family and what happened was only some verbal quarrels which happens in every home. And finally she went on to lodge cases against her husband and his family but stopped working. I have some questions. What was the need for her to resign her job to marry her husband? Why could she not assertively tell her parents what she wanted to do? The chances of her husband or his family harassing her is remote because she has means to take care of herself. She can insist her husband she wouldn't stop working in her profession. What helps her? Being in the job and shining in life or fighting her husband and his family in court wasting her energy.
 
I know another PHD woman who just resigned her job because she had to fight her husband in court to claim a hefty maintenance as well as to occupy the house he had bought with the loan from his company. According to her husband, she went on to quarrel with him because he got job in another city where she refused to shift.
 
What I know is a nice husband supports his wife if she is ambitious and on whatever she likes to do in life. He is prepared to live away from his parents if he could see that living with them is against the interests of his wife, if she could mention him clearly what she wants to do in life. This is how I had been to my deceased wife. I shifted to the city where she wanted to work because I knew I could do well in that city also.

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boreddamsel

boreddamsel IF-Rockerz
boreddamsel
boreddamsel

Joined: 22 March 2012
Posts: 8280

Posted: 12 April 2013 at 11:41pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by maha2us

I am sorry, BoredDamsel, the statement I made offended you. I can see I didn't make my point clear. I have nothing against female PhDs or techies. I have only complain against those women who behave like the female doctor you have mentioned. I know the case of one Phd and one techie woman who instead of utilizing their talents harassed their husbands.

Please don't apologize! I put a smiley at the end with the hope that you understood I was joking! I just wanted to point out that people do generalize like that..! 
I don't understand some people.. what happiness do they get out of torturing others? I'm unhappy, so I will make others around me miserable too??? Shocked
 
What I know is a nice husband supports his wife if she is ambitious and on whatever she likes to do in life. He is prepared to live away from his parents if he could see that living with them is against the interests of his wife, if she could mention him clearly what she wants to do in life. This is how I had been to my deceased wife. I shifted to the city where she wanted to work because I knew I could do well in that city also.

Agreed about the bold and that applies to a wife as well.. she should support her husband too, even if he wants to study at a later stage in his life, for example.
I'm sorry to hear about your wife! 


Edited.. 

Ok, just wanted to add.. those women must have had some mental problems. The doctor I mentioned.. he and his wife went for marriage counseling and it was revealed that she was suffering from some condition .. nothing serious, but something like issues adapting to new situations .. but that's how they managed to get the divorce in the end! No one in their right mind would do such illogical stuff! Normally such things happen in marriages when one is insecure or jealous or has ego issues or spoilt or adamant or just unable to adjust.. or maybe they might even be homosexual and not know it! 

The girl you mentioned was clearly depressed, and because of her ego, she wouldn't admit it was her own fault she was depressed.. and blamed her husband and her family. Baah, screw her! Your friend deserves better.. 



Edited by boreddamsel - 12 April 2013 at 11:54pm
maha2us IF-Dazzler
maha2us
maha2us

Joined: 29 October 2007
Posts: 2936

Posted: 13 April 2013 at 8:04pm | IP Logged
@Moomin: You say, 'Why do courts believe the wife rather than the mother or sister? Because often mothers and sisters collude with the male members of the family to abuse their daughter in laws especially in dowry related issues '
 
That means courts can believe the wife because in majority of the cases, mothers and sisters abuse the DIL. And so the court need not look into the merits of any case and just make a decision because  of what is happening in majority. Still my question stands, 'What kind of justice is this?'
 
Every case is unique and every human being whether it is male or female deserve to be understood and heard. Males and his family members also deserve fair hearing. And as far those women, who are able to work as doctors, engineers or MBAs or any other working woman, anyone can only laugh if she tells the court that she is being tortured by the family members of the husband.  All that she needs to do is take up another residence, concentrate on the job and put pressure on husband that the marriage would be continued if he prepared to stay with her where she is and telling him that what she wants to do is important for her. Good husbands understand what she says. This is in total contrast to taking the husband and his family members to the court and harassing them which nobody can accept. Probably if these women harassment laws were used by housewives and those who have low education and it these women tell in the court that the husband's family tortured her, what she says could have some merit and could be accepted. But then this issue became prominent because the laws 498a and DV act are (mis) used by women who are techies, doctors, PhDs and MBAs and others who can work.
 
Definitely everyone has right to fight for justice. But fight for showing your strength. But don't cry a victim, if you have means to help yourself.
 
Cheers,

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