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Ovi is too much DT note pg19 (Page 25)

Hillylove IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 8:32am | IP Logged


Thanks Kools, for making the point more clearly than I could, cause I know I am not crazy in my views.  That is why I was calling it an "engagement." because I know when families agree and the to be couple agrees, that is still a serious step.

I am sorry to hear about your Mother's loss.

You see, that is what makes rejoicing about Ovi's stillborn so tragic, because we women know what it is like to suffer in life, and so another woman must never wish such horrible things on another woman.


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KalapiFireLordPhoenixkoolsadhu1000.Senorita.

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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 8:46am | IP Logged
Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Originally posted by hillydee


Just to be technically correct, if you fall in love with a man and find out that he is engaged, and your personal value system does not prod you to leave him alone at all costs, instead you wait patiently for him to slaughter his fiancee, yes the accurate terminology is that you are a man stealer, boyfriend stealer, fiancee stealer, whatever word best suits. 

The fact still remains you are a stealer. Nice girls from nice homes don't do such things.  Also, their Mothers would not encourage such a marriage. 


Ah, you see I was careful, LOLI did not say man stealer, boyfriend stealer, or fiance stealer, I said "husband stealer, gold-digger, mother stealer and baby stealer" and Purvi is none of these.  Wink

Your definition makes Ovi a stealer too, she stole Arjun right back.  At least Arjun was not engaged to Ovi when Purvi and him fell in love with each other and Purvi knew Arjun did not want Ovi. Purvi did stay away from Arjun after the engagement, he declared his love for her to Manav in front of the D clan, broke off his rishta and relentlessly pursued her in the chawl.  

But Ovi has no such excuse, she knew Arjun was engaged to Purvi, she knew he loved Purvi and yet went right ahead to steal him.  

Good girls don't do that either, mothers don't encourage or approve of putting valued relationships at stake, bartering your dad's happiness (I will refrain from saying mother's happiness in deference to those who have said Archana did not raise Ovi so there was no love lost between them) because you are blinded by your own selfish need to acquire your sister's soon to be husband. 

Janhvi, I don't agree with you LOL that since there were no 'formal' engagement that they wasn't any validity of the promise made. I do not know about Marathi culture here (Kool, is an engagement always always done way before the wedding???), but where I come from these days the engagement itself happens just before the marriage ceremony. This is of course done to avoid additional costs and/or time etc. But, once the 'Paka katha' (promise is made) it is held in the highest esteem and honor. And if any parties fail to uphold it, it is really seen in a very very bad light. Many ppl actually have the "paka katha' given in the region I come from and then marriage happening in a few months, either because the groom is out of town/can't get vacation or simply cause wedding cost money/time  and ppl wants a grace period to get all their acts together…So, a katha once given is most often honored and if one fails to honor that, it isn't taken kindly. So, in essence, both between the Deshmukhs and Kiroskars – a "paka katha" was given, a promised was made and accepted. It was expected both parties will honor that 'word' given. Alas, both DK and Arjun failed here miserably, and the way they went about breaking their words was no way honorable….

As for Ovi's outpouring of heart grief, I didn't see anything amiss in the last two episodes….there isn't a protocol to follow while grieving, and the outpouring can come out anyway….let see how the CVs plan to proceed, but if she screams, cries accuses…well, who wouldn't in her situation…it has nothing to do with the notion of "changed OVi " should behave like this …er…like doing a aarti of Purvi and Arjun, maybe…

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HillyloveFireLordPhoenix.Senorita.koolsadhu1000Dabulls23

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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 9:04am | IP Logged
An engagement is generally done to announce to the society in 70 % of the cases but it is not mandatory at all if the two families r of average income group and decide mutually to do away with this function and directly go for the wedding as an engagement is a seperate function by itself that requires quite a lot of expenditure . Many families do away with it . An engagement is called the 'sakhar puda' in Maharashtra ...and many families think it is pointless to do so much kharcha on booking a hall  lunch  guests etc when all this is even done in the wedding itself . A sakharpuda is hosted by the girl's father and it is frankly a big drain on the girl's father's pocket so many a time the boy's party understands .

What we give importance , as u said , is the word . The word given or the commitment given . It is regarded as extremely shameful or embarassing when this word is broken . DK  in real life in our society would have slapped Arjun for his 'sacha pyaar ' excuse .

Both Arjun Purvi were wrong and Archana was later super wrong for rooting for this sacha pyaar marraige . It is absolutely sanskaarless , she should have refused Arjun for both her daughters .

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HillyloveKalapiFireLordPhoenixanu rulz.Senorita.Dabulls23

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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 9:08am | IP Logged

Thanks Kalapi and Kools,Big smile the correct knowledge is surely Power.


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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 9:14am | IP Logged
Kalapi & Kools I agree with you both on Engagement by giving word takes the highest honor..
 
No need for big engagement cards, halls, party etc.
 
Shakar puda, or in gujaratis "Gud dhana" and Rs. 1.25 is exchanged...If any engagement ceremony or exchange must happen will be done right b4 marriage to avoid cost-expenditure and more of a convinience...These days boy and girl may not be in the same city, state or country plus working makes it difficult..
 
So the argument or thought that only official engagment with patrika is the only valid or honorable is hogwash..Word of honor in the case of engagement is valid in society..
 
If engagement is going to break it will,  be it with word or with the so called official ceremony...No one can stop that..So that is a moot subject..
 
This days it is a trend where boy proposes to a girl in western society than marriage...Or in India word is exchanged between the two families by exchanging shakar puda - Gud dhana and they are engaged..


Edited by Dabulls23 - 12 April 2013 at 9:23am

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HillyloveKalapiFireLordPhoenix.Senorita.

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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 9:20am | IP Logged
Originally posted by koolsadhu1000

An engagement is generally done to announce to the society in 70 % of the cases but it is not mandatory at all if the two families r of average income group and decide mutually to do away with this function and directly go for the wedding as an engagement is a seperate function by itself that requires quite a lot of expenditure . Many families do away with it . An engagement is called the 'sakhar puda' in Maharashtra ...and many families think it is pointless to do so much kharcha on booking a hall  lunch  guests etc when all this is even done in the wedding itself . A sakharpuda is hosted by the girl's father and it is frankly a big drain on the girl's father's pocket so many a time the boy's party understands .

What we give importance , as u said , is the word . The word given or the commitment given . It is regarded as extremely shameful or embarassing when this word is broken . DK  in real life in our society would have slapped Arjun for his 'sacha pyaar ' excuse .

Both Arjun Purvi were wrong and Archana was later super wrong for rooting for this sacha pyaar marraige . It is absolutely sanskaarless , she should have refused Arjun for both her daughters .

Kool, that is what I thought too. Even my aashirbad was done just before the wedding and mine was an arranged marriage...Good thing Big smile for my then student hubby was coming from the West to get married to me...I guess, my parents didn't want to take any chances Wink

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HillyloveFireLordPhoenixkoolsadhu1000.Senorita.Dabulls23

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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 9:26am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Kalapi

Originally posted by soapwatcher1

Originally posted by hillydee


Just to be technically correct, if you fall in love with a man and find out that he is engaged, and your personal value system does not prod you to leave him alone at all costs, instead you wait patiently for him to slaughter his fiancee, yes the accurate terminology is that you are a man stealer, boyfriend stealer, fiancee stealer, whatever word best suits. 

The fact still remains you are a stealer. Nice girls from nice homes don't do such things.  Also, their Mothers would not encourage such a marriage. 


Ah, you see I was careful, LOLI did not say man stealer, boyfriend stealer, or fiance stealer, I said "husband stealer, gold-digger, mother stealer and baby stealer" and Purvi is none of these.  Wink

Your definition makes Ovi a stealer too, she stole Arjun right back.  At least Arjun was not engaged to Ovi when Purvi and him fell in love with each other and Purvi knew Arjun did not want Ovi. Purvi did stay away from Arjun after the engagement, he declared his love for her to Manav in front of the D clan, broke off his rishta and relentlessly pursued her in the chawl.  

But Ovi has no such excuse, she knew Arjun was engaged to Purvi, she knew he loved Purvi and yet went right ahead to steal him.  

Good girls don't do that either, mothers don't encourage or approve of putting valued relationships at stake, bartering your dad's happiness (I will refrain from saying mother's happiness in deference to those who have said Archana did not raise Ovi so there was no love lost between them) because you are blinded by your own selfish need to acquire your sister's soon to be husband. 

Janhvi, I don't agree with you LOL that since there were no 'formal' engagement that they wasn't any validity of the promise made. I do not know about Marathi culture here (Kool, is an engagement always always done way before the wedding???), but where I come from these days the engagement itself happens just before the marriage ceremony. This is of course done to avoid additional costs and/or time etc. But, once the 'Paka katha' (promise is made) it is held in the highest esteem and honor. And if any parties fail to uphold it, it is really seen in a very very bad light. Many ppl actually have the "paka katha' given in the region I come from and then marriage happening in a few months, either because the groom is out of town/can't get vacation or simply cause wedding cost money/time  and ppl wants a grace period to get all their acts together'So, a katha once given is most often honored and if one fails to honor that, it isn't taken kindly. So, in essence, both between the Deshmukhs and Kiroskars ' a "paka katha" was given, a promised was made and accepted. It was expected both parties will honor that 'word' given. Alas, both DK and Arjun failed here miserably, and the way they went about breaking their words was no way honorable'.

As for Ovi's outpouring of heart grief, I didn't see anything amiss in the last two episodes'.there isn't a protocol to follow while grieving, and the outpouring can come out anyway'.let see how the CVs plan to proceed, but if she screams, cries accuses'well, who wouldn't in her situation'it has nothing to do with the notion of "changed OVi " should behave like this 'er'like doing a aarti of Purvi and Arjun, maybe'


Kalapi, if you noted I said traditionally that is what constitutes an engagement, the exchanging of patrikas.  Marathi culture is similar to Kannada culture and I have cousins & aunts married into marathi households.  I would not consider the Canada agreement for lack of a better word, an engagement.  The engagement in Mumbai in front of family and friends and the exchanging of rings would constitute an engagement to me in modern day terms even if it lacked the "religious" (Indian sanskari is the word hillydee used) aspect so to speak. 

As I wrote to Kools, a word is a word to me and that is why I still hold Arjun responsible for not telling Ovi about Purvi and for even going forward with the engagement.  

About Ovi grieving, you continue to construe it in a manner in which I did not mean at allWink, I have reiterated several times now that I do not fault her way of grieving or her grieving and if the CVs had the sensitivity to develop that aspect skillfully I would welcome it, if they just let her regress into what she was before this fiasco, it would be a pity. And before you ask me what she was before this fiasco, I will expand, she was selfish, immature and couldn't see beyond her own nose, she had recently changed (in my perception) to a more mature, happy girl.  Her grieving, screaming, ranting, raving is all to be understood and excused but if she reverts to being a selfish, self-centered person, that would be a misfortune to herself.  And, one can grieve without being selfish or vindictive even if one screams, rants and raves or becomes withdrawn and depressed, the two need not go hand in hand .  Maybe natural to have feelings of revenge in such an instance when you feel you have been cheated doubly, you lost your child, was not told about it and are saddled with the baby of the one you hate most, but in the normal world, if such feelings were translated into actions, they would not be readily excused even if the motives behind them were understandable.  As I have explained as best I can in what I mean, I will not defend myself any further if you persist in believing I was slighting Ovi's manner of grieving, not at all.  I am very much like Ovi in that when I am upset, I rant and rave so I while I greatly admire people who can hold it all in especially in times of stress, I will not point grubby fingers at someone who is voluble in their grief or anger.  
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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 9:34am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Dabulls23

Kalapi & Kools I agree with you both on Engagement by giving word takes the highest honor..
 
No need for big engagement cards, halls, party etc.
 
Shakar puda, or in gujaratis "Gud dhana" and Rs. 1.25 is exchanged...If any engagement ceremony or exchange must happen will be done right b4 marriage to avoid cost-expenditure and more of a convinience...These days boy and girl may not be in the same city, state or country plus working makes it difficult..
 
So the argument or thought that only official engagment with patrika is the only valid or honorable is hogwash..Word of honor in the case of engagement is valid in society..
 
If engagement is going to break it will,  be it with word or with the so called official ceremony...No one can stop that..So that is a moot subject..
 
This days it is a trend where boy proposes to a girl in western society than marriage...Or in India word is exchanged between the two families by exchanging shakar puda - Gud dhana and they are engaged..

Dear Varsha, I would dare not disagree with you LOL Hug I agree, morally and ethically, yes, a word given is a word to be honored though the Canada agreement would not be an "Indian sanskari" engagement.   With the exchange of patrikas, sweets are exchanged and the families are one, forever more.  Yes, we all take short cuts these days with the thread ceremony even, it is done the day of the marriage whereas before it was done when the boy turned 7, 9 or 11.  But since hilly dee asked me about the sanskari definition, I was giving her the traditional explanation of what an engagement actually entailed.  
And you are right, sadly people break marriages, engagements, and even parental relationships these days with more ease then ever conceived before, most times completely justifiable, sometimes on the merest whim. 


Edited by soapwatcher1 - 12 April 2013 at 9:34am

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