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Madhubala - Ek Ishq Ek Junoon
Madhubala - Ek Ishq Ek Junoon

RK Vs Sultan - Character Sketch Analysis..!!! (Page 9)

sweetdear Goldie
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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 8:33am | IP Logged
Nice postThumbs Up Dil Heart!!

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fia21 IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 9:30am | IP Logged
Originally posted by dilnasheen

Originally posted by fia21

With all due respect to your point of view, I beg to differ.  One thing that I don't understand is that why every time when people try to point out the flaws in RK's character or the current track surrounding him, people assume that it must be a Sultan fan or they are "defending" Sultan in some way. I like both characters in their own way, though RK's has recently started to creep me out. In the beginning of the show, I really liked him, all those witty one-liners and stuff. But now when I look back to it, it feels like that was all RK had to himself. Even now if you take away those awesome dialogues from him and just look at the character itself, there isn't anything different or unique or entertaining about him.

You find Sultan's track boring, that is your opinion and is completely understandable. But I find his track and character to be way more interesting than RK's. I am not going to get into the whole Gangster debate because it would be pointless. For me, RK isn't a unique or well developed character. Think about it yourself, from episode 1 till date, what exactly could be passed as character development when it comes to RK? The only development he showed or started to show was during the fake love/wedding track. So for me, that development doesn't stay valid anymore as RK himself said it was all a pretense.

Coming to RK versus Sultan. Well I don't think there is any "versus" between them. Both characters are different from each other but with some similarities too. About RK's character, I have mentioned this in another post too and would like to share it here aswell.  Authors/Producers/Directors, all these people are very well aware of the fact that the audiences these days are obsessed with "grey characters" , being mostly females and teenagers. Hence, the majority of the male characters in books, movies and TV shows consist of male protagonists to be grey shaded. It's like a norm. But not all "bad boys" are grey. I really wish people would stop using the word grey just so they could sell their story. They are clever enough to know that "grey" and "layered"  are the words that sell here but only those sensible enough to understand would know the difference between the two. This show now consists of two characters which are grey. But even grey is categorized in two parts.

1. Flawed
2. Layered

I have come across so many people saying that RK is a layered character. RK's character is not layered. The proper term for him is flawed. He is a flawed character. There is a difference between layered and flawed. I really feel like issuing dictionaries on this forum. Even to the writer who apparently has tagged RK as a layered character just so people would love him more than they already do. If you give it a thought, he doesn't exactly have any proper layers or depth to him. So far all we have seen is his egoistic side. I am not going to mention the soft side here because even if there was any, it turned out to be fake. That part of RK is yet to be shown, that is if there is any. Layered would be the word I would use for Sultan's character. He's a ruthless gangster but also a strict yet caring Father. He has a dark side and a human side. He has his morals and is principled and sometimes he is impulsive. Now we are seeing a side of him which might be capable of love. Anyway these are what layers are called as far as I think. Even Madhubala to some extent is layered. She can be a friendly cat at one point and a vicious tigress at the very next moment .
One word that can describe both RK and Sultan's characters is complex. They are both complex and unpredictable in their own ways.

One fine day- Sultan emerges from water like a fearless warrior, destroying the obstacles in his way..
Next week - We find him HIDING from one of his underlings in a CHAWL...!!!
One fine day- He's a BAD father, who made his OWN son a human bait..!!
Next week- He's a GREAT father, who's playing color color with his son..!!
A day ago- He's involved in a shoot-out in the chawl, in plain view of everyone..!!
A day later - He's seen strolling into the chawl with a picnic basket, as if he's the most respected member of community...!!
A day ago- He's reminiscing about his dead(??) wife fondly and with emotions...!!
A day later - He's all blushing and day-dreaming over someone else's wife..!!(before y'all erupt, RK did tell him Mb was his wife on holi day and NO-ONE contradicted, neither MB nor Sultan..!!)
A day ago- There was danger to his and his family's life, so he fled from his house..!!
A day later - He's back in his own house, like nothing of that sort EVER happened, and the enemy, hence the danger, isn't over yet...!!
A day ago - He said an emotional "Alvida"...!!
A day later - There..He's back AGAIN...!!!
and Finally,
3 weeks ago - An emotionless gangsta..!!
Now -A blushing lover boy(mature and sensible of course..Unlike RK..)..!!

All these points that you mentioned, well you sort of just proved my point above Embarrassed . These are all layers of the character called Sultan. Something which I never found in the character RK. The way I see it, I have not found anything unique, except those amazing dialogues, in his character. About Sultan blushing, I don't think he was. I watched the episode twice to see why people think he was blushing. He was just reminiscing his moments with Madhu and there were absolutely no signs of blushing on his face.

RK - Had a sad past (a well explained one), which he decided to overcome by killing the "Rishabh" in him and becoming "RK", he took up ACTING..!!
Sultan - Had a past (not well explained , but I have hopes), which he decided to overcome by killing people and becoming "Mumbai ka Sultan", he took up ARMS..!!

Again I beg to differ here with the part in bold. I don't remember the exact date, but a few episodes back, we did get to see an explanation of Sultan's past when he comes to take Aryan and talks to Padmini about it. Sultan may be a Gangster, but he is way better a human being than RK ever was or will be. Take the Superstar out of RK and Gangster out of Sultan and judge them JUST as people without blindly supporting either of them, you'd know the difference yourself. I am not justifying Sultan. He is a Gangster so he is obviously wrong, but the point is the reason behind his decision. They both chose their own lifestyles but RK chose his out of pure ego and his sadistic pleasures, whereas Sultan's past actually has some depth to it and is reason enough to be what he is today. I suggest you watch that episode, you'll get to peek in Sultan's past which is way more complicated than RK's.

I don't mind seeing RishBala together. It's they way that it is happening is what is bothering me. I don't want to see him saying "I want Madhu back" . I want to see him saying "I don't deserve Madhu" . Only then will RK be truly redeemed for me. Because only then he'd realize how much she loved him and what exactly he lost by betraying her like that.Vivian is doing a great job essaying this role but people really need to learn to differentiate between an actor and a character. The current track is so utterly messed up. Instead of showing Nach Baliye Season 6 in making between RK and Madhubala, the CVs should seriously try to focus on showing a PROPER redemption track of RK. Showing Madhu just melting on his touch in no way proves their love. Until then, I am up for some SulBala too. If I get bored of them too, I'll switch to some other show.

If I sounded harsh I am really sorry about that. It wasn't my intention. It's just that I am tired of all the fights on this forum over a MERE show Confused . Anyway once again my apologies if I offended you or anyone in any way. I was just stating my opinion!

Thank you for commenting!!I just love a healthy discussion...Embarrassed

Now..Let me take up the fact that you called RK flawed yet Sultan layered...WinkOk..I myself said in my post that RK is a man with HUGE flaws...But Sultan...???can his layers be only through the fact that he's a strict father and gangster...??ShockedI could make a LONG list of RK's relatives here...His relationship with his mom..(Wasn't fake), his relationship with his dad(again wasn't fake), his relationship with his so-called step family(complex, yet NOT fake)...The only faking he ever did was in his relationship with MB(but even that I have solid doubts, based on the scenes he chose to remind her yesterday)...EmbarrassedBut even those like his egoism, passionate/obsessive nature,his don't-care-a-damn attitude HAVE always been explained..and I must say MB in the show knows it also...Smile

He's had a bad past too..But did he get anti-social or lawless because of it...??NOOO...!!Doesn't that show the integrity in a person...??RK's character and it's professional and personal persona has been very well developed in the show...And I for one definitely understand..!!And it wasn't over tea it was done either...It was done over a period of time..(take after second revenge itself)!!!Smile

And about taking out the superstar and gangster part from both these characters...Smile Is this what we should be doing for every criminal...??If we take the criminal tag from every criminal, I'm sure we'll be getting just another man there too..!!
Does that mean what they HAVE become doesn't reflect their personalities...???I hope you aren't saying that...!!!ShockedOuchYou can never separate a man's BIGGEST identity from himself and THEN analyse them right...??It's an integral and important part in knowing what kind of a person you are.

About Sultan's past, I remember the two lines he told Padmini too...SmileWant more than that to explain WHY he became a don though...!!And I did say NOT WELL EXPLAINED and not UNEXPLAINED...!EmbarrassedDoesn't change the fact he did in fact took up arms whatever it was.

Points I mentioned about in the post, happened so fast..I was like "you gotta be kidding me!!!"...nothing and NO-ONE ever changes that fast!!Not if it's to be believed!!And they prove how unstable a character he is in my opinion.And not how complex he is..To be a complex character he needs to be consistent with it and not keep changing colors..!!My POV..No imposition..Smile

@ bold...I really want to know more about this...!!!Being an impulsive mob boss...??Hmmm...an interesting term..WinkEmbarrassedI would have thought THAT took a lot of cunning and calculation, manipulation, murder and what not...!!Embarrassed

About your last paragraph though, I AGREE completely , except for the sulbala part of course...WinkLOL!!!BRAVO for describing it so well...!!Clap

P.S - I can't believe I made a post on Sultan and YET AGAIN ended up analysing RK..LOL..LOLMy fav hobby now...LOL


Same here. Too bad we don't get to have many on this forum LOL

I didn't go into the details of Sultan being a layered character as I was in a rush, and frankly, I hate typing too much. I was mostly focusing on RK's current character in my comment. And I think you might have taken it in a wrong way, I never mentioned anything about RK's relationship with other people or called it fake. I only talked about his relationship with Madhubala, or the way it was shown. I would blame the CVs for not being clear with the current track. I was one of those people who really liked the "Hubby" RK. But then BAM, the next thing I know, he's claiming all of that to be fake. I think this was a very abrupt move on the CVs part to have suddenly changed the entire track altogether because by doing so, they indirectly showed that all the good stuff that he did, like saving Madhu from her evil Father and then getting Padmini and Malik married, all of that was all of a sudden pointless. And now again they are showing RK to be that guy who we thought fell in love with Madhu. I mean, it's just confusing and weird. One moment he's insulting her, the next we see he wants her back. It's like the CVs are just throwing random scenes at the audience without working on an actual story!

Talking about being anti-social and lawless. I would use the exact same words for RK too. Reason being, have we ever come across a single friend of RK's? Or any person, besides his fans, who like him for who he is? (in the show) . That covers up anti-social. Now coming to lawless, RK is pretty lawless too. Drunk driving is against the law and considered a crime, so is hit and run (which happened with Mukund) , blackmailing (what he did to get Madhu to marry him) , getting someone beaten to death (with Malik) , bribing the police (there was a reason that Police Officer wasn't ready to let Madhu file a case against RK during Mukund's accident track) . All these are actually crimes and against the law. Just because RK didn't get caught for them doesn't mean he never committed them. Sultan is a Gangster so that in itself speaks about his crimes. But even Superstars are known to be involved in criminal activities.

Again you took me wrong. Read my comment again. I was analyzing their personalities. And that was merely a way of doing it. Like for example, when a girl is getting married, her parents don't chose a guy on merely his profession, but they look into what kind of a person he is at heart. Okay that was probably a terrible example but I am hoping you understood my point LOL

As far as I think, Sultan isn't really changing. I mean he probably loved his wife dearly and after she died or whatever happened to her, he shut that part of his heart down. That does not mean it doesn't exist. It's just that maybe because of Madhu, it's starting to show faster than we had expected.

Thanks. Lol yeah that is completely understandable LOL . You know this is the reason I mainly watch American shows. They take risks and experiment with the story and couples. It's nice to see two characters you could never imagine to be together. And mostly all the couples I have liked so far are never the original pairing which is why I probably want to see a fresh story in the form of SulBala EmbarrassedLOL . We all know it's going to be RishBala in the end, but I wouldn't mind if Madhu wants to stay alone too. Lol.

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 10:04am | IP Logged
Originally posted by fia21



Same here. Too bad we don't get to have many on this forum LOL

I didn't go into the details of Sultan being a layered character as I was in a rush, and frankly, I hate typing too much. I was mostly focusing on RK's current character in my comment. And I think you might have taken it in a wrong way, I never mentioned anything about RK's relationship with other people or called it fake. I only talked about his relationship with Madhubala, or the way it was shown. I would blame the CVs for not being clear with the current track. I was one of those people who really liked the "Hubby" RK. But then BAM, the next thing I know, he's claiming all of that to be fake. I think this was a very abrupt move on the CVs part to have suddenly changed the entire track altogether because by doing so, they indirectly showed that all the good stuff that he did, like saving Madhu from her evil Father and then getting Padmini and Malik married, all of that was all of a sudden pointless. And now again they are showing RK to be that guy who we thought fell in love with Madhu. I mean, it's just confusing and weird. One moment he's insulting her, the next we see he wants her back. It's like the CVs are just throwing random scenes at the audience without working on an actual story!

Talking about being anti-social and lawless. I would use the exact same words for RK too. Reason being, have we ever come across a single friend of RK's? Or any person, besides his fans, who like him for who he is? (in the show) . That covers up anti-social. Now coming to lawless, RK is pretty lawless too. Drunk driving is against the law and considered a crime, so is hit and run (which happened with Mukund) , blackmailing (what he did to get Madhu to marry him) , getting someone beaten to death (with Malik) , bribing the police (there was a reason that Police Officer wasn't ready to let Madhu file a case against RK during Mukund's accident track) . All these are actually crimes and against the law. Just because RK didn't get caught for them doesn't mean he never committed them. Sultan is a Gangster so that in itself speaks about his crimes. But even Superstars are known to be involved in criminal activities.

Again you took me wrong. Read my comment again. I was analyzing their personalities. And that was merely a way of doing it. Like for example, when a girl is getting married, her parents don't chose a guy on merely his profession, but they look into what kind of a person he is at heart. Okay that was probably a terrible example but I am hoping you understood my point LOL

As far as I think, Sultan isn't really changing. I mean he probably loved his wife dearly and after she died or whatever happened to her, he shut that part of his heart down. That does not mean it doesn't exist. It's just that maybe because of Madhu, it's starting to show faster than we had expected.

Thanks. Lol yeah that is completely understandable LOL . You know this is the reason I mainly watch American shows. They take risks and experiment with the story and couples. It's nice to see two characters you could never imagine to be together. And mostly all the couples I have liked so far are never the original pairing which is why I probably want to see a fresh story in the form of SulBala EmbarrassedLOL . We all know it's going to be RishBala in the end, but I wouldn't mind if Madhu wants to stay alone too. Lol.

I'm one hundred percent with you on most points, especially the first paragraph..!!Did the CV's break our heart or what...??!CryCryI too am wondering what happened to all those good deeds he did during that time.Coz if he hadn't been faking love,it stands true that both mb's parents would be in prison for attempted murder and murder!!SmileNot really sure about padmini but shammo for sure would have been rotting in jail..LOL

And about RK's lawlessness, I'm sure Superstar or not, he'd NEVER be spared for a murder.,...And his extent of crimes never reached that far..!!He had a drunk driving accident and was jailed for it until he could get bail..!!That's where the whole "revenge cycle" originated right..??Up until then he was only amused by the sherni..Then he wanted to bite.Blackmailing Madhu only worked because he promised to save her father, whom Bittuji got beaten and NOT RK, and he did save him..!!As far as I remember if Mukku's mom wasn't so corruptive I'm sure his case would have run longer.!SmileWhile RK's acts were bailable, the truth remains that once Sultan get's caught his sentence is going to be really harsh, as his crime is non-bailable!I truly worry about his education..Confused

Yup!!LOLDefinitely a terrible example..LOL.But that was also the point I was making btw..Wink Sultan's character had the potential to be great, but CV's hastened through it so fast that it became a mockery .Which wouldn't have been the case if they had taken some time to think and then do some major changes.I can't tell you how eagerly I looked forward to his entry!!I just feel cheated.The whole gangster business, wish that was shown with little research too.I can't just take how a different this don is from what I have envisaged or watched.Just too absurd.CV's needed to stick to what they wanted to show, rather than moving the story ahead on the basis of tweets and TRP's.!!Embarrassed

I love american shows too but I'm a li'l more conventional type.I just love the pair I started watching the show for...LOLLOLIf Madhu wanted to stay alone I would have cheered for her..It would have been a nice change...Big smileBut I hope you understand why I can't like her with anyone else..WinkLOLI know it's Rishbala in the end but I don't want another ekta type multiple love and  marriage track in the show either.That would just spoil the essence of the show.Embarrassed

It was really nice knowing you.I hope we can have more engrossing debates.!!Smile

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Simple-Girlfia21

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 10:05am | IP Logged
Originally posted by sweetdear

Nice postThumbs Up Dil Heart!!

thanks sweety!!Smile
fia21 IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 12:21pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by dilnasheen

Originally posted by fia21



Same here. Too bad we don't get to have many on this forum LOL

I didn't go into the details of Sultan being a layered character as I was in a rush, and frankly, I hate typing too much. I was mostly focusing on RK's current character in my comment. And I think you might have taken it in a wrong way, I never mentioned anything about RK's relationship with other people or called it fake. I only talked about his relationship with Madhubala, or the way it was shown. I would blame the CVs for not being clear with the current track. I was one of those people who really liked the "Hubby" RK. But then BAM, the next thing I know, he's claiming all of that to be fake. I think this was a very abrupt move on the CVs part to have suddenly changed the entire track altogether because by doing so, they indirectly showed that all the good stuff that he did, like saving Madhu from her evil Father and then getting Padmini and Malik married, all of that was all of a sudden pointless. And now again they are showing RK to be that guy who we thought fell in love with Madhu. I mean, it's just confusing and weird. One moment he's insulting her, the next we see he wants her back. It's like the CVs are just throwing random scenes at the audience without working on an actual story!

Talking about being anti-social and lawless. I would use the exact same words for RK too. Reason being, have we ever come across a single friend of RK's? Or any person, besides his fans, who like him for who he is? (in the show) . That covers up anti-social. Now coming to lawless, RK is pretty lawless too. Drunk driving is against the law and considered a crime, so is hit and run (which happened with Mukund) , blackmailing (what he did to get Madhu to marry him) , getting someone beaten to death (with Malik) , bribing the police (there was a reason that Police Officer wasn't ready to let Madhu file a case against RK during Mukund's accident track) . All these are actually crimes and against the law. Just because RK didn't get caught for them doesn't mean he never committed them. Sultan is a Gangster so that in itself speaks about his crimes. But even Superstars are known to be involved in criminal activities.

Again you took me wrong. Read my comment again. I was analyzing their personalities. And that was merely a way of doing it. Like for example, when a girl is getting married, her parents don't chose a guy on merely his profession, but they look into what kind of a person he is at heart. Okay that was probably a terrible example but I am hoping you understood my point LOL

As far as I think, Sultan isn't really changing. I mean he probably loved his wife dearly and after she died or whatever happened to her, he shut that part of his heart down. That does not mean it doesn't exist. It's just that maybe because of Madhu, it's starting to show faster than we had expected.

Thanks. Lol yeah that is completely understandable LOL . You know this is the reason I mainly watch American shows. They take risks and experiment with the story and couples. It's nice to see two characters you could never imagine to be together. And mostly all the couples I have liked so far are never the original pairing which is why I probably want to see a fresh story in the form of SulBala EmbarrassedLOL . We all know it's going to be RishBala in the end, but I wouldn't mind if Madhu wants to stay alone too. Lol.

I'm one hundred percent with you on most points, especially the first paragraph..!!Did the CV's break our heart or what...??!CryCryI too am wondering what happened to all those good deeds he did during that time.Coz if he hadn't been faking love,it stands true that both mb's parents would be in prison for attempted murder and murder!!SmileNot really sure about padmini but shammo for sure would have been rotting in jail..LOL

And about RK's lawlessness, I'm sure Superstar or not, he'd NEVER be spared for a murder.,...And his extent of crimes never reached that far..!!He had a drunk driving accident and was jailed for it until he could get bail..!!That's where the whole "revenge cycle" originated right..??Up until then he was only amused by the sherni..Then he wanted to bite.Blackmailing Madhu only worked because he promised to save her father, whom Bittuji got beaten and NOT RK, and he did save him..!!As far as I remember if Mukku's mom wasn't so corruptive I'm sure his case would have run longer.!SmileWhile RK's acts were bailable, the truth remains that once Sultan get's caught his sentence is going to be really harsh, as his crime is non-bailable!I truly worry about his education..Confused

Yup!!LOLDefinitely a terrible example..LOL.But that was also the point I was making btw..Wink Sultan's character had the potential to be great, but CV's hastened through it so fast that it became a mockery .Which wouldn't have been the case if they had taken some time to think and then do some major changes.I can't tell you how eagerly I looked forward to his entry!!I just feel cheated.The whole gangster business, wish that was shown with little research too.I can't just take how a different this don is from what I have envisaged or watched.Just too absurd.CV's needed to stick to what they wanted to show, rather than moving the story ahead on the basis of tweets and TRP's.!!Embarrassed

I love american shows too but I'm a li'l more conventional type.I just love the pair I started watching the show for...LOLLOLIf Madhu wanted to stay alone I would have cheered for her..It would have been a nice change...Big smileBut I hope you understand why I can't like her with anyone else..WinkLOLI know it's Rishbala in the end but I don't want another ekta type multiple love and  marriage track in the show either.That would just spoil the essence of the show.Embarrassed

It was really nice knowing you.I hope we can have more engrossing debates.!!Smile


Seems like the CVs themselves are confused as to what they actually want to show. They better pull up their socks soon or they'd lose a lot of loyal viewers. There isn't a lack of good shows out there. How long will people want to watch the same thing happening over and over again? Hahaha I still get shocked like I was the first time when I found out it was none other than Malik who had shot RK. Taking revenge for what he did to Madhu was understandable, but doesn't mean he had to stoop to the level RK did.

Don't know about TV shows, but there are a lot of Superstars out there who have been left unscathed even after committing murders. Sigh what has this world come to. Anyway coming back to the show, you said blackmailing Madhu only worked because he promised to save her Father, well that is exactly what blackmailing is. Oh do not even get me started on Mukund's Mom. She was plain annoying and a nutcase! Yes you're right. Sultan being a Gangster probably has no redemption. He can quit being one at some point, but the kind of job that this is, it'll come right back to bite him someday. The thing is, there are several Bollywood movies that have portrayed the love stories of Gangsters with ordinary girls and they turned out to be epic and huge hits. So the whole SulBala track in that case would be really interesting to watch as they'd had much more problems and hardships to deal with than just a fake wedding drama Embarrassed . Because at this point, RishBala getting back together would be like the end of Madhubala. There would be nothing else left to cover in their relationship. And I don't want to see a good show ending up as just another kitchen politics with Deepali dancing on Madhu and RK's last nerve every now and then. It would be better if they just give the love story a good ending.

Agreed. Sultan's character indeed had a lot of potential. I just wish the CVs hadn't rushed with the whole change-in-heart because of Madhubala track. It just seems so abrupt Confused . They should have explored Sultan's character a bit more and then showed Madhu affecting him.

Eww Ekta Kapoor's multiple marriage tracks were THE worst Dead . But I guess it worked for her. Lol. I would like to see Avinesh and Drashti in another show together. Would be cool. They are both amazing actors and actually look good together when sharing the screen. Lol yes I can understand WinkLOL

Ditto. Looking forward to have more discussions with you Smile . Btw, what should I call you?

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 2:41pm | IP Logged
Clap

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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 5:22am | IP Logged
and the more recent one- sultan asked madhu to kill bhujang and r.k asked madhu to kill himself LOL

















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Posted: 12 April 2013 at 5:56am | IP Logged
@fia21 Call me "Dil".

I know, I hate ekta style of relationship equation so much I dread when a new promo of her show starts.My mind starts thinking at once "How convoluted is this story going to get..??"LOL.

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