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Madhubala - Ek Ishq Ek Junoon
Madhubala - Ek Ishq Ek Junoon

RK-Systematically Victimizing Madhu While... (Page 15)

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 4:02pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Sanjari7

Originally posted by mytinypaintings

Originally posted by Sanjari7

Dis is only a serial..n dis new chracter of rk is so hatke.. never v have seen a lead hero wid a grey  shade...so its very new n exciting..n people dont learn sumthing like dis frm serials..dey shud b mature enuf to differentiate btwn real n reel life..!! Its not balika vadhu yaar ki kaun sahi n kaun glt..its a larger than life show in itself..!! agar log serials se seekhte hi hai toh unhe madhu ki social service seekhni chahye..asli mei koi ladka aisa kare kisi k saath toh i wnt even luk at him..!! but its only a serial n its the cvs who decide the fate of a character..!! so just chill...!!
 
Unfortunately it is never just a serial...I agree with your logic why we like RK but serials do have an impact ..it is proven time and again ...in a world where we are trying to find out the impact of video games on people serials and movies to theek hi hain they do impact many...all are not as mature and emotionally sound as many of us are...we must not forget that atleast 70 percent of suburban India is Inspired by these serials...who brought valentines day, rose day, to India?? If you will answer this question honestly you will agree with the fact that bollywood impacts the younger genration phenomenally..Smile
 ya dats true... but u tell which show dese days except sum offers sumthing wid moral values n sumthing dat shud b taken wid respect in the society..!! in ekta kapoor serials the same girl is married thrice..while in sum other like uttaran the same poor girl iccha has been suffering so much ever since the serial strted...nin  how many they show husbnds ditching their wives n many other stupid things happn in serials...!! i totally agree wid u.. but the fact is dat nt only mb but almost all the serials dese days r showing total crap...cvs believe dat v will happily c whtever dey show..!! ya i also dnt like rk dese days for wht he has done..but it is the cvs who hav  butchered their own creation so much..!! they must hav shown dere struggle together or anything like dat but they r screwing everything so much..!!
@ bold This is sooo sooo sooo sooo true, I guess soaps will take a decade or so to develop in India...

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 5:53pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by pnars

Originally posted by Oh_No_Soaps

Originally posted by pnars

To the TM and others on this thread,

You are entitled to your opinion. You don't like RK or the way he treats Madhu. Fine. You are suggesting ways for his redemption including his death, Madhu moving on etc. Fine again. That is your opinion which you are more than entitled to. Discuss away all you want. If the serial outrages you, change the channel.

What I take bigger issue with is that you are denigrating viewers who like the track - viewers have been called "brainwashed", "immature", "naive" and worse on this thread. The TM has attributed the "condition" of Indian women and girls to them watching "such" serials. How can you put yourself on a pedestal and label other viewers? You are dictating what others can or cannot watch, and just because you don't like what they like, you are calling them names. 

This is censorship. This is also stereotyping of the worst kind. Reflect on what you are doing.


I for one have not called anyone names or denigrated anyone. I have called those who want Madhu to end up with RK naive. That is not denigration. That is care and concern for you and your ilk. Yes, I know none of you asked for it but it is still there. Here is the definition of naive:

Naive
Adjective
1. A person or action showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement.
2. Natural and unaffected; innocent


Now where is the insult or denigration? Shocked We are ALL naive at some point in our lives. In fact it is a compliment.
Also, where is the dictating? At no point have I said, don't watch. In fact it is your ilk who keep saying ...don't like then don't watch!!

Let me repeat. I just want the ending to ensure that there are not more people like you who go away thinking that abuse can change to love.


Dear TM,

I don't like being called naive, no matter what the dictionary says. It is not a compliment in my book.

Don't dictate the ending of a story, unless you are a CV employed by a production house. Don't think I "go away thinking that abuse can change to love". Your definition of abuse and love and mine are different. Don't talk about "my ilk" or "people like me". You know nothing about me. I don't want or need your care or concern. Don't  assume things on my behalf, or on anyone else's. Don't do netagiri and give me moral science lessons. Don't spoil my entertainment options in the name of your psuedo-psychology or feminist drivel. Do not police my TV.

Thank you.


Dear pnars,
Naivety and compliment are not mutually exclusive. Your comment again shows you are naive. If you don't take it as a compliment then fine. Naive because:

1)Expressing a viewpoint is not the same as dictating. Go look up the word dictate.In fact even a CV does not have completely free hand in how a story develops and ends. Many are involved. Again naive.

2)My definition of love and abuse are the standard. Just because yours are different does not mean I, or anyone else should or is going start using something else. Just because you might want to call an apple a pear, does not mean I or anyone else will  do the same, just so you do not feel we are doing netagiri.

3) Your responding to my post give me every right to talk about your reply's content. ( just as you have mine!)

4)ALL the assumptions have been on your part. Netagiri, policing, thinking that I don't want ppl to watch this show. Feeling your entertainment is being dictated


5)My care and concern is withdrawn for the moment as far as you are concerned.You need a dictionary first and the basic understanding that my post was not written personally and exclusively for YOU. My concern is and was expressed for all those watching.

6) There is no such thing as moral science. There is however, an area of expertise called the Morality of Science, however, it has nothing to do with this topic.

7) Your entertainment is safe. Ask yourself why do you feel it is threatened? The serial is still being aired. Further at no point have I asked you or anyone else not to watch it.

8) When I go into work tomorrow, I will check if after all these years, the word Psychology has changed to pseudo-psychology on my certificate. After all you never know when an apple might become a pear, if its called a pear often enough.

9) Feminism
: a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.
Drivel: Noun: Silly nonsense
You believe anything that defines, establishes and defends equal rights for women is silly nonsense. Ok. Free world. Lucky you!! Wonder how you managed to get that "free world"? It just happened by itself. Ummm..bit like eg India's independence...one fine morning alll by itself it just happened. People did not express opinions, or back up what they felt was right with some facts and effort. You and I must be very special to have have this free world. Its not really for all the other girls and women who don't have it, esp the young impressionable ones. Hell it might spoil our entertainment!

10) When its YOUR tv watched just by your single self, I will not raise my concerns about the effect what it shows has on its viewers. Till then, take your own advice, you don't like what I am saying, don't read it.

Oh and finally, I know a fair bit about you. As now you know about me.

Thank you to you too.



Edited by Oh_No_Soaps - 10 April 2013 at 5:58pm

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ha35_adArshiforever8SATHYA88mozart66Siri22

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 6:18pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Beckett

Change comes from within you cannot change a person until he/she is himself willing to do so. But it is a common fantasy to see an emotionally damaged hero healing or finding happiness by the pure love and devotion of the heroine, we all like to see how grey characters try to fight away the attraction and ultimately succumb to it!
According to me getting influenced by fictious characters and like you mentioned girls tolerating abuse hoping for the guy to change totally depends upon the sensibility of the viewer, viewers should be mature enough to differentiate between real and reel life, in TV industry they need to show an intense love story which cannot proceed if RK is not given a chance to redeem himself!

One of the most appreciated piece of literature had Heathcliff as the lead who was vindictive , dark extremely passionate and obsessive somebody you wouldn't want to cross path with but that character was loved and appreciated by people throughout the world. He made his life and Cathy's life a hell but people fell in love with the depth of the character, no one supports his ideas or his emotionally abusive ways but they loved him for his intensity. Same goes for Christian Grey who was severely emotionally damaged but got his happy ending!

There's a lot of young viewers and a lot of old viewers that honestly won't understand the difference between real life and reel life. Also, the illiterate viewers won't know how to differentiate it either. 

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 6:27pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Escape.My.Love.


No wonder Indian women and girls are treated the worst in the world!! You watch abuse like this EVERY evening on TV from childhood onwards and it ends with the guy saying "sorry, I love you" and its all ok and they live happily ever after???!!! THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. The countless number of girls and women, who think that her boyfriend/man/husband will change only if she loves him enough, or does what he wants etc etc, is SHOCKING

Oh and for all those who think it doesn't influence you, and you know the difference between your real life and what you enjoy watching??? If ALL of us were not being influenced, advertising which is a mulit-billion dollar industry 

My response in this color:
Btw , Women are not treated the worst in India. The amount of rape statistics is topped by America all over the world. The only difference being , the abusers get the punnishments and the extent of punishments they deserve and never leave such issues and cases pending in court like in India. 
There is another equally if not more significant difference. Abuse and rape is way more likely to be reported in the US than in India. UN estimates are that over 95% of rape is unreported in India due to the stigma associated with it. That is why the figures are larger for the US.  And the figures that are there for India don't  include marital rape.
And I am sorry but the comment you made on how women are treated and tolerate such men shows your ignorance. Abuse is very much present but the origins of abuse , and how some abusers are not bad people is seen to be royally ignored.You want to say just cause some men are thoroughly damaged and they can only give damage they do not deserve a chance of a normal family or a normal life?Some "abusers" or the harsh term used for them are not pathological or bad men! Rather too many bad things has happened to them. The sort that are unimaginable leads them to have distorted lives and unable to be in peace despite try to settle with their own families! It is like they fight with themselves everyday but the shit they have faced all the life gets the better of them and translates to physical abuse.
I am not diagreeing with you. Origins of abuse are varied. However, my post is pertaining to that which is carried out by psychopaths. Because RK is being portrayed as a psychopath.
But what makes you think that they have any pleasure or not regret in what they do. Psychopaths do not. If they show regret, its an act.
 They wish they were never like this.They fight with themselves every single day. Yes it is very difficult to live with such men , as fathers and husbands.But that does not mean they will be classified as brutal beaters or abusers. This classification is a very delicate issue.You just hear these things but you personally don't know their stories. Moreover much worse abuse has been shown within couples in Tellyworld who are still seen as "epic" , and have had much worse abuse than Rishbaala.Rishbaala is more of heart break. Not abuse. See Prem-Mukti and Angad-Kripa who I love but have much more toxicity in abuse in their stories than Rishbaala ever has.


Understanding WHY someone does something bad eg abuses, whether it is physical and/or emotional abuse, does not make WHAT they do okay or right. It also does not mean that the girl/woman should put up with it.
It does not mean that a) it is not abuse or b) it isn't classified as abuse. It is. When it is a father or a husband, then it is a very hard and difficult thing to accept, I totally get that but they are abusers, whether they regret it or not.
But to name something for what it is, is very powerful and admitting it for what it is, is the first step for the abuser and/or the abused to start on the long road to stopping it or getting away from it. However, hard as it is to accept, studies have shown over and over again...if a man is violent to a woman, is abusive...it is highly unlikely to stop. Whether the abuser is a psychopath or it orginates  for some other reason. Sorry...but that is the sad truth... backed up with hard data.

I have not seen these serials. However, just because in those the abuse is worse does not justify the abuse in this serial. Abuse if shown in serials needs to be named for what it is because irrespective of what the abuser has gone through..what they are doing is wrong. An apple is an apple whether it comes from a healthy tree or a sick tree. You don't say...oh don't call this an apple, it had a tough time growing in that other tree.

And you have pin pointed  my concern. The fact that abuse is shown day after day on tv without it being named or the girl fighting it or getting away from it. It influences the boys to do it and it influences the girls to not recognise it and/or get away from it.

Serials need to show girls getting away from it. Fighting it and winning
.

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 7:26pm | IP Logged
Oh_No_Soaps - I completely disagree  in some points. Do you even how know delicate it is to actually term someone and classify someone as a psychopath? Do we not sometimes hit people around us out of vent just like that? So are we abusers? Emotional abuse has variant forms and if we closely see then normal people like us do it as well , but that does not make us beaters or abusers. Ignorance and covert abuse\passive abuse  is seemed to be a big category of abuse within emotional abuse as well which Madhu herself is doing now. When they were together , if I am not wrong Madhu used to inflict violence back and according to Johnson's categories of violence , what Rishbala do is "mutual violence control" [ MVC]. The thing about power relations within Rishbaala through control and violence has been discussed in the discussion threads many times. As in who takes the particular control of the other of showing them the "right way" through dominating them inflicts in mutual violence. It is said to be the most rare form of violence found. Madhu subjects to violence against him too , but not to always defend herself but sometimes to gain the right hand in trying to show RK that who is the boss over here and who is "right" in what they want to do. Madhu's notion of right is seen to what people see as right ie morality and RK's notion of right is seen as dominance. But both to establish their rights fight for that power through mutual violence. Nobody seems to even understand the dilemma and delicacy surrounding the diagnosis of labeling someone as abusive , because many people have different cases and just cause one hits it is not always cause it is pathological or psychopathic. Broken family and abusive childhood and traumatic events make it hard for many men to live stable lives and they cannot control that forever aggression inside them that directs as physical lashing. And one cannot say that whatever the reason - they are abusers . Branding people with traumatic experiences to be labeled something this harsh just cause those dilemmas have never been taken cared of for years is the very reason why people still are so reluctant to go for counselling and psychoanalysis. They are so scared of facing their problems because of the harsh labels society brands them in. Just cause one is ignorant about the variation of experiences one can multiply experience in this life , people overlook those not even wondering if they would be half as stable as them if they were in their shoes and easily label them as abusers. People that also professional helpers are very very careful in when understanding and choosing in terming someone as abusive. And here this word is being made in to a joke.RK does not physically do anything and emotional abuse is also something we ourselves do so are we abusers then? Even people who physically abuse are first observed for many days before terming them to be an abuser or not.  And here the word is been randomly thrown everywhere. The delicacy of the word and the difficulty in diagnosing this word for so many sorts of people is next to impossible for every professional psychologist. 

Edited by Escape.My.Love. - 10 April 2013 at 7:37pm

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 7:39pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Siri22

Originally posted by Escape.My.Love.


No wonder Indian women and girls are treated the worst in the world!! You watch abuse like this EVERY evening on TV from childhood onwards and it ends with the guy saying "sorry, I love you" and its all ok and they live happily ever after???!!! THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. The countless number of girls and women, who think that her boyfriend/man/husband will change only if she loves him enough, or does what he wants etc etc, is SHOCKING

Oh and for all those who think it doesn't influence you, and you know the difference between your real life and what you enjoy watching??? If ALL of us were not being influenced, advertising which is a mulit-billion dollar industry 

Btw , Women are not treated the worst in India. The amount of rape statistics is topped by America all over the world. The only difference being , the abusers get the punnishments and the extent of punishments they deserve and never leave such issues and cases pending in court like in India. 

And I am sorry but the comment you made on how women are treated and tolerate such men shows your ignorance. Abuse is very much present but the origins of abuse , and how some abusers are not bad people is seen to be royally ignored.You want to say just cause some men are thoroughly damaged and they can only give damage they do not deserve a chance of a normal family or a normal life?Some "abusers" or the harsh term used for them are not pathological or bad men! Rather too many bad things has happened to them. The sort that are unimaginable leads them to have distorted lives and unable to be in peace despite try to settle with their own families! It is like they fight with themselves everyday but the shit they have faced all the life gets the better of them and translates to physical abuse.But what makes you think that they have any pleasure or not regret in what they do. They wish they were never like this.They fight with themselves every single day. Yes it is very difficult to live with such men , as fathers and husbands.But that does not mean they will be classified as brutal beaters or abusers. This classification is a very delicate issue.You just hear these things but you personally don't know their stories. Moreover much worse abuse has been shown within couples in Tellyworld who are still seen as "epic" , and have had much worse abuse than Rishbaala.Rishbaala is more of heart break. Not abuse. See Prem-Mukti and Angad-Kripa who I love but have much more toxicity in abuse in their stories than Rishbaala ever has.

Have to respond to this. Will surely but later. 
Don't bother. I am done arguing. 

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 7:45pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Escape.My.Love.

Originally posted by Siri22

Originally posted by Escape.My.Love.


No wonder Indian women and girls are treated the worst in the world!! You watch abuse like this EVERY evening on TV from childhood onwards and it ends with the guy saying "sorry, I love you" and its all ok and they live happily ever after???!!! THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. The countless number of girls and women, who think that her boyfriend/man/husband will change only if she loves him enough, or does what he wants etc etc, is SHOCKING

Oh and for all those who think it doesn't influence you, and you know the difference between your real life and what you enjoy watching??? If ALL of us were not being influenced, advertising which is a mulit-billion dollar industry 

Btw , Women are not treated the worst in India. The amount of rape statistics is topped by America all over the world. The only difference being , the abusers get the punnishments and the extent of punishments they deserve and never leave such issues and cases pending in court like in India. 

And I am sorry but the comment you made on how women are treated and tolerate such men shows your ignorance. Abuse is very much present but the origins of abuse , and how some abusers are not bad people is seen to be royally ignored.You want to say just cause some men are thoroughly damaged and they can only give damage they do not deserve a chance of a normal family or a normal life?Some "abusers" or the harsh term used for them are not pathological or bad men! Rather too many bad things has happened to them. The sort that are unimaginable leads them to have distorted lives and unable to be in peace despite try to settle with their own families! It is like they fight with themselves everyday but the shit they have faced all the life gets the better of them and translates to physical abuse.But what makes you think that they have any pleasure or not regret in what they do. They wish they were never like this.They fight with themselves every single day. Yes it is very difficult to live with such men , as fathers and husbands.But that does not mean they will be classified as brutal beaters or abusers. This classification is a very delicate issue.You just hear these things but you personally don't know their stories. Moreover much worse abuse has been shown within couples in Tellyworld who are still seen as "epic" , and have had much worse abuse than Rishbaala.Rishbaala is more of heart break. Not abuse. See Prem-Mukti and Angad-Kripa who I love but have much more toxicity in abuse in their stories than Rishbaala ever has.

Have to respond to this. Will surely but later. 
Don't bother. I am done arguing. 

Well after reading your sentence that "Don't we hit out at someone and vent just like that? Are we abusers?"... 

I decided not to anyways.Smile

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Posted: 10 April 2013 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Escape.My.Love.

Oh_No_Soaps - I completely disagree  in some points. Do you even how know delicate it is to actually term someone and classify someone as a psychopath? Do we not sometimes hit people around us out of vent just like that? So are we abusers? Emotional abuse has variant forms and if we closely see then normal people like us do it as well , but that does not make us beaters or abusers. Ignorance and covert abuse\passive abuse  is seemed to be a big category of abuse within emotional abuse as well which Madhu herself is doing now. When they were together , if I am not wrong Madhu used to inflict violence back and according to Johnson's categories of violence , what Rishbala do is "mutual violence control" [ MVC]. The thing about power relations within Rishbaala through control and violence has been discussed in the discussion threads many times. As in who takes the particular control of the other of showing them the "right way" through dominating them inflicts in mutual violence. It is said to be the most rare form of violence found. Madhu subjects to violence against him too , but not to always defend herself but sometimes to gain the right hand in trying to show RK that who is the boss over here and who is "right" in what they want to do. Madhu's notion of right is seen to what people see as right ie morality and RK's notion of right is seen as dominance. But both to establish their rights fight for that power through mutual violence. Nobody seems to even understand the dilemma and delicacy surrounding the diagnosis of labeling someone as abusive , because many people have different cases and just cause one hits it is not always cause it is pathological or psychopathic. Broken family and abusive childhood and traumatic events make it hard for many men to live stable lives and they cannot control that forever aggression inside them that directs as physical lashing. And one cannot say that whatever the reason - they are abusers . Branding people with traumatic experiences to be labeled something this harsh just cause those dilemmas have never been taken cared of for years is the very reason why people still are so reluctant to go for counselling and psychoanalysis. They are so scared of facing their problems because of the harsh labels society brands them in. Just cause one is ignorant about the variation of experiences one can multiply experience in this life , people overlook those not even wondering if they would be half as stable as them if they were in their shoes and easily label them as abusers. People that also professional helpers are very very careful in when understanding and choosing in terming someone as abusive. And here this word is being made in to a joke.RK does not physically do anything and emotional abuse is also something we ourselves do so are we abusers then? Even people who physically abuse are first observed for many days before terming them to be an abuser or not.  And here the word is been randomly thrown everywhere. The delicacy of the word and the difficulty in diagnosing this word for so many sorts of people is next to impossible for every professional psychologist. 
you make some really valid points viz a viz their mutual relationship and also how much of an analysis and observation goes into before some one is termed as sociopath. I wont deny that I too have not accepted this term for RK fully. He does have some very remarkable differences from a typical psychopath but then he does meet most of the criterias. so far Madhus violence goes most of it was either a result of self defence mechanism or ethical battle as you have said ...while in mutual relationship your observation stands correct but the reason makes all the ammount of difference required. SO while your reasoning does have some valid points  but it fails to put their relation in the category of mutual violence control.

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