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A Few Corrections

koolsadhu1000 IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 11 March 2013 at 8:10am | IP Logged
The defeat and killing of Khara and Dushana is a landmark in Ramayana for Ram has defeated the army of 14000 alone .

And while doing this , he has asked Sita to remain hidden in a cave with Laxman guarding her . They were not  in the hermitage looking out for him the whole time in the visible eye .

Such was the brilliance and mastery over the art of archery that the Rakshasa army was taken aback . I personally feel this battle truly brings out his glory ...even more than the final battle for we get a glimpse of his skill and true nature here .

I  suggest better research to the team next time ...they were not in the hut but a cave .

Also , a word about the relationship that existed between Ravan and Mandodari .

Mandodari is regarded as a pativrata .  She was known for her wisdom like the Queen of Sheba . Ravan respected her enormously ...she was his first and only love though he had many queens . Whenever Ravan was in a dilemma he sought out her counsel . He never yelled at her but considered what she said . He knew that she always had his good at her heart felt advice ...that it would be objective and only keeping his welfare in mind .

The companionship between Ravan and Mandodari ...one of love and mutual respect is legendary . So i do not understand why it is falsified thus  by showing him yelling at her and what not ...it is such blatant rubbish . He loved her till the end .

He abducted Sita not   justcoz he was a lusty man but more as his sister's nose had been cut and his brothers had been killed . He regarded it as an affront to his ego . Ravan had complete control over his senses as he was a great tapasvi . He was not a man of loose morals . He did not touch Sita by force when he kept her  for months in the Ashoka forest . His aim was not rape of a woman but humiliation of the man exactly where it hit him sorely just the way he had been humiliated .

Mandodari advised him that by abducting a woman he was crossing boundaries which was hitherto not the protocol observed either by the Devas or the Rakshasas . Breaking protocol led to war . Nothing good came of it . True his sister's nose had been cut but his sister had gone there herself and attacked first .She he had not been abducted . So while what happened to his sister was bad , she invited it .

Ravan knew in his heart that what she said was the truth . But his ego had taken a batttering . Till the end he listened silently to her advices although things had gone out of his hand and spiralled out of control . When Indrajeet died he lost interest in winning , for him it was then a matter of finishing what he started and he acknowleged to Mandodari when he set out that she was right all along .

Mandodari has wept bitterly when he has died ...such was the love that existed between the two . The companionship between Duryodhan and Bhanumati  and Ravan Mandodari is worth reading .

Never had Ravan raised his voice at her .

I hope CVs read this post and correct themselves .


Edited by koolsadhu1000 - 11 March 2013 at 1:14pm

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Posted: 11 March 2013 at 1:45pm | IP Logged
Sita and Lakshman remaining in a cave while Ram fights Khar-Dushan is from Valmiki Ramayan. Other versions like Ramcharitmanas and Adhyatma Ramayan write the scene differently.
 
Zee Tv Ramayan doesn't follow just one source. It picks and chooses scenes from all sorts of different sources so we cannot say one scene is right and one scene is wrong. There is no clear cut answer for Ramayan. Different sources say different things and as long as the characters of Ram, Sita, and Lakshman remain intact, that is what matters.
 
Same for the relationship of Ravan and Mandodari. In some versions they have a loving relationship while in others, Mandodari is the neglected bitter queen. In some versions Ravan is written as a yogi while in other versions he is written as lustful towards other women. Why else would he have had 100s of wives and concubines? Why else would he have abducted the wives of others? If Ravan truly loved Mandodari, he'd have remained faithful to her. His love for her may have been real, but he certainly had a straying eye. He had no respect for women, and that is one of the reasons Shri Ram killed him.
 
Sita was not the first woman Ravan had abducted. He had abducted many sages' wives, apsaras, gandharvas, kinneras, and other divine kanyas with lustful intentions. He also raped Rambha, who was the daughter-in-law of his brother Kubera. It was because of Nalkubera's curse that he did not try to touch Sita, because had he tried to force himself on her his head would have broken into 7 pieces. Ravan's obsession for women was his downfall, regardless of his love for Mandodari. He was no yogi. He may have been born into a Brahmin dynasty, but he was a rakshasa by nature and this is written in the Ramayan too. If Ravan was truly good at heart, Shri Vishnu would not have had to be born as a human to kill him. Ravan was becoming unbearable to humankind so there was no choice for the Gods.
 
There is just no clear cut answer for the epic of Ramayana. As long as the production house does use scenes from some kind of source and not make up their own fictional stories, I don't have a problem with what they show. The recent episodes have actually been pretty accurate.


Edited by JanakiRaghunath - 11 March 2013 at 1:49pm

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Posted: 11 March 2013 at 2:58pm | IP Logged
How do Ramcharit manas and Adhyatma Ramayan  write this scene ? That Sita and Lakxman stayed in a hermitage ? I  would love to know what they say and i say this without sarcasm as i wrote what i know as per my knowledge . I am fully ready to expand it .

Regarding the relationship between Ravan and Mandodari  i differ for all versions insist on the same equation between them ...respect from her husband . In all versions she is described as beautiful , pious and chaste and respected by Ravan . Here it is shown that Ravan yells at her and is irritated by her counsel and she constantly disturbing him like a well meaning nag . That was not how i read about her .

She was the daughter of the powerful demon king Mayasur and the apsara Hema and she had inherited Hema's beauty . Infact so much is spoken of her beauty that the bachelor God Hanuman is effusive in his praise of her and mistook her for Sita .

Ravan has fallen in love with with her when he visited Mayasur . He later fell more and more in love with her cut throat objectivity and wisdom . I am not saying he always listened to her . Nor am i saying  that he never found other women attractive . He was a Rakshasa and Rakshasi sanskriti was different from the sanskariti that the Devas followed . Abduction of women by force if they did not agree , eating meat , drinking alcohol , pursuing black tantra practices were allowed freely in their culture . The Rakshasa were not Vaishnavas , they worshipped Shiva .

Mandodari was well aware of his fondness for beautiful women but she did not mind it as it was a hall mark of Rakshasi culture . It was the norm of the day . She cautioned him when he got out of hand in the case of Vedvati and Nala kubera's wife .

Nowhere am i saying he did the good thing or that he was a good man . All i am saying is he loved her . His relationship with her was strange ...he did not always listen to her but he sought her counsel and listened sulkily and silently as she spoke her mind and told him the truth as it was . She was his voice of objectivity . Very few women had this brave attitude ...of never compromising on their judgement . Mandana Mishra's wife had this impartial intelligence when she declared Adi Shankaracharya as the winner against her husband in the debate . Mandodari had it .

Ravana was very proud of her chastity . ersions may differ in details but no version cites her as the bitter neglected queen and refutes Ravan as a yogi . He could be one when time demanded as he had yogi blood and training from his father's side .

Mandodari has held his hand and stopped him from beheading Sita when Sita insulted him once . She has told him that it was a sin to behead a woman .  Ravana's weakness was his rage and ego . Whereas she was even tempered and objective , beautiful and pious .

I  know that they take from many versions but the fact that they were in love and that Ravan was a yogi too is in all versions . Also the abduction of Sita was more revengeful than lust is my point coz by then his ego had taken a royal battering .


Edited by koolsadhu1000 - 11 March 2013 at 3:01pm

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Posted: 11 March 2013 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by koolsadhu1000

How do Ramcharit manas and Adhyatma Ramayan  write this scene ? That Sita and Lakxman stayed in a hermitage ? I  would love to know what they say and i say this without sarcasm as i wrote what i know as per my knowledge . I am fully ready to expand it ....yes they didnt showed lakshman hiding sita in the cave but does it matter anyhow i m sure no lesson was missed wht was the big deal ?

Regarding the relationship between Ravan and Mandodari  i differ for all versions insist on the same equation between them ...respect from her husband . In all versions she is described as beautiful , pious and chaste and respected by Ravan . Here it is shown that Ravan yells at her and is irritated by her counsel and she constantly disturbing him like a well meaning nag . That was not how i read about her . emm now if we talk about the major version mandodari is hardly mentioned valmiki or tulsidas version hardly wrote about their relationship

She was the daughter of the powerful demon king Mayasur and the apsara Hema and she had inherited Hema's beauty . Infact so much is spoken of her beauty that the bachelor God Hanuman is effusive in his praise of her and mistook her for Sita .

Ravan has fallen in love with with her when he visited Mayasur . He later fell more and more in love with her cut throat objectivity and wisdom . I am not saying he always listened to her . Nor am i saying  that he never found other women attractive . He was a Rakshasa and Rakshasi sanskriti was different from the sanskariti that the Devas followed . Abduction of women by force if they did not agree , eating meat , drinking alcohol , pursuing black tantra practices were allowed freely in their culture . The Rakshasa were not Vaishnavas , they worshipped Shiva .

Mandodari was well aware of his fondness for beautiful women but she did not mind it as it was a hall mark of Rakshasi culture . It was the norm of the day . She cautioned him when he got out of hand in the case of Vedvati and Nala kubera's wife .

Nowhere am i saying he did the good thing or that he was a good man . All i am saying is he loved her . His relationship with her was strange ...he did not always listen to her but he sought her counsel and listened sulkily and silently as she spoke her mind and told him the truth as it was . She was his voice of objectivity . Very few women had this brave attitude ...of never compromising on their judgement . Mandana Mishra's wife had this impartial intelligence when she declared Adi Shankaracharya as the winner against her husband in the debate . Mandodari had it .

Ravana was very proud of her chastity . ersions may differ in details but no version cites her as the bitter neglected queen and refutes Ravan as a yogi . He could be one when time demanded as he had yogi blood and training from his father's side .

Mandodari has held his hand and stopped him from beheading Sita when Sita insulted him once . She has told him that it was a sin to behead a woman .  Ravana's weakness was his rage and ego . Whereas she was even tempered and objective , beautiful and pious .

hmm but the show isnt ravana its ramayanaEmbarrassed mandodari was a wise lady but ravana never listened to her this is wat depicted in ramcharitmanas and valmiki version she said to return her but he didnt listened she chided him she adviced him but he didnt heed to her advice here is the link ...http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/yuddha/sarga111/yuddha_111_frame.htm ...now wat should we deduce was he a caring husband or a careless oneEmbarrassed...

I  know that they take from many versions but the fact that they were in love and that Ravan was a yogi too is in all versions . Also the abduction of Sita was more revengeful than lust is my point coz by then his ego had taken a royal battering ....no it was reverngeful but it was out of lust its depicted in valmiki ramayana tht ravana was already infuactuated wen surpnakha described seeta's beauty and he became lustful wen he saw her...here is the link http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/aranya/sarga46/aranya_46_frame.htm
 http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/aranya/sarga47/aranya_47_frame.htm

coming to the main point i do feel they are following ramcharitmanas and valmiki ramayana ofc at times they include someother versions too but they cant strictly restrict themselves where is creativity then...i personally loved khar dushan war as they depicted the solar eclipses the bad omen of khar and dushan the 14 soldier being first killed by lord rama the dialogue were kept intact so they were actually close to valmiki ramayana they did better job than the previous ramayana...Embarrassed

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Posted: 11 March 2013 at 4:05pm | IP Logged
Er ...i did not quite understand 'whats the big deal part' i believe its a serial and everyone is supposed to give his or her observations ? 

Neither do i say Sita's beauty never ever affected Ravan ...he was too much of a full blooded rakshasa for that ...all i am saying is revenge was the primary motive ?

I know that it is the Ramayana not Ravan's life we r seeing but without him there is no Ramayan ?

Dunno what u mean by the 'major  version' but i beg to differ when u say relationship between Ravan and Mandodari is hardly mentioned as they r integral part of the epic ?

The reason i made this post is coz uptill now Ravan is shown constantly irritated , snapping at his queen ? Totally a wrong fact .

So thought of bringing to notice of Cvs . Bas .






Edited by koolsadhu1000 - 11 March 2013 at 4:07pm

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Posted: 11 March 2013 at 6:18pm | IP Logged
Ravan  must have truly loved mandodari..no denying that but that does not mean they might have never had difference of opinion. Right now the show is focussing on one such context where mandodari disagrees with RAVAN...i dont think they can show how they were so much in love..the scenes are contextual...so how can we deduce their equation merely by seeing one altercation..thats not right approach..i chose to believe he might have ignored mandodari.and could have very will disrespected her..after all he had this big ego...or else if he cared so much for mandodari..then why exactly he proceeds his plan for revenge..
and i agree with janaki ..apart from ego..another major reason for ravana's downfall was his weakness for women..


Edited by nneeiill - 11 March 2013 at 6:19pm

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Posted: 11 March 2013 at 7:32pm | IP Logged
@koolsaadhu1000,
 
Mandodari was no doubt a chaste lady. She is listed among the Panch Kanyas known for their chastity. Ravan also is renown for some qualities. He was a great scholar and a great devotee of Shiva, but he also had his vices, and these vices were the reason of his downfall.
 
Ravan may have loved Mandodari. I am not denying that, but his love for her was also limited. Arti is right. Neither Valmiki Ramayan nor Ramcharitmanas describe the relationship of Ravan and Mandodari too much, besides Mandodari advising him to release Sita. In fact, Valmiki Ramayan also mentions that Ravan was ready to make Sita his chief Queen if she agree to marry him. He was ready to replace Mandodari's position as chief Queen by making Sita take her position. Now you tell me. Is that the mark of a husband's true love? Ravan may have loved Mandodari, but his love had faults and it also had limits. Mandodari's love for Ravan on the other hand was unconditional. She loved him without limits. I read from some version before that Mandodari was a bitter queen, but most of the popular versions describe her as a dedicated wife.
 
As for Ravan abducting other's wives, it's true that forceful marriage was not against Rakshas Dharma, but it was against the Dharma of God, and the Dharma of God reigns over the Dharma of Humans or Demons. That is why Vishnu came on Earth to punish Ravan. If Ravan's deeds were right according to his own Dharma, then what reason would God have to punish him? Shri Ram himself said this to Ravan when they were face to face. Abducting women may be right for demons, but it's a sin under the law of God and the low of God surpasses all others.
 
We cannot deny that Ravan was a womanizer. His initial objective in abducting Sita may have been revenge against Ram, but once he saw Sita at Panchavati, he felt lust for her and wanted her as his chief Queen. The only think keeping him away from forcing himself on her was Nalkubera's curse, otherwise Ravan forced himself on many many women before her. Why would Sita be any different?

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Posted: 11 March 2013 at 7:36pm | IP Logged
As for the Khar-Dushan episode, Ramchartimanas is very different from Valmiki's excerpt.
 
In Valmiki, Ram battles with Khar and Dushan's army like a warrior, but in Ramcharitmanas, Ram uses one arrow to kill all 14,000 rakshasas, and he then kills Khar and Dushan. Although RCM does not use the term "Mohini Astra", I believe Ananda Ramayana describes Ram invoking the Mohini astra to kill Khar and Dushan's army. By using the Mohini Astra, Ram makes all the rakshasas think they are battling with Ram, when they are in fact battling with each other. This way, they all kill each other in a matter of minutes. After that, Ram invokes other divine astras and kills Khar, Dushan, and Trishira. The battle in RCM or Ananda Ramayana doesn't take that long, and no eclipse is mentioned like in Valmiki.
 
As for Sita and Lakshman, neither Ramcharitmanas nor Ananda Ramayana describe them going to a cave (as far as I know). Ram just tells Lakshman to guard Sita and leaves his cottage.
 
Either way, this small detail is insignificant. What does it matter whether Lakshman took Sita to a cave or not?Confused

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