If India is so great, why'd you leave. (Page 8) (Debate Mansion Forum)

Xarina IF-Sizzlerz

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Posted: 10 February 2013 at 3:08am | IP Logged

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Originally posted by reeha...k

Hi All,

This is just a general discussion and me venting my frustrations, so maybe I'll get an answer to my question here.

Some background:

My dad left India when he was 19, on his own he moved to Holland (Netherlands) and was there for 10 years before he came to Canada. Married, has some kids, etc. He's only been back to the mother land 5 times in that span. He's now 57. That is 38 Years, he's lived abroad- most of his life, and all of his adult life. He's a Canadian citizen, has decent English, is a big Hockey fan, etc, etc.

Issue:

He's so high up on "Mera Bharat Mahan" ideology. I get pride in your heritage, that's fine. But it's to the point where he's literally like: Indian girls don't wear/eat/talk/dress/think/look/act/behave like that, Some of his scentences are, "Well in INDIA..." and I could go on and on and on.

And I've said (Yes, I'm snarky enough to say it) "Well, why'd you move."; "What's stopping you from going back?" - All I get is the death stare, and look from him; my siblings grin and my mom rolls her eyes.

It's a legitmate question: If India is so fan-freaking-tastic (NOTE, I am not saying it is or it isn't that isn't my point) then why have millions choosen to leave? And why are Millions dying to leave?

Cheers,

Reeha

I am originally from Pakistan and suffered from the same thing while growing up in the UK. My parents always waxed lyrical about the mother land and how everything was great there. What they had was a romanticised notion of life back home. All the bad things are ignored and the good times seen with ros coloured glasses. As for their girls in Pakistan don't ... I found mine were extremely strict and we led quite a restrictive life. I remember being so upset when we finally did visit Pakistan that the girls there had way more freedom than we did. Why did they do that? Only years later did I realise that they remember the Pakistan as at the time they left. Sort of like stuck in a time warp. The country itself may have moved on but they hadn't.

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reeha...k IF-Rockerz

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Posted: 25 February 2013 at 1:20pm | IP Logged

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Originally posted by TheBoss

Interesting inputs from both sides, cant say anybody are wrong here.

Personally for me what grinds my gears is when people expect nationalism from me. I was born in the US and grew up in Canada, to me this are my mother countries. My interests, emotions, and patriotism is obviously invested here since I have no bearing to India.

Its no fault of mine like the way some feel strongly about India, I feel and have the same sentiments for US or Canada since that is my home country.

But oftenly people ask me where Im from, when I say US or Canada, they still wanna know where from in India. Angry

OMG, I could give you a HUG right now! LOLOL!

Agreed, completely agree!

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reeha...k IF-Rockerz

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Posted: 25 February 2013 at 1:21pm | IP Logged

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Originally posted by McNinja

I used to have the same annoyance with my dad when I was an angry teenager. I didn't mind him missing his motherland but had issues with him talking down about the States. My sheltered mind felt one should show some sort of nationalism to the country that gave them so much, what with America being the land of the free and home of the brave, the land of opportunity that he fully benefited from.

But today, a few years down the road, I've realized it's all overrated. And maybe ur fathers had this realization also at some point. As Goethe said, None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

Me, I think being a patriot or showing some sort of nationalism is a waste of time unless we're talking the Worldcup.

World Cup?! I think you surely meant the WJs or the IIHF International Tourneys ;)

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Posted: 25 February 2013 at 11:37pm | IP Logged

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Originally posted by TheTruth

So, the question is, if India is so great why would you leave? That's easy. Pursuit of happiness. People have been migrating to different countries for betterment of their own lives and their next generations. Nothing wrong with that as long as it is done legally. But nationality and culture need not be the same? Unless of course, Canada has that requirement. I believe not.

To the OP - think of it this way, if you are born in Canada, love the culture with the Indian ethnicity (well, skin color at the least) and have head over heels fallen in love with Canada, would it not be natural for a person who was born in India with the inherent Indian ethnicity to hold on to (and think highly of) his culture and values?

At this point, I am just not sure what the problem is.

@Bold Pursuit of happiness in what sense? Does the West guarantee betterment or happiness? Fact is most people migrate out and have to work a lot harder, for a lot less to spend a lot more.

Suicide rates of western countries are generally higher than those in India. Makes me wonder about the much boasted quality of life out here LOL

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Posted: 25 February 2013 at 11:43pm | IP Logged

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Originally posted by reeha...k

Originally posted by McNinja

I used to have the same annoyance with my dad when I was an angry teenager. I didn't mind him missing his motherland but had issues with him talking down about the States. My sheltered mind felt one should show some sort of nationalism to the country that gave them so much, what with America being the land of the free and home of the brave, the land of opportunity that he fully benefited from.

But today, a few years down the road, I've realized it's all overrated. And maybe ur fathers had this realization also at some point. As Goethe said, None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

Me, I think being a patriot or showing some sort of nationalism is a waste of time unless we're talking the Worldcup.

World Cup?! I think you surely meant the WJs or the IIHF International Tourneys ;)

...I didn't notice your DP before or would have said as much about hockey instead.

Edited by McNinja - 25 February 2013 at 11:43pm

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Posted: 26 February 2013 at 12:10pm | IP Logged

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Originally posted by TheTruth

So, the question is, if India is so great why would you leave? That's easy. Pursuit of happiness. People have been migrating to different countries for betterment of their own lives and their next generations. Nothing wrong with that as long as it is done legally. But nationality and culture need not be the same? Unless of course, Canada has that requirement. I believe not.

To the OP - think of it this way, if you are born in Canada, love the culture with the Indian ethnicity (well, skin color at the least) and have head over heels fallen in love with Canada, would it not be natural for a person who was born in India with the inherent Indian ethnicity to hold on to (and think highly of) his culture and values?

At this point, I am just not sure what the problem is.

Just to play devil's advocate: If it is the pursuit of happiness, then what is lacking in one's own nation that they're unable to obtain said "happiness" in the homeland?

The problem I'm having with my father is that he can take all the things Canada has to offer, and still scoff at the nation he's lived in for most of his life yet place india on a pedestal. If you read the comments others have made, I do believe they've answered the question: That it's simply an idealistic, and yes some what incorrect attachment and notion he has. Homesickness.

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reeha...k IF-Rockerz

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Posted: 26 February 2013 at 12:12pm | IP Logged

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Originally posted by McNinja

...I didn't notice your DP before or would have said as much about hockey instead.

There is no sport like Ice Hockey. It's so underrated due to climate restrictions (not to mention it's bloody expensive): Fast paced, Hard hitting, and exciting as hell! GCG and GTCG!

Edited by reeha...k - 26 February 2013 at 12:11pm

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Posted: 26 February 2013 at 1:43pm | IP Logged

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Originally posted by TheTruth

I am not sure if I follow? You do realize that happiness is not yes/no or true/false kind of a Boolean logic. So it is not like you can be happy or unhappy. You can be happy but you may yearn more. Noting wrong with that. Similarly, in your dad's case, he was not "unhappy" in India. He was just striving for better life for himself and his kids. Again, nothing wrong with that.

I do not quite get this point either:

Striving for a betterment in life (at the time it was his life alone, as he was a bachlor) is usually tied in with "happiness" as isn't satisfaction, peace of mind all a part of happiness? Although, that's debatable as well. My point is: If things are so wonderful, why does one choose to leave, then use the resources the adopted country has to offer, yet think the homeland was superior to begin with? If the homeland WAS/IS superior to begin with- why does one leave in the first place? It's also an attitude you might not understand unless you've seen this in action. It isn't as simple as love for one's country- it's not just that: It's this attitude.

What is wrong with that again? Why are you thinking that your father was entitled to "all the things Canada has to offer"? Maybe he earned those things with hard-work? Just a thought. I am not sure why should he not put India on pedestal. Ofcourse he worked hard, but one can work hard anywhere. The reason I say what Canada has to offer is because Canada's social structure is much different compared to India: Universal Health Care; EI; CPP etc. It's not perfect, but it is very different from what one would see elsewhere.

Ok, apply critical thinking and think of flip side. Say, your dad runs for the highest office in the nation. Would his original nationality not be questioned? Would he not be automatically be subject to assumption that since your dad was born in another country, he cannot love Canada as much as a person born in Canada? And that would be a valid assumption, right? Not really: It depends on how one would act in public, where he show's his love and his persona- there are plenty of East Indian born Canadians who have created niches in Canadian society and love their home land as well; without any criticism.
To use your example in a Canadian context- If he's running for the PM, it wouldn't be an issue. If he were in the United States, it would be because he is not American Born. Different nations have different political technicalities. If we're looking at a Canadian perspective there have been MPs, MLAs and Cabinet Ministers (currently and in the Past) not to mention attorney generals galore who are of Indian Origin but Canadian citizens. There is no double standard in that regard: its a democracy, you get elected; for others, if you are elected, you get selected.

Sorry for a long reply but I hope you get the point.

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