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Is it OK to be a wife beater? (Page 9)

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TheBoss

IF-Dazzler

TheBoss

Joined: 06 October 2011

Posts: 4702

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 9:23am | IP Logged
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum


^ most of the solutions above have a after-the-horse-has-left-the-barn kind of feel to it.LOL Guys have to be indoctrinated to not harm girls, at schools, in homes, as mandatory courses they have to take before they get ration IDs or drivers ID. And make the folks signing off on those cards accomplices to crime in case the guy they signed off on does something wrong...

i am all for punishment but i dont think even a death penalty would be enough to deter rapists, let alone domestic abusers. They are too far gone if they can even think like that. What is needed is a cultural shift in attitudes...  



Exactly, while I fully agree with the above pointers they really do not actually do anything about the issue itself. Smile

There are so many people here who are getting worked up and telling me everybody's situation is different and all I hear is justification but no solutions. I tried to logically debate this issue and addressed to all pointers and backed up my posts with reasonable explanation but we are going in circles.

I only pose this question: How do you deal with a person who beats you up and refuses to change?  
Its very simply you cant. It just cannot be reasoned or worked with and at the end of the day he will continue to beat you up, so there is really no point being in that relationship anymore, time to cut your losses and move on.

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BirdieNumNum

Senior Member

BirdieNumNum

Joined: 07 October 2012

Posts: 967

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 9:34am | IP Logged
Originally posted by TheBoss


Exactly, while I fully agree with the above pointers they really do not actually do anything about the issue itself. Smile

There are so many people here who are getting worked up and telling me everybody's situation is different and all I hear is justification but no solutions. I tried to logically debate this issue and addressed to all pointers and backed up my posts with reasonable explanation but we are going in circles.

I only pose this question: How do you deal with a person who beats you up and refuses to change?  
Its very simply you cant. It just cannot be reasoned or worked with and at the end of the day he will continue to beat you up, so there is really no point being in that relationship anymore, time to cut your losses and move on.

regarding cutting your losses, that's one side of the equation. There are other factors too eg. kids, financial stability, overall quality of life etc. They are the ones best suitable to make that decision. As outsiders, we can never have that insight. All one can do is provide worthwhile options they can explore (eg. shelters for battered women) and exercise without fear. If they want to leave, there should be be a support system. No point consigning them to a life that might turn out to be worse (and i suppose that fear keeps plenty of women hooked in the relationship, even an abusive one).

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TheBoss

TheBoss

IF-Dazzler

TheBoss

Joined: 06 October 2011

Posts: 4702

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 9:39am | IP Logged
Originally posted by _Angie_

Welcome to the real world and real chehere! Now for some real solutions for a real world -
 
@ RTH-  Some suggestions for your consideration:
 

1.     Report incidences of domestic violence that one notices in ones neighbourhood to a designated helpline. Waiting for a victim to lodge a complaint doesn't seem very  logical. 

Doesnt help the solution, will piss off the husband more.

2.     More pro-active role by the Woman and child commission and NGOs  in the country.

I agree, better education and support is needed.

3.     On receiving complaints the commission needs to ensure that prompt and stern action is taken

Doesnt help the solution, it means girl is already single by now, doesnt help her marriage.

4.     Regular visits to such homes by social workers/volunteers /NGOs to ensure safety of the woman  

Wouldnt work, people put on a good fake show. A little intimidation goes a long way. In the end even if the guy gets caught it doesnt help the girl with her marital situation does it?

5.     Support offered to the woman in  the form of some vocational training and  opportunities to earn a decent livelihood.

This I totally agree with, more financial support and training is important and goes a long way, whole heartedly agree.

6.     Decent crche facilities for the women's kids so that she can work without worrying about them.

Totally agree see above No 5.

7.     Make domestic violence punishable. ( Short term jail would suffice in most cases to put the fear even in men claiming to possess a "spine" who somehow always prefer to marry spineless women!)

Same thing, guy goes to jail marriage breaks. If and when he returns he is more angrier than ever before.

8.     Professional counseling for the couple .  

If it comes to this then chances are he likely hit her. Besides most counselling dont work there is a perverse rush of feeling to feel superior and hit ppl wouldnt be given up so easily.

9.     Repeat offenders to  get jail term with compulsory training to make round chappatis. If they fail shove toilet paper down their throats.

Same, doesnt help the girl by this point she is already alone.

10.  Set up Reformatory Homes for repeat domestic abusers. Unlike the juvenile board there should be no release unless certified as reformed.

Only saves future victims so I somewhat agree.

*Feel free to add to the list 'Tongue


You raise some good points, I agree with few suggestions while I find the others unworkable. As you can see most of your pointers only apply when she is no longer with the guy which comes back to my point all along that there is no point being in such relationships after all. Smile

TheBoss

IF-Dazzler

TheBoss

Joined: 06 October 2011

Posts: 4702

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 9:45am | IP Logged
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum


regarding cutting your losses, that's one side of the equation. There are other factors too eg. kids, financial stability, overall quality of life etc. They are the ones best suitable to make that decision. As outsiders, we can never have that insight. All one can do is provide worthwhile options they can explore (eg. shelters for battered women) and exercise without fear. If they want to leave, there should be be a support system. No point consigning them to a life that might turn out to be worse (and i suppose that fear keeps plenty of women hooked in the relationship, even an abusive one).

But you do agree that it means she will end up being the punching bag? I totally understand where you are coming from but if I understand correctly you are implying that based on so and so conditions (which are out of her reach/situation) she has to put up with.

Now don't misunderstand me I totally get it, but it does mean that she will continue to suffer wouldn't she? For however long it may be right? But let me ask you this in the end is it worth it?

I agree to the rest of your suggestion about shelter, better support system and training etc. That is the right approach, that should boost the confidence and make them make the move and it should be that way.

_Angie_

IF-Rockerz

_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008

Posts: 9888

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 9:58am | IP Logged
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum


^ most of the solutions above have a after-the-horse-has-left-the-barn kind of feel to it.LOL Guys have to be indoctrinated to not harm girls, at schools, in homes, as mandatory courses they have to take before they get ration IDs or drivers ID. And make the folks signing off on those cards accomplices to crime in case the guy they signed off on does something wrong...

i am all for punishment but i dont think even a death penalty would be enough to deter rapists, let alone domestic abusers. They are too far gone if they can even think like that. What is needed is a cultural shift in attitudes...  

 
The question pertained to the situation where the horse had left the barn. The problem at hand needs to be addressed on priority before moving on to long term solutions. There is no need to give up on the case in hand while a workable solution is still possible. Punishment works when accompanied with surveillance and monitoring. That is application of immediate negative reinforcement of conditioned response.

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zorrro

_Angie_

IF-Rockerz

_Angie_

Joined: 21 February 2008

Posts: 9888

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 10:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by TheBoss

Originally posted by _Angie_

Welcome to the real world and real chehere! Now for some real solutions for a real world -
 
@ RTH-  Some suggestions for your consideration:
 

1.     Report incidences of domestic violence that one notices in ones neighbourhood to a designated helpline. Waiting for a victim to lodge a complaint doesn't seem very  logical. 

Doesnt help the solution, will piss off the husband more.

2.     More pro-active role by the Woman and child commission and NGOs  in the country.

I agree, better education and support is needed.

3.     On receiving complaints the commission needs to ensure that prompt and stern action is taken

Doesnt help the solution, it means girl is already single by now, doesnt help her marriage.

4.     Regular visits to such homes by social workers/volunteers /NGOs to ensure safety of the woman  

Wouldnt work, people put on a good fake show. A little intimidation goes a long way. In the end even if the guy gets caught it doesnt help the girl with her marital situation does it?

5.     Support offered to the woman in  the form of some vocational training and  opportunities to earn a decent livelihood.

This I totally agree with, more financial support and training is important and goes a long way, whole heartedly agree.

6.     Decent crche facilities for the women's kids so that she can work without worrying about them.

Totally agree see above No 5.

7.     Make domestic violence punishable. ( Short term jail would suffice in most cases to put the fear even in men claiming to possess a "spine" who somehow always prefer to marry spineless women!)

Same thing, guy goes to jail marriage breaks. If and when he returns he is more angrier than ever before.

8.     Professional counseling for the couple .  

If it comes to this then chances are he likely hit her. Besides most counselling dont work there is a perverse rush of feeling to feel superior and hit ppl wouldnt be given up so easily.

9.     Repeat offenders to  get jail term with compulsory training to make round chappatis. If they fail shove toilet paper down their throats.

Same, doesnt help the girl by this point she is already alone.

10.  Set up Reformatory Homes for repeat domestic abusers. Unlike the juvenile board there should be no release unless certified as reformed.

Only saves future victims so I somewhat agree.

*Feel free to add to the list 'Tongue


You raise some good points, I agree with few suggestions while I find the others unworkable. As you can see most of your pointers only apply when she is no longer with the guy which comes back to my point all along that there is no point being in such relationships after all. Smile
 
The idea is to help her realise that she is better off without such a scum and help her cope till she does that . Also to offer options and help needed to make that move.

BirdieNumNum

Senior Member

BirdieNumNum

Joined: 07 October 2012

Posts: 967

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 10:20am | IP Logged
Originally posted by TheBoss


But you do agree that it means she will end up being the punching bag? I totally understand where you are coming from but if I understand correctly you are implying that based on so and so conditions (which are out of her reach/situation) she has to put up with.

Now don't misunderstand me I totally get it, but it does mean that she will continue to suffer wouldn't she? For however long it may be right? But let me ask you this in the end is it worth it?

I agree to the rest of your suggestion about shelter, better support system and training etc. That is the right approach, that should boost the confidence and make them make the move and it should be that way.

things are not only black and white. There are tradeoffs.. there's also mental abuse, physical abuse... Some people can take physical torture, not mental...Which is worse depends on situation, on frequency, on the person's ability to cope with either.. a host of factors. 

now let's take a hypothetical situation. Assume guy beats his wife once in a while and he'll never change. Rest of the time, he is very loving, gives her a great life. They have kids who are in critical years and need the two together. He basically has those one nights that he's too drunk and out of control. What would you recommend she do? Walk out on him? Try to help him overcome his problem, not knowing if he'll ever improve? Life often throws up difficult tradeoffs one has to make and there's not always any clear-cut solutions.


Edited by BirdieNumNum - 01 February 2013 at 10:17am

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TheBoss

K.Universe.

Goldie

K.Universe.

Joined: 02 September 2012

Posts: 1146

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 10:21am | IP Logged
Originally posted by _Angie_

1.     Report incidences of domestic violence that one notices in ones neighbourhood to a designated helpline. Waiting for a victim to lodge a complaint doesn't seem very  logical.

2.     More pro-active role by the Woman and child commission and NGOs  in the country.

3.     On receiving complaints the commission needs to ensure that prompt and stern action is taken

4.     Regular visits to such homes by social workers/volunteers /NGOs to ensure safety of the woman  

5.     Support offered to the woman in  the form of some vocational training and  opportunities to earn a decent livelihood.

6.     Decent crche facilities for the women's kids so that she can work without worrying about them.

7.     Make domestic violence punishable. ( Short term jail would suffice in most cases to put the fear even in men claiming to possess a "spine" who somehow always prefer to marry spineless women!)

8.     Professional counseling for the couple .  

9.     Repeat offenders to  get jail term with compulsory training to make round chappatis. If they fail shove toilet paper down their throats.

10.  Set up Reformatory Homes for repeat domestic abusers. Unlike the juvenile board there should be no release unless certified as reformed.


[K] I am afraid this is too simplistic, too optimistic and too Indian-Administrative-Service-like, Angie. Besides, you are planning on dragging the entire country into the confines of the home.

Originally posted by _Angie_

*Feel free to add to the list 'Tongue

[K] Women, as a collective entity, need to evolve, and in this process of evolution learn to figure out how to out-smart the strong and acquire more leverage than they currently have, Sorry, but this is definitely not a short-term solution.



Edited by K.Universe. - 01 February 2013 at 10:16am

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TheBoss

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