Originally posted by hukshila
Originally posted by Hessa85
Wa Alaikum Assalam Warahmatullahi Wabaraktuh
Originally posted by hukshila
Assalam o Alaikum
The date of birth is not confirmed at 12th Rabiulawal but his death date is confirmed on 12th Rabi ul Awal and there is not doubt about the death date of being 12th Rabi ul Awal as our beloved Prophet Mohammad peace be upon Him's death date
CONTRADICTIONS FOR 12 RABI UL AWAL AS BIRTH DATE OF OUR PROPHET MOHAMMAD PEACE BE UPON HIM
1 He was born on 10th Moharram (Guniat ul talbin by Abdul Qadir Jelani)
2 Born on 8th Rabi ul Awal (Fatawa e Rizwia vol 28)
3 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th or 12th rabil ul awal as date of birth is mentioned (there are actually 16 different sayings in Albidayah Walnahaya by Hafiz Ibn e Kathir, the writer of tafsir Ibn e Kathir whose tafsir e Qur'an is considered as most authentic tafsir ul Quran)
4 Born on 12 Rabi ul Awal (sirata by Ibn e Hashaam)
5 Born on 9 Rabiul Awal (Alrhiq ul Makhtoom. The best award winning book in the world on seerat in a competition held in Saudia by Maulana Safi ur Rehman Mubarikpuri)
6 Born on 9th Rabiul Awal (Seerat ul Nabi by Shibli Naumani)
7 Born on 9th Rabiul Awal (Rehmat ul lil alameen by Sayed Suleman Mansoor)
Allah said in Surah Almaedah Verse 3
This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL-ISLAM.
when the religion has been completed why should we celebrate and fix this
day as eid when We have not told about it? Even in wikipedia its mentioned its mention
that it has been officially celebrated in12th century for the first time.
its the new invention in Islam, Prophet Peace be upon him strictly
condemn any newly inventing thing in Islam and told that it is strictly unacceptable to
invent any new thing. there is no eid in islam beisde Eid ul Fiter and Eid
I have my own books of Ahadith, We can not find any
single reference of celebrating Melad un Nabi from Mohammad Peace be
upon him n his companions, indeed its an invention in religions n every
invention is bida'ah. Masnad Ahmad 126/4, Abud Dawood 4607, more ahadith
on the innovations and their rejection can be find in (Bukhari 2697,
Muslim 1718,Bukhari 2697, Muslim 867, Bukhari Book 007, Number 3159,
PS. I m not forcing you or
any one to leave if you still want to celebrate, you are responsible for
your deeds and i am responsible for mine. I have just conveyed the message. NO
OFFENSE TO ANY ONE PLS. IF any one is not agree or wants me to be agree for celebrating it, i
just request to simply provide me with an authentic ref of "Only Quran and
Hadith" and no useless/endless discussions or the ref from other books of the particular sects.. Thanks in advance.
I am not a scholar, and I doubt most of us who watch and waste our lives away watching dramas and spending time on india-forums are scholars. I do know the difference in beliefs is down to the aqeedah you follow. Im aware the ahle sunnah wal jammah, (sunni muslims) tend to follow this path and the salafi/wahabi/movements have a differences in belief (and dont celebrate this). One of those beliefs relates to celebrating the birth of the Prophet peace be upon him. I also know that theres several hadiiths and examples that dfferentate between a 'good' innovation and bad innovation. A good innovation is one that does not conflict islamic teachings and in fact is a force of good. A bad innovation is anything that goes against the teachings of islam.
However,,,,If you want to discuss aqeedah and the merits of celebrating/not celebrating the milaad I would say discuss it with the people of knowledge...the scholars. I would suggest people like sheikh al-yaqoubi, sheikh Ninowy, and in the indian subcontinent -people such as sheikh amin-ul-hasnaat. These people have spent ther liives dedicated to learning and sharing the message of islam. sheikh al-yaqoubi is also a direct descendent of the Prophet (saw. They are well versed in the hadiith (understandng and implementation). I do not believe in citiing wikipedia as a reference for a discussion about Islam or the beloved prophet saw.
i would say if people love the prophet SAW ...let them celebrate. in mawlid celebrations we talk about the prophet, islam, read the quran, read naats and send durood and salaam. this to me is a beautiful thing.
also debate is useless...because most of the time people are debatiing to please their ego and prove they are ultimately CORRECT and the other person is WRONG. In the time of the Prophet and the ahle-bait, people had differences in opinion. But they talked about things ONLY for the sake of reaching the truth . That cannot be done online, on india-forums. It is just spreadng dividisions. and spreading divisions is spreading fitnah.
personally i think It is best to avoid this topic, because we struggle with the most basic of tenets of islam...modesty/haya in all forms, loving your neighbour, compassion, honesty, equality. half the world starves and the other half is oppressed. we struggle to read namaaz and give zakat, we drink and sell alcochol,. How can we ever be in a position to discuss other aspects of aqeedah when have not yet tackled the basics of what it means to be a muslim.
1st of all i agree what you said that none of us is a scholar. right, but being on india-forus doesn't mean that i can't tell the right or wrong. Alhamdu lilah i have done MA in Islamic Studies and have my own books of Tafaseer ul Quran and Ahdith.
2ndly, 1 wrong act doesn't provide the base of intervention/innovation in religion nor it does allow for doing so. watching shows doesn't allow us to invent in Isalm.
3rdly, i disagree with your point that when we tell here some thing that means to show off or boosting ourselves. when i have joined this forum, i was not use to of telling who am I, even i didn't mention it for a long time to people that i m a Muslim. For the first time i wrote such type of post when some one posted wrong info on Meraj's occasion and refused to edit just thinking that the post will come down from GA. even TM was Muslim but was not having enough info and posted the info found from google. i posted the correct info considering it my duty as a mulism. if i wanted to show off people that i have much knowledge i may be doing it before too but i was hiding it initially as i didn't know what type of people i may find here. and after joining when i was thinking what i m doing here as i can't discuss shows and actors all the time, i found a reason to stay here. i started making islamic posts after research providing the correct islamic info to people regarding islamic occasions with reference of Quran o hadith so i m still here.
4th, i totally agree that wikipedia is not an islamic source to verify, i just said that even Wikipedia is telling that officially people started celebrating this occasion in 12th century. i didn't say that its an islamic source but the books i quoted above, are the islamic books and Albidaya wal nahaya was written by Imam Ibn e Kathir whose tafsir is considered as most authentic tafsir in Islmic world as its the to Tafsir bil-Masaur. Al-Rahiq-ul-Makthtoom got the best award for best seerah writing in all over the world, i have this book in my personal collection too.
5th, for the verbal confirmation, please check the following link if you can check youtube, i have posted the videos last year after searching, the statement of Dr. Israr Ahamed (A Hanfi/Sunni Scholar) and Dr Zaki Naik's statement for this part not being the part of Isalm. (i can't open youtube now but i have posted these videos last year, if you open it you can please check them on this page or if you are in pakistan you can wait for the youtube to be open to verify the statement)
6th, I understand your concern as its hard to
believe or act if some thing clashes with what v believe n it happened with me. i have been celebrating this day with the so much enthusiasm, might be more than you but i have stopped doing so before a few years after my research when i wished one of my foreigner muslim friend and she asked it what is this? we don't celebrate back in home, i was wondering why not than i researched on that and find out the truth. now what i do is that if i find some thing in Quran o sunah i follow, if not than i reject it as part of islam. still i challenge, i some one can show me a hadith from Bukhari or Muslim for celebrating it and can prove that there is no contradiction for the date of birth as 12th Rabi ul Awal, i will start celebrating it again (i m more than 100000 % sure no one can do it)
7th, i still didn't force any one to stop celebrating it, i have just conveyed the message, you wanna celebrate, you are welcome, i just conveyed the message. i also don't like useless and endless discussions, that's y i wrote in advance the same thing in my previous post. i m so much sleepy and less active on forum now a days, i m off to sleep if you or some one else reply again, i may not be able to reply.
replyng. I really respect that yu have
done an MA in Islamic Studies. But the
people who discuss aqeedah in this much detail are the people who have spent
their childhood and most of their adulthood studying the Quran and Sunnah in
detail and are basing their understanding on the fiqh of the 4 imaams.
Im sure you will
know all this,,,but To give rulings in islam you must 1. Learn arabic in the classical
form, it is haraam to draw on 'translations', 2) study kalamallah …because one word in the Quran may be
interpreted in several ways. And even
then we would still not fully grasp the
meaning except those on whom Allah swt has granted that knowledge. 3) You need to understand, and be able to fully
implement, all the criteria relating to reaching a ruling. And then don't forget to reach that ruling,
you also need to have developed a full understanding of hadith.
In the process of
doing all this learning you need to be fulfilling your fard. You mentioned Dr Zakir Naik, with much
respect to the speaker…to my knowledge he does not follow any of the four
imaams of the ahle sunnah wal jamah. So
where is his knowledge derived from, and which scholars has is he sat in the
company of learned from…? What was the chain of knowledge that was transferred
person to person. Basically from where
is he making these rulings?
Look at the
blessed sahaba. There were 124,000
sahaba…but only 150 of the sahaba gave rulings about specific things. Why? Because of the complexity f the Quran
and Hadith. There reverence for the deen
prevented them making rulings with being entirely 100% positive. Bear in mind sahaba, Taabin, and Taba
Taabin were from the first three generations blessed by the prophet SAW. The Imaams were from the Taba Taabin. Bear in mind also, the hadith of the prophet which narrates the
first generations will be the best of
generations. The last generations will
be amongst the worst, we are amongst the last generations. How many people in this worst generation are
in a real position to make rulings. I am
saying this to highlight I full well understand that this generation is not in
a position to interpret and create a new 'school of thought.' We just do not have that knowledge.
innovation. Let me provide you with examples of innovation. The quran was revealed in many parts, in a
completely different order to what it is.
Was it compiled in the book form it is today during the time of Prophet
SAW? No, it was compiled this way after.
Why? Because it made it much easier to learn from and transmit in this
format, in a single book with longest chapters at the beginning.
In text form, was the Quran revealed with the
punctuation in which we see it today (the dhammah, kasrah, fatah)? No. but these were added after to make it easier
to transmit and read, it made the book more accessible. There are many examples like this where
innovation can be a force for good.
There are also many examples where the Prophet SAW observed certain
things,, that were seen as in fact positive and could be used as a force for
good. The Prophet saw was open
minded. The people of the Prophets time
did not NEED to celebrate the mawlid because they were so close to them. Lived
with them, met there companions, lived
Today we are so
far away from the teachings of al- islam and the Prophet saw, we need to
commemorate the day he was born. This is
Allah's SWT most beloved being, the day Allah's most beloved was sent as gift
for us…our lowly selves. This is we why mark
this special day,, how can this day NOT be
SPECIAL?? We cannot love Allah swt if we
do not love his most beloved, and there is nothing to prove that you cannot
show your love by marking the prophets birthday. For the technicalities of the date, again I would
say consult the scholars I have mentioned.
The books of Ibn
Kathir re great but to my knowledge there is nothing in tafseer that tells
people not to celebrate the birth day of the prophet.
Can I also say, in
another post you mentioned saudi arabia as an example of a copuntry that does
not celebrate mawlid. The rulers of
saudi became wahabi when that movement came to power. Thier aqeedah differs very much to the rest of the arab world, apart from
odd couple of shia states. Now the saudi
royals, while they oppressively rule the country with their so called islamic 'shariah'
engage in drinking, gambling and other acts which are blatantly prohibited by
islam. They answer only to america and
israel. How can you use them as an
example. They undermine the role of the
Prophet SAW and keep to themselves a vast amount of wealth. So much wealth that would feed the starving
muslim world,,, if they cared. Anyway Allah swt knows best.
Anyway, as I said
before I don't think its good to post these things on here and spread divisions,
the topic poster was also hurt.. and all she did was show her love for the
Prophet saw.. Also these posts are not
good for dawah purposes. How does it
look if the muslims show disunity.
Private message me and we can discuss this more. I will only respond to