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Debate : Who is Respnsible? (Page 9)

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Posted: 13 January 2013 at 9:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by meghasingh

Now this debate has taken somewhere turn where there is really nothing to discuss...indian culture and western culture.
Now those who think that indian culture respected women in the past, this and that...it's nothing but a huge lie. No offense, but I'll give clearcut examples, and that too of reknowned and highly worshiped characters...
In indian mythology the person who is most perfect is Ram...he is the ideal man and sita ideal woman...a king who didn't had enough trust on his wife and he demanded an agnipariksha for her, then left her alone when a woman needs her partner most, in her pregnancy...
Indra, god of gods, a guy who is making out with every woman he like by changing his form, is the one who is assigned as the ruler of heaven.
In vishnu lakshmi, lakshmi is always sitting and massaging vishnu's legs and feet, while he's lying comfortably.
Such are the ideals of the great Indian Culture...look it's hard to criticize yourself, but that's the way you can change things.

Another point on western culture and short clothes...come on... it's just ignorance, lack of facts, and presumptions. The truth is that we used to wear much shorter clothes than them...imagine a saree without a blouse and petticoat...that's the original saree okay...blouse and petticoat were part of western dresses. Got to some tribal place and then you will see what is the original saree, and then u will see how much exposure is there.

Clap

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Posted: 13 January 2013 at 9:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Ninja.

I blame the Discrimination Between Men & Women. Like they say one learns the basic things at home. Therefore, if a mother or a sister doesn't get proper respect, it obviously creates a bad impact on the kids. And they end up thinking it's not a very big deal to respect women and they can be treated like a object.

People say that the short dresses provoke those bas***ds. But how can one easily forget that those who wear long dresses and all also get raped or eve-teased? In the end, do the people want to mean that only the women are to be blamed for all these? By going that logic, is there no difference between a decent man and a rapist or a eve-teaser if the woman is the only one to be blamed? 3 year old kids also get raped. So, they know how to provoke or seduce? SUCH A JOKE!

Until we give proper respect and value to the women, I don't think such things can be stopped. And the women need to raise their voice and give a damn about the society.
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Posted: 13 January 2013 at 9:04am | IP Logged
Originally posted by meghasingh

Look girls or guys...basic thing is that I won't even think in my dreams that alcohol, short dresses, clothes, late night anything provokes to rape... because I am saying it with my own experiences.
There is definitely something called attraction, desires, hormone things and all, but in my view nothing, nothing in any case can lead to rape or even molestation if the guys do have a proper mentality.
few examples from my personal life: I do love parties, i do wear short clothes, and western dresses, i love to go out at night but if you say that I'm provoking rape...then hello... it would be so much horrible, undesirable and atrocious for me as for a girl wrapped in saree.

and sexual desires and all... if a guy has basic ethics then he can't even think like this... I do know because I know such guys... my friends(boys) and yeah none of us is kinda perfect or ideal kinda person, we all talk openly about everything, a great deal of flirting and everything, and in our huge group there are enough likes and crushes on each other, but I do know that none of them would even think about doing so, although it may be really easy for them.
and moreover it's my experience...my cousin looks after his three friends, drunk for the first time in a party, brings them at my home and we looked after them till morning... all three were in western "provocative", and one of them was my bro's ex... and my cousin was quite intimate with her... he had still that time a crush on her, but obviously if desires are natural then respecting others is also a natural thing in decent people.
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Posted: 13 January 2013 at 9:06am | IP Logged
Originally posted by -Alina.

Originally posted by KaShSuJen

Impotant topic
According to me I think girl gets raped because of there clothing.And today's western culture people would think its actually cool and hot and all those stuff.I live in Australia and 12 year old girls show there tummy where shorts to short and have boyfriends and stuff.I think its because of there clothing because in Australian news this 13 year old got raped by her crush and she was very popular in her school.And I also think that mens get very dirty and they rape.Well it is a very important topic.Thank you for this topic.
-Sana

Nup.. sorry but I don't agree with this.. a girls clothes are NOT the reason of a rape... bcoz if is so.. then men also wear very short dresses.. like jeans with cut.. or shirts... with few first buttons opened... then why they don't get raped? It's mentality

P,S, This is JUST my View!

i too agree with you
they also show many things while wearing low waist jeans

this should evoke the same feeling that boys feel while seeing revealing girls right?

Why doesn't girls have emotions? don't they have sexuality?

and most of the girls who are the victims of rape wore decent dress not revealing ones

ITS THE MENTALITY OF MEN AND BOYS

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Posted: 13 January 2013 at 9:07am | IP Logged
Originally posted by KIARSHI

Originally posted by -Alina.

Originally posted by KaShSuJen

Impotant topic
According to me I think girl gets raped because of there clothing.And today's western culture people would think its actually cool and hot and all those stuff.I live in Australia and 12 year old girls show there tummy where shorts to short and have boyfriends and stuff.I think its because of there clothing because in Australian news this 13 year old got raped by her crush and she was very popular in her school.And I also think that mens get very dirty and they rape.Well it is a very important topic.Thank you for this topic.
-Sana

Nup.. sorry but I don't agree with this.. a girls clothes are NOT the reason of a rape... bcoz if is so.. then men also wear very short dresses.. like jeans with cut.. or shirts... with few first buttons opened... then why they don't get raped? It's mentality

P,S, This is JUST my View!

i too agree with you
they also show many things while wearing low waist jeans

this should evoke the same feeling that boys feel while seeing revealing girls right?

Why doesn't girls have emotions? don't they have sexuality?

and most of the girls who are the victims of rape wore decent dress not revealing ones

ITS THE MENTALITY OF MEN AND BOYS

Yeah... same here.. Thanks.Embarrassed

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...Rapunzel...

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Posted: 13 January 2013 at 9:12am | IP Logged
Originally posted by -Alina.

Originally posted by KIARSHI

Originally posted by -Alina.

Originally posted by KaShSuJen

Impotant topic
According to me I think girl gets raped because of there clothing.And today's western culture people would think its actually cool and hot and all those stuff.I live in Australia and 12 year old girls show there tummy where shorts to short and have boyfriends and stuff.I think its because of there clothing because in Australian news this 13 year old got raped by her crush and she was very popular in her school.And I also think that mens get very dirty and they rape.Well it is a very important topic.Thank you for this topic.
-Sana

Nup.. sorry but I don't agree with this.. a girls clothes are NOT the reason of a rape... bcoz if is so.. then men also wear very short dresses.. like jeans with cut.. or shirts... with few first buttons opened... then why they don't get raped? It's mentality

P,S, This is JUST my View!

i too agree with you
they also show many things while wearing low waist jeans

this should evoke the same feeling that boys feel while seeing revealing girls right?

Why doesn't girls have emotions? don't they have sexuality?

and most of the girls who are the victims of rape wore decent dress not revealing ones

ITS THE MENTALITY OF MEN AND BOYS

Yeah... same here.. Thanks.Embarrassed

Dear it really hurts when women are blamed unnecessarily for those heinous crimes done by bloody *********

even in the case of jyothi diii girls began asking WHAT WAS THE NEED FOR THAT GIRL TO GO OUT AT NIGHT?
why can't they ask why boys are sooo misbehaved that girls can't go out at night??????

WHY ALWAYS GIRLS ARE BLAMED???????????

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..DamonCrazy..beautiful.

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Posted: 13 January 2013 at 9:19am | IP Logged
[/QUOTE]

Dear it really hurts when women are blamed unnecessarily for those heinous crimes done by bloody *********

even in the case of jyothi diii girls began asking WHAT WAS THE NEED FOR THAT GIRL TO GO OUT AT NIGHT?
why can't they ask why boys are sooo misbehaved that girls can't go out at night??????

WHY ALWAYS GIRLS ARE BLAMED???????????
[/QUOTE]

I also feel the same..Cry in fact our (=girls) mentality is also one of the reason.. we believe in what our mother say.. and our mother believes in what she learnt from her mother.. and then we go on.. nothing changes.. no one changes.. always women are the reason for everything.. if a girl and boy do the same mistake.. it's always the mistake of a girl..

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Posted: 13 January 2013 at 9:24am | IP Logged
Originally posted by dude81

so what should be done????? let them enjoy secured peaceful life??????
it is sooo easy to preach that the culprits should not be tortured... humanity... blah blah!!!
i just wish... once... for once... people try and empathetically view the girl and her family...
try and step in her shoes, her mom's shoes... her father-brothers shoes... god-forbid she could hav been you, or your sis... even then u would have said kepunishing the culprits is barbaric????
today you say candle marches are not cunstructive enough... well then what is?????
i agree that rape is an act of domination... so is ragging (although its miniscule before rape)... but dont we try to protect it????
and what police are you defending???? was the police understaffed when it wqas lathi charging the protesters?????
if they are underpaid... then should we add to their salaries????? understaffed???? if goverment does not wish to recruit police... then what should youth do???? forcefully recruit themselves???? and the police that is there... the laws for them were made in 1861... have not been revised so far... 65 yrs after independance... police reforms yet to see the light of the day!!!!
you find middle class self-righteous?????? let me enlighten you!
do you have any idea about the corruption in this country... so so so many scams...
forget all scams... just consider the value of cwg+2g. you know... if this amount instead of being skimmed off to swiss banks was distributed among indians...EACH INDIAN WOULD HAVE GOT 5 LAKH RS...  whole poverty of india... gone!!! it is mind boggling!!!!
when the government has to recruit police, doctors, teachers etc... open colleges... then government says we dont have enough money but does not bat an eyelid while giving corores of rs to industrialists as tax redumptions?????
which people attend the meetings of politicians... u think that most of middle class does it??? have u seen the rallies???? do i need to tell u what is the crowd there?????
my sociology teacher was once saying that in india, nothing is impossible! if government wants... within days it can remove poverty, caste system... corruption ... illitracy etc..!!!! b ut govt does not do so because they know that educated masses will first and foremost challange them only!
this is so true!
and in the end... the middle class you are accusing... is the sole hope of this country...
the candle marches enforce the solidarity... proove that indians can still get togather and shun selfishness of their jobs...
if thats not constructive for you... i dont see what is constructive then?????
and if u are saying "oh... its too little to late..." then all i can say is little steps make big leaps...
indian goverment would have shamelessly pardoned the'juvenile' who ripped out intestines with his bare hands...
but now they are talking of changing the law...
it takes efforts to come out on streets  and face the lathis of police my freind!!!!!
you cant take a blanket and cover the whole middle class of india...
 
I'm not disrecrediting the Indian middle class..I read newspapers...I know that if it wasn't for the protesters then forget Delhi Gangrape, Jessica Lal, many other cases would have gone unnoticed...I think it was very brave of the people to go against the police and face lathi charge, water cannon, etc...
 
But all said and done, how long can you be angry? How long can you bay for revenge? Is revenge the sole motive? Fine, we tortured the culprits, then what? Once they're dead, what are you gonna do? Return back to your offices and pat yourself on the back thinking 'Yay, they got tortured, justice is served?'
 
By the way, I didn't discover the phenonmenon of rape with Delhi Gangrape.I've been reading about it in newspapers for a long time. When I first became mature enough to understand what it was my reaction was the same: 'Rapists are animals. They deserve to be hanged, tortured, etc.' Im a feminist, and the idea of a man raping a woman enraged me. But this is just a knee-jerk reaction. If you research the phenonmenon, you will realize that it goes way beyond just physical assault, it's deeply ingrained in all of us. Will you give everybody death penalty?
 
What I'm trying to say here is that everybody is blaming each other. Everybody is looking for a culprit, or some kind of payback. I think it's more important to focus on reforms. You can think of n number of bloodthirsty punishments, but is that going to stop crime? What we need is results, not revenge.
 
A lot of the people who are speaking out against the issue are hypocrites. If you go and personally interview the people who are protesting, you will find serious differences. A lot of the people who claim to be 'progressive' are actually people who do crimes in their own houses. Holding a candle doesn't make you a saint.
 
But on the other hand, there are those people who have put petitions, who have written articles, who have asked the government to introduce sex education, who have started NGO's and self-defence camps, who have started programmes for reformed harassers to spread awareness-this is what I call action. A lot of the people are just screaming 'Death penalty, death penalty' like it solves everything.
 
It's not just a question of humanity. Even practically speaking, death penalty NEVER works. We have death for murder-has it stopped happening? Even in America, where they have lethal injection, a 16 year old girl was raped and dragged from one party to another, and not a single person came forward to help.
 
And there's no denying that the middle class is apathetic most of the time. The rape victim was a middle-class educated professional, that's why people were so enraged. What about Dalits and sex workers. You will find around one-fourth of  the people who were so 'enraged' will suddenly shut their mouths.
 
I'm not absolving government of the blame either. But everybody knows our government is corrupt. It's nothing new.
 
Crime doesn't belong to a particular class bracket. It is a result of widespread social malaises such as patriarchy. All I'm trying to say here is that baying for blood or trying to 'Find out who's responsible' doesn't solve the problem. Engaging in active reform does. At the end of the day, we have to return to the 'selfishness' of our jobs. The solution lies finding a way to fulfill our social duties regardless of other constraints.
 
 


Edited by IndigoBlues - 13 January 2013 at 9:23am

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