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Debate : Who is Respnsible? (Page 13)

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Tohru

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Tohru

Joined: 23 December 2012

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Posted: 14 January 2013 at 2:33pm | IP Logged
 Provocative Act?  Pop Culture? or the Mentality? all blame game for me

i agree these things do provoke but they didn't give men a lisence to habendum  law & justice & rape womens.provocative act by modern women or pop culture cause rape it is a statement of sick mind there are cases of female child rape,womens in villages are raped too who dosen't belong to any pop culture nor done any provocative act.why we womens not hear any such statement from a group of girls '' the modern provocative act of the modern boy cause rape''.

What exactly is the root cause according to you?

poor very very poor law & security is the main reason to let such incidents happen.goverment should wakeup & take insiatives to stop such shameful acts.there should be only death panelty for rapist.if the rape is done in public places the rapiest should be hang to death in public..
public ignorence specialy womens ignorence.every women face it we face it every day abusive acts, lewd comments,lustful eyes. first we get scared of it then later we start ingnoring them & finaly we become use of it.why??? even in public places when some nasty comments were passed most of girls ignore & say don't want to creat a scene &public just stand like dummies to watch & say we can't risk our life. why not to stop it on the first place.how many of us acted in such situation to defend our respect.even people are afraid to make a poloice call in these situations.our silence give them courage & today we are being targeted by these sick minds. i wish a law too pass against such dummies who just stand & watch.as a human we should know our responsibility & act.

since the day the world is created evil & good is present. so there is no way to stop rape permanetaly but we can discuss the things which will decrease the cases & such incidents to happen.

Death panelty for rapist

after this case a example should be set to make these sick mind think 1000 time before attempt rape.only death panelty for rapist.


No alcohol

why only drugs are banned alcohol should be also banned.  drunkers should not be allowed on public places like roads,busstand ,parks,cinemas they even shouldn't allowed to travel or take a taxi or auto.any person drunk should not be allowed to outdoors. it dosen't matter he/she is enough consious or not.if bunch of drunkers are found on any place immediate call should be make to police to catch them before they cause any trouble.
i don't understand the liquid poison which snach your senses of humanity & give you dieases like cancer is allowed it should be banned.

every girl should learn self defence

we are working whith shoulder to shoulder with the mens in any field we are not behind them but a fact we can't deny mens are physicaly stronger then womens. i request please every girls should learn self defence. women self defence should be teached to girls in school level as a subject. if you are a mother,father,brother or a elder sister please make sure your daughters your sisters learn self defence even if your are a house wife or over 30 its never too late to learn.if you can afford self defence classes fees well enough but if you can't you can learn it through internet.it gives you self confidence it make you physicaly capable to deal with hard situations.i my self is a green belt & Krav Maga trained by my brother.

respect women dignity

Every culture was influenced.thats how it evolved.but yes transition does appear frustrating..as some take the worst out of both.
as a women we know how to carry our selves.we know our culture & traditions we follow them & respect them. so as a women respect your dignity.


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samin6

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samin6

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Posted: 14 January 2013 at 5:59pm | IP Logged
You know when a girl is raped many things leave her forever. However that is not because of the girl. When some one steals it is because he is a theif not because people have a lot of money. When some one kills it is because he is a murderer and does not value life not because the other person has done wrong. When a students fails his exams it is because he did not study. When a person passes his exam it is because they studied for that. So when someone rapes it is because he wanted to do it and he has no value for the laws set by society. He is a criminal and why someone commits a crime is very simple- because he had a motive and because he simply wanted to. To prevent that women simply have to stop blaming themselves. This things happen and you have to be patient. Remember one out of two women in India are raped every single day by their husbands. It is because those husbands want to and have the opportunity. Think at least you are lucky that you have the opportunity to have endured only once and will not have to face him ever again if you want to. May Allah give them patience.
 

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meghasingh

-zozo-

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-zozo-

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Posted: 14 January 2013 at 6:49pm | IP Logged
no sensible person would ask for them to be raped so why would one provoke the other to rape them
whether it be a girl or a boy 
so the fact that people claim he/she asked for or provoked it is highly illogical 
the terms "she asked me to have SEX with her" is way different from "she asked me to RAPE her"
and i think any educated person would know the difference 
so i dont understand what reason people have to proclaim that the person RAPED and i would like to emphasize that word, asked for it or provoked it 
ive heard this term a lot in such cases which is why im setting straight my opinion on it.

at the end of the day it all comes down to one's mentality, morals, knowledge and ethnicity
also i would like to point out that media and the environment a person is raised in play a factor in the knowledge aspect 


~zozo

 



Edited by -zozo- - 14 January 2013 at 6:47pm

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dude81meghasingh

Perfangel5655

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Perfangel5655

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Posted: 14 January 2013 at 8:25pm | IP Logged
The lack of respect for women. It has little to do with sex in the media. Media might show you how sex is a great thing but it doesn't tell you to behave like an animal. If the men wanted sex they can hire cheap prostitutes or seek out other ways. Although Bollywood movies seem to show otherwise men don't rape because they are turned on and just want to have sex. They rape women because they have no respect towards women. If we want to stop rape then we need to stop blaming the media or how girls are dressed and focus on the men this society breeds. 

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wind453

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wind453

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Posted: 15 January 2013 at 3:13am | IP Logged
I would blame the mentality of the society.For god sake stop blaming girls for everything.
To those who say girls dressing is the reasons for rape or the girl herself invites rape i would like to know does a 2 month kid or 3 year old kid who gets raped  provocates or invites some1 to rape her. Rape has nothing to do with the way the girl dresses.
Blaming sum1 dressing is nothing but just bullshit.
Why ask the girl to change her dressing rather than teaching the guys to respect women??

PS- Stop blaming girls for every other thing and Start Respecting her

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nikita_88

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nikita_88

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Posted: 15 January 2013 at 3:44am | IP Logged
In my opinion there are a lot of factors involved. I live in the UK and Rape is a big issue here as well, the figures in the UK aren't that great either, but there is such big campaigns here, like make sure she says Yes (it was a few years ago)... And recently there is an add to promote the help lines to get victims the help they need 

I think the first is mind set but its not about respecting woman but the fact that girls and boys are treated so differently. I mean when a girl turns 12 from then her mother is like you need to learn how to cook, clean, iron etc... And I am like no Indian mother goes to her son to learn how to do any of this. I mean what guy here on IF can say their mother took them into the kitchen and taught them how to make roti's - or any sort of food? 
Just cause he is a boy he doesn't have to do all this - I mean I know for a fact, when I have to I will be able to do all these things and even if my roti's aren't round I will survive but my mum is like you need to learn... Confused
Why is it that the daughter is told to go into the kitchen my a mother but never a son? Shouldn't he be self-sufficient as well? 
And if a boy does do all of this why does he get called a chumma? or Mummy's boy? 
The thing is it works both ways - boys have pressures girls have pressures, why is there no middle ground? Why are we so stuck upon Gender Roles from the 19th Century? I mean now woman go to work, run a household, raise their kids and have time for a social life, so why can society not see that? 

Next factor clothing! What is decent clothing? I mean if girls drool over guys who are topless, guys do the same over girls! I am sorry but every guy has seen a Playboy or FHM magazine, and I think trying to avoid the issue and hide the issue makes it a bigger issue... Like making sex a taboo so everything is done secretly, making it more open in society might not be the worse thing ever, I am sorry but India's 1 billion population didn't come from a stork! 

And blaming films and songs isn't the right way to go about it, the fact is the movies make this money because it is the only acceptable to bring the topic into society and I am sorry to say this but sex sells and there is nothing wrong with that... there is enough academic literate about attraction both genders do it... And also I am sorry but there is the internet and any smart 12 year old kid can access po*n. 

But there is a fine line between a compliment and harassment. 
I mean a girl can walk down the street and have a car horn hoot at you and drive on by, its happened to me and I don't mind it usually makes me smile as I walk on down cause its a nice compliment, but then a step to far is if they stop and try and talk to you, cause at that point you are like leave me alone and panic. 
And that is it if a girl dresses nicely and you compliment her fine but when she starts getting uncomfortable then it becomes awkward and worse esp in a club where you have to try and get away, I mean always helpful to have a guy friend there to be like his my boyfriend but it unnerves you... (From personal experience this happened to me and my friends went out for a night, met with friends friends etc... and it was all fine till the end of the night cause one of the guys really liked my friend and we kind of managed to get out of the club and get a taxi back home without that guy realising, but what happened was someone else gave him our road name and my friends phone number, lucky when we got back my friend went to bed and feel asleep (switched her phone off) and I got really hungry so me and my other flatmate decide to go and see if the chip guy was still open at around 3.30 in the morning, but walking down our street that guy was there in his car at the top of our street, me and my friend geniuenly had to hide ourselves and we walked the long way home just incase he decide to follow us to find out where we lived.)

And I know guys feel the same awkwardness when they are sometimes hit on by girls and if the girl gets too clingly they do want to get a way guys don't like it the same way girls don't like it, 
But it is projected in two different ways, if the attraction is mutual or they hook up... Guys become a hero, girls become a s**t?!?!? Confused

Though that is one other thing why is that girls have to be careful? Why can't it be safe for them to be out at night? Why do they have to be back home at a certain time but a boy can be out as late as he wants and comes back when he wants? Why should girls have to feel the need to learn to protect themselves when they live in an equal democratic society? 

But I think the biggest disappointment in this whole rape crisis is, the reaction of religious leaders, to politicians to some women. They all blamed the victim... She should not have been out, she shouldn't have worn such clothes, she shouldn't have gotten on that bus, I mean just cause she is an everyday person it doesn't matter, I mean if it was a politician's daughter or someone with some influence do you think the reaction would have been the same? 
And the whole aftermath - I mean people just continued walking on in the streets and left the victim there for two hours, I am sorry but with India where is the need to help a stranger, I mean most of the time we all walk on and past incidents but I know for once when someone truly needs help I will always step up, even if it is just helping someone to the bus stop with all their shopping bags. 

Society needs to re-evaluate its ideals, because Gender Roles aren't the same now days. Its time to move forward with the times! 



Edited by nikita_88 - 15 January 2013 at 7:47am

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Riya.S.007

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Riya.S.007

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Posted: 15 January 2013 at 4:13am | IP Logged
i came from a small city, where people read these things, comment on it, and throw the paper away.my city was a quite one, hardly heard any crime activity here.but suddenly, mostly after delhi incident, it all changed. people are more talking and we can hear some news about gangrape and kidnapping.i could'nt believe when i heard abt gang rape in my small town.the most horrible part is the girl was from my college, a 1st yr student.i am a 1st yr studnt too, may be i know that girl.my mom must be thinking that she will drop me to college, like our parents used to do when we were children.may be she will send me with a group of girl, rather than letting me go alone, will call me after reaching college, and so on and so forth.

why, its always agirl , hv to face the worst of all in this society???why cant it be safe for the girls like boys? why, if  a boy comes home at late night, his mom - dad wont say anything, mostly bcoz they dnt hv to think abt his safety.why cant this country be safe for girls too, irrespective of the time and place???? and the most imp part is, if its nt now, then when??? when it will be safe???

already our country is on a race for female foeticide, child labour, dowry, sexual harrassment, taunting in streets, and many crime, mostly related to child and woman, mainly due to we know from our culture that girls are always less weak than boys.i agree, may be we are nt powerful physically, bt we are also nt their slaves that they will use and abuse us like this.rape, change it all.its easy to say, that after rape, after if she get justice, she will lead a normal life.but as a girl i think, and i know, she cant.she will still fear to go outside, fear to look at a man, fear to trust,. her whole life will be based on fear.that horrible incident wont erase from her memory.and the worst part is, the talks of her surroundings people.

when i roamed around on internet during delhi incident, i came across many sympathetic tweets, fb page, blogs.bt always one questions come in my mind, we all support that girl.but what if we know that girl is none other than our neighbour's daughter? what will we do? initially, we all support them, console them.bt after some days, we will start to find the reason she get raped. if she was outside for late hours? if she was characterless and surrendered herself? if she was a prostitute and doing this coz she hv nt received exact money? does nt it is the worst of this all???the thinking that she was raped, mey be there was some reason.

may be i am getting of topic, the topic was why is rape happening? i think rape happens, first of all, moral degradation, thn bcoz our country's law is nt powerful.moral degradation is nt only of those scamheads who commited that, of the police offiicers and the soceity too who blame the girl instead of those who responsible. rape, harassment, only can be stopped, if our govt. make strong law, and make some examples that rape or harassmnts wont be tolerate.. and secondly, we hv to change our mentality.nt to show our support on social network, we hv to show support to the housemaid who always get bashed in her workplace, or our colleague, who get harassed by her boss.support, fight only can stop this crimes.also, we hv to teach our youngers, boys, girls, to respect person, irrespective of gender, as a man.and if our elders also wrong, change their attitude too.help the girl to whom some roadside romeo is taunting.help support and fight it together. it will surely change it all.

i am really ashamed that i am and indian, and scared to be a girl. i hv promised myself , that i wont tolerate any abuse to me, or to any other girl. i will surely help any girl in problem, if any other person is nt helping her. will fight and die rather than sit and thinking what our country have become.

and to guys who thnk girls as their father's property to abuse

and if anygirl walk around wearing only a bikini, so what?? the guys got some license to rape her?  who give them that? change ur attitude, its nt abt the cloth, its ur dirty mentality. and how dare u thnk of raping a girl and destroy her life? if u hv no gd work to do, commit suicide.better nt mess with any girl outside, who knows, the nxt victim will be ur sis/gf/ sil ??? dnt do it urself, dnt let others do it too.

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IndigoBlues

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IndigoBlues

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Posted: 15 January 2013 at 6:05am | IP Logged
Originally posted by dude81

some reaction is better than no reaction... and its not about killing hanging these culprits... its the casual treatment of such cases by the officials. if u hav read about this particular case... u must hav read how much planning was done by the rapists... how police was not suspicious of the bus which kept on taking u-turns...
after the incident... repeatedly people remarking.."oh its nothing... hota rehta hai...!!!" this attitude needs to be changed... the authorities need to be shaken up and told "hota tab tak rahe ga jab tak hone de ge..."
frankly... this case will frizzle out..we know... so does every social movement...
be it renaissance or anti-apartheid... so what? dont start anything coz it'll end???? i disagree with this.
 
 
as i have mentioned... its not about death panelty... if u think it is... then u r mistaken!
the protests are against the laxity... the casual approach... this is no ajmal kasab whose hanging is being demanded... people out there want serious action... change of law... stricter action...
now here u are saying that strict law wont change anything... then lets not have strict laws...
what purpose will that solve???
 
 
result are needed... but how to get them? and whats wrong in blaming if some one is actually wrong? should we get hermits from himalyas to blame and point out mistakes?
if some theif defends himself that.."everyone is a theif..." is this a valid defence????
those rapists were not scared that they'll be caught and punished... so criminals should not fear the laws???? is that going to stop the crime?
 
 
as i said... the defense that everyone is a criminal is no defense...
frankly this idea projected by indian govt is sick...
you ask them about corruption..."everyone is corrupt.."... u ask about communalism... "everyone is communal.."... about gender discrimination..."everyone does it..."
why????? so as per this logic... a supreme court judge trying on a rapist in court has no right to judge him... coz he himself might be a chauvenist... what a lame view!!!!!
and the protestsin my city... i saw majority females... girl students... housewives...
dont mind... but ur views remind me of the sick remark of president's son about these protests...
holding a candle makes no one saint... but does not automatically make u a hypocrit either!
 
 
yeah... such people are there... working for gender equality... so only this is the right way... rest everything wrong????
i dont know about supporting death panelty... but let me tell u...
harsh punishments and strict laws serve two funtions... "repressive" and "restitutive"...
repressive for potential criminals...
and restitutive for the enraged masses.. (its sociology, i am not making up these things)
strict action and increased vigilence is not a tonic which shall produce immidiate measurable results...
i beleive that the rapists should have shivers down their spine about what can happen before they think of doing such crime again... i dont think i dont have a right to demand this from my country...
 
 
 
as i have remarked... u are taking a very narrow viewpoint...
its not about death for thses criminals... its about increased sensitivity and vigilence by the government and police so that india becomes safer for women...
 
.
now... this is such a lame view... its not even worth defense... i am actually sad that u wrote it..
u mean to say that had the girl been an uneducated dalit there would have been no protests...
why to drag in an unrelated topic? what about dalits and what about sex workers? u think that dalits dont protest??? yeah there are dalit problems... so what? till that is resolved everyone should keep mum and dare not speak about any other wrong?????
 
 
who says that crime belongs to a particular social bracket...????
and what active reforms are u talking about?
frankly people need to shun the thinking"my way or highway"...
what i think is right... what i think is correct way of doing things... THAT IS THE ONLY CORRECT WAY... rest everyrthing is useless and wont serve any purpose...!!!!
u see any reform... any change... there are a number of people doing things differently and contributing in their own way...
if i say that i am protesting on road and the person filing PIL in court is a fool... coz that wont change anything... then i am wrong! and this is how u r wrong...
our social duties also demand us to show solidarity for a just cause...
already we people tolerate just too much... its high time one puts the foot down!
 
 
 
 
You obviously have not read my previous posts on this topic LOL Firstly, please don't compare me to Mr. Mukherjee. I never said anything about the sex or the appearance of the protesters.
Secondly, I am only against death penalty because of the futility of it and because experts have said that it will lead to killing of rape victims. I advocated at least 25 years in prison and chemical castration in my earlier posts.
The reason why I talked about Dalits and sex workers is because we-the unbiased people who can debate on this topic-constitute only 10-15% of the country. The vast majority of the country is prejudiced. I'm not suggesting that we should keep quiet till this matter is resolved. I'm just saying, solidarity should be extended to all women, not just the ones who we can identify with.
I agree with you that harsh laws will repress the citizens into behaving responsibly. But as a woman, I find it frankly insulting that a man will not rape me just out of 'fear he will be castrated' and not because he genuinely respects me. Yes, I'll be grateful for being alive-now don't accuse of me of wanting to an idealistic society more than wanting to not be rapedLOLHarsh laws should be introduced, but there should be education alongside because 'prevention is better than cure'.
Also you said that 'this case will fizzle out'...once again I agree..The government is paying attention to this case only because of widespread public outrage..but what about the victims in Punjab...tribal girls in hostels...Will we have to hold candle marches at India gate the rest of our life each time we want the government to get our attention?
At the end of the day we have to realize that the government will not do anything...the laws you are talking about will take time to come into place..and look at the way the government frames laws! They call molestation 'eve-teasing'..they talk about rape as 'infringing modesty of woman'..once again the whole concept of a woman's honour and modesty being associated with her body comes into place...as if rape victims have no dignity. Look at the way people talk: Her life is destroyed, she is zinda laash, etc, etc.
Filing a PIL, harsh punishments-there is NOTHING wrong with it. These are all good in their own way. But more than legal recourse, we should think about social recourse.
Because for legal recourse we have to fold our hands and prostrate before judges or we have to shout angry slogans at politicians. Once again NOTHING wrong with protesting-but people lose energy too quickly. Many people don't have the courage to end what they started.
But social recourse? It can be done by the smallest of things. Next time you are telling somebody to be strong, don't tell them to be 'man'and if you think they're weak, don't say 'you're being a girl'. If somebody makes fun of a boy for crying, defend him. Don't call the girls in your class who wear skirts and have boyfriends 's**ts' and 'bimbos'.
 
I am against the casual attitude of police. But where does it come from? Think to yourself. Mindset of society! Policemen are not aliens from Mars! They are brought up in India, so obviously they will talk the way Indians talk! You tie rapists to a pole and throw stones at them. It will instil fear into people-definitely. But will it stop them from secretly sympathizing with the rapist?
 
Imagine a situation where the police are given strict guidelines to treat all rape victims with sympathy and to arrest all offenders. Harshest punishments are handed down by the courts. No appeals, no bail. WOW-perfect right? But then imagine the situation when the rape victim goes home, feeling happy because the court and the police were so 'fair' and 'strict'. At home, the rapist's family is busy spreading rumors about 'How that woman of loose morals killed my son'. Neighbours give her suspicious looks. No boy wants to marry her. Remember: This might not happen in Delhi and Mumbai, but definitely in the villages and other places.
 
What's the use of harsh punishments, if people's mentality doesn't change? That is exactly what I've been trying to say so far. You think I am against protests and speaking up. If I was against speaking up, why the hell would I be posting anything on this thread?
Everybody is NOT a criminal-fine, sorry if you felt my tone was accusatory. I didn't mean to offend you. But you seem to be a sociology student. So you should know about the evils of this anti-women culture and society. What I'm trying to say is that at the end of the day, whether you finally have death penalty, or you torture the rapists, or whatever-the struggle should NOT end there. It's just the beginning..

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