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R.I.P our martyrs (Page 28)

krystal_watz IF-Sizzlerz
krystal_watz
krystal_watz

Joined: 10 August 2009
Posts: 10903

Posted: 11 January 2013 at 4:03am | IP Logged
Originally posted by TheBoss

Dude,
War is not the only thing that made the US what they are; their technology, their economy, their welfare, their education, abolishment of slavery, discrimination, addressing health issues, and a wide plethora of other things is what made the US what it is.

I love living my American dream and Im proud of it, until India steps up and addresses the pressing issues at hand instead of fighting over some stupid piece of land and sending people to death there is a whole lot that needs to be done.

You're appallingly ignorant and uneducated. Go and spend some time studying the history of the Kashmir Conflict. India has a legitimate and historical claim over the land; it isn't a "stupid war over a stupid piece of land". It has a very complex bearing on the question of Indian sovereignty and National respect. And honey, there's no bogeyman----I expect you to be educated about the TWO times India was attacked over Kashmir by Pakistan, AND the unnamed millions of civilians that have been murdered in Kashmir and elsewhere in India by cross-border infiltrators since time immemorial. These are flesh-and-blood realties, not some conspiracy theory or "bogeyman" with no base in reality that you wax ignorant about. And did you say that what the soldiers do doesn't touch our lives in any way? Are you serious?

This ain't the United States where you can bring up the "bogeyman factor" in a Debate, this is INDIA, with a very different history and political circumstance than the US and its wars. India is facing a proxy war with its neighbouring state which has nurtured fanatical religious elements that have killed more than a billion Indians since 1950. That isn't a bogeyman, that's a real issue we face everyday; unlike the US which has only been the aggressor toward States that refused to pander to its economic interests. How can you wave the "bogeyman" here? You need to come out from your constricted, cocooned world-view---US ain't the WHOLE WORLD.

Tip: Next time you come over to debate on something, make sure you KNOW what you're going on about.



Edited by krystal_watz - 11 January 2013 at 4:36am

The following 7 member(s) liked the above post:

souldancerLovesLowCulturesharpshooterzorrroguess_wh0ANNMT.ShivuNozzie

chucknorris IF-Dazzler
chucknorris
chucknorris

Joined: 19 October 2011
Posts: 3105

Posted: 11 January 2013 at 8:37am | IP Logged
Originally posted by sharpshooter

Originally posted by silverbug

Originally posted by sharpshooter

I'm afraid silverbug that the BJP Government wasn't any better..remember Atal Behari Vajpayee started the bus diplomacy and Kargil happened immediately after that...maybe the only hope we have is someone like Modi...the rest of BJP seems equally bad.


My point is - Yes BJP is bad but you rather have Congress in power ? How has that worked out for us so far ? Let's try something different then.

Bus diplomacy is useless I agree, lets stop beating around the bush.

Atal was in his 70s when he became the leader, that's another problem. We only put those in power that are senile. But Atal was still more of a leader than Manmohan is, that's for sure.

I can't really back Modi, I have reservations about his role in Gujurat riolts. I have heard accounts from Gujuratis themselves which makes me uncomfortable.

India doesn't have a Hindu/Muslim problem. It has a class problem. It has to do with far too few having much too much and way too many having much too little. The ones who have little are turning into depraved monsters like Naxalites and terrorists across the country. Sometimes I find it hard to blame them, with the way things are why do we expect a different outcome ?



But wasn't Rajiv Gandhi the Prime Minister when he and the Congress encouraged anti-Sikh riots? I think no leader in modern India has the ability to turn this around like Modi does..despite all the negative publicity that he receives for the Gujarat riots, he has manged to tremendously improve infrastructure in the State...Gujarat has more or less become a success story..

Yes, what Rajiv and his Mother did to Sikhs was wrong but does that justify Narendra Modi's role in Gujurat ? I meet some Gujuratis over here in states who often tell me with pride what rioters did and how Modi gave them full liberty. I usually just nod my head and go away because it disgusts me. I'm a Hindu myself but I've been in situations where I was cornered and attacked in India because of my ethnicity. It's not a good feeling when you are in the minority and cornered like that. Try stepping into their shoes and you will see why. As far as Gujarat becoming a success story, a lot of economists are claiming that its a farce. It's well behind states like Punjab, Haryana, Maharashtra in many aspects.

The opinions that some of the Hindu right wingers have scares me to be honest. It has scares as much as the right wing Muslims and pseudo secular Congressis. You have school drop outs like Baba Ramdev lecturing people about Homosexuality, Economics and unfounded claims like Yoga cures AIDS. They might be nationalists but so was Hitler. 

Trust me, I'm no pseudo secular congressi bollywood bulls*itter but I'm not a right wing nutcase Hindutvadi either. I don't want any part of this left wing / right wing and Hindu / secular debate. I just want rational, educated people to rule the country. 





Edited by silverbug - 11 January 2013 at 8:55am

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zorrroShivuNozzieFair-n-luvly

chucknorris IF-Dazzler
chucknorris
chucknorris

Joined: 19 October 2011
Posts: 3105

Posted: 11 January 2013 at 8:51am | IP Logged
Originally posted by krystal_watz

Originally posted by TheBoss

Dude,
War is not the only thing that made the US what they are; their technology, their economy, their welfare, their education, abolishment of slavery, discrimination, addressing health issues, and a wide plethora of other things is what made the US what it is.

I love living my American dream and Im proud of it, until India steps up and addresses the pressing issues at hand instead of fighting over some stupid piece of land and sending people to death there is a whole lot that needs to be done.

You're appallingly ignorant and uneducated. Go and spend some time studying the history of the Kashmir Conflict. India has a legitimate and historical claim over the land; it isn't a "stupid war over a stupid piece of land". It has a very complex bearing on the question of Indian sovereignty and National respect. And honey, there's no bogeyman----I expect you to be educated about the TWO times India was attacked over Kashmir by Pakistan, AND the unnamed millions of civilians that have been murdered in Kashmir and elsewhere in India by cross-border infiltrators since time immemorial. These are flesh-and-blood realties, not some conspiracy theory or "bogeyman" with no base in reality that you wax ignorant about. And did you say that what the soldiers do doesn't touch our lives in any way? Are you serious?

This ain't the United States where you can bring up the "bogeyman factor" in a Debate, this is INDIA, with a very different history and political circumstance than the US and its wars. India is facing a proxy war with its neighbouring state which has nurtured fanatical religious elements that have killed more than a billion Indians since 1950. That isn't a bogeyman, that's a real issue we face everyday; unlike the US which has only been the aggressor toward States that refused to pander to its economic interests. How can you wave the "bogeyman" here? You need to come out from your constricted, cocooned world-view---US ain't the WHOLE WORLD.

Tip: Next time you come over to debate on something, make sure you KNOW what you're going on about.


Some people are gonna keep seeing the world through their rose tinted glasses until they find themselves amidst another 26/11.  Some wouldn't even care then, they will wait until something is knocking right at their door. Politicians don't care because they live in gated communities with armed guards, even though they have denied the right to self defense to other indians.

People want to talk  about America but this country was actually founded on guns and wars. America became prosperous because of wars, colonization, resources (stolen from natives btw) and slavery (free labor).  It provided a solid foundation to build upon. It was only with this new founded prosperity, that those progressive ideals like education, welfare, abolishment of slavery etc came about. It's even arguable that this was done on humanitarian grounds, because a lot of corporations lobbied for women and black rights as they needed access to bigger labor force.  The original constitution allocated no rights for women and considered blacks to be 3/5 of a human. Take that prosperity away and you will see America becoming like Greece where there is a white nationalist party (Golden Dawn) emerging and gaining popular support  after the economic collapse, that wants to kill and deport all non greeks and invade Turkey to retake constantinople. You don't actually have to wait that long, look at America's debt clock and you will see what's coming in the future. In case you didn't notice you have already lost a lot of your liberties after 911 and 2008 economic depression.



Edited by silverbug - 11 January 2013 at 9:01am

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

souldancerzorrro

krystal_watz IF-Sizzlerz
krystal_watz
krystal_watz

Joined: 10 August 2009
Posts: 10903

Posted: 11 January 2013 at 9:05am | IP Logged
^^I'm not an American.
sharpshooter Senior Member
sharpshooter
sharpshooter

Joined: 06 October 2005
Posts: 319

Posted: 11 January 2013 at 9:13am | IP Logged
Originally posted by silverbug

Originally posted by sharpshooter

Originally posted by silverbug

Originally posted by sharpshooter

I'm afraid silverbug that the BJP Government wasn't any better..remember Atal Behari Vajpayee started the bus diplomacy and Kargil happened immediately after that...maybe the only hope we have is someone like Modi...the rest of BJP seems equally bad.


My point is - Yes BJP is bad but you rather have Congress in power ? How has that worked out for us so far ? Let's try something different then.

Bus diplomacy is useless I agree, lets stop beating around the bush.

Atal was in his 70s when he became the leader, that's another problem. We only put those in power that are senile. But Atal was still more of a leader than Manmohan is, that's for sure.

I can't really back Modi, I have reservations about his role in Gujurat riolts. I have heard accounts from Gujuratis themselves which makes me uncomfortable.

India doesn't have a Hindu/Muslim problem. It has a class problem. It has to do with far too few having much too much and way too many having much too little. The ones who have little are turning into depraved monsters like Naxalites and terrorists across the country. Sometimes I find it hard to blame them, with the way things are why do we expect a different outcome ?



But wasn't Rajiv Gandhi the Prime Minister when he and the Congress encouraged anti-Sikh riots? I think no leader in modern India has the ability to turn this around like Modi does..despite all the negative publicity that he receives for the Gujarat riots, he has manged to tremendously improve infrastructure in the State...Gujarat has more or less become a success story..


Yes, what Rajiv and his Mother did to Sikhs was wrong but does that justify Narendra Modi's role in Gujurat ? I meet some Gujuratis over here in states who often tell me with pride what rioters did and how Modi gave them full liberty. I usually just nod my head and go away because it disgusts me. I'm a Hindu myself but I've been in situations where I wascorneredand attacked in India because of myethnicity. It's not a good feeling when you are in the minority and cornered like that. Try stepping into their shoes and you will see why. As far as Gujarat becoming a success story, a lot of economists are claiming that its a farce. It's well behind states like Punjab, Haryana, Maharashtra in many aspects.

The opinions that some of the Hindu right wingers have scares me to be honest. It has scares as much as the right wing Muslims and pseudo secular Congressis. You have school drop outs like Baba Ramdev lecturing people about Homosexuality, Economics andunfoundedclaims like Yoga cures AIDS. They might be nationalists but so was Hitler.

Trust me, I'm no pseudo secular congressi bollywood bulls*itter but I'm not a right wing nutcase Hindutvadi either. I don't want any part of this left wing / right wing and Hindu / secular debate. I just want rational, educated people to rule the country.






By that account, shouldn't the Congress be held responsible for the 93 Mumbai riots? If I'm not wrong, it was the Congress government who was in power in Maharashtra at that time... I find gross double standards when people judge Modi. And believe me, I have been a liberal all my life, sometimes even denying my Hindu roots. But looking at what the Congress has been doing, I am inclined to shift my loyalties towards the right wing of the political spectrum. And if Gujarat's success story was a farce,
1) The current vibrant Gujarat summit would not have been a hit. At the moment, representatives from over a 100 countries have converged in Gujarat for what is supposed to be a grand business fair. You have top corporate honchos praising Modi and hailing him as a superman.
2) UK would not have been forced to revoke Modi's ban.

Most importantly, I think Modi has what other Indian leaders lack- a spine.
sharpshooter Senior Member
sharpshooter
sharpshooter

Joined: 06 October 2005
Posts: 319

Posted: 11 January 2013 at 9:17am | IP Logged
Also silverbug, if you want to talk about rational leaders consider this- Modi had solar panels installed over a few canals. The benefit? not only are those panels generating solar energy, but they're also preventing loss of precious water by giving shade and preventing evaporation. Plus look at the way he has cleaned the Sabarmati river and made it into a tourist spot. In my opinion that guy has some very good ideas.

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souldancerchucknorrisANNMT.

souldancer Newbie
souldancer
souldancer

Joined: 24 April 2012
Posts: 3

Posted: 11 January 2013 at 9:31am | IP Logged
@ krystal_watz

Very true. He knows zilch about the history, the geo political situation and every other aspect that one is required to know to carry on with a sane, logical debate, Let aside the respect for the dead soldiers, he doesn't even have manners and the common sense to know what to post and where. If you have ever had a look at his posts everywhere you would know what I am trying to imply here. The posts full of boasting his dubious self pride and some utterly obscene stuff. He comes up with a doctrine that he preaches his ignorant e slaves, all blinfolded to make him look like some saint they should idolize and the next moment he literally starts talking about sniffing girl's asses and smelling their fart.
Trust me this guy clearly lacks conscience and his perpetual ranting about the sexual stuff only points to one fact that he is deprived, sexually and on numerous other counts in his real life. And then his slaves come to defend him when he is the one who first said everything wrong about the nation in a irrelevant thread and preaches the governments and people not to fight over a piece of land. A piece of land? haha that I think suffices to indicate the level of his ignorance and next to nothing passe knowledge he has. Those who blatantly agree to his views and like his posts at the first chance, most likely even without reading what he had wrote must first look at the horrible situation in a place / country he lives in. The countless examples of raciscm and other grave offenses against people there. But I would refrain cause I can see that those people have lost it. They don't have a viable argument to make and are making debate mansion and a thread dedicated to the people who died for their mother nation their breeding ground. Most of whome can't even decipher the posts here. And draft hasty replies without getting the gist of the matter. So I have chosen to debate with only the ones with e ethics alogwith a rational point of view to debate over. I hope people here understand this and ignore that irrational lot the way I did.


chucknorris IF-Dazzler
chucknorris
chucknorris

Joined: 19 October 2011
Posts: 3105

Posted: 11 January 2013 at 9:37am | IP Logged
Originally posted by krystal_watz

^^I'm not an American.

wasn't directed at you at all.

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