Debate Mansion

India-Forums

   
Debate Mansion
Debate Mansion

Where do you think we came from? (Page 99)

K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

Joined: 02 September 2012
Posts: 2031

Posted: 27 March 2013 at 11:42pm | IP Logged
it is quite obvious that space-time is what is behind the perception of separation.

space is separating "me" from the "rest". time is separating the events occurring in space. neither of these two (space and time) make sense unless we talk about motion.

motion itself is not understandable unless we have two reference frames relative to one another.

any discussion of "two" introduces duality. duality loops back to separation.

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

BirdieNumNum_Angie_

Vintage.Wine Goldie
Vintage.Wine
Vintage.Wine

Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 1152

Posted: 28 March 2013 at 12:01am | IP Logged
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum


and it could be-
f)  space that exists in our mind
g) space some people have between the earsLOL

i find it weird to think that everything we experience exists in our minds (either as brain activity or something layered over). We cant possibly ever know what's "out there" for sure because what we really have is a model of reality in our minds. It might be a good model or a distorted one (for example when someone's on LSD). Even when we're sober, we see an object as solid or having color, yet we "know" it's basically an energy soup, something totally different from the way we model it. So even when we have our faculties about us, the model might at best be a fairly good one, not an accurate one.

another thing- we often talk about observer/ observed. The obvious question we've still not answered is who the observer is. The entire nervous system? That's a whole lot of energy particles. Something intangible in addition to the brain/ sensory system that we call consciousness?

just to get some this going again...Smile


   @ All Bolds:  Absolutely ...LOL ...There is this desolation in the space that lies between the two years ..<< The feeling of SELF ...The identity that is ..which notionally separates everyone from each other ...That I guess is the biggest mystery ..We just don't know the pathway that connects us to the observable reality outside of our own system which leaves us groping for the truth at the level of Dvaita <<< As described in the scriptures ...

     I doubt if modern science  can ever help us reach there ..The way they keep ridiculing their own theories and models year after years ..And then that Finding Quantum gravity stuff Free brought in his Parting Speech ...LOL ..Now tell me why would scriptures even describe that ?  When Its for the confused lot ...LOL ..Who are still wary of asserting the Universe's exact shape ...Flat model ? or the gravity specific curved SpaceTime structure ...May be they ll add more constants ? ...A gimmick of an effort to finally agree to each other and make life easy for physics students ? LOL 

     I'm pretty sure the efforts would end at higgs particle level ..Cause unlike light, the other mass less particles don't belong to no visible spectrum ..and they are very unsteady I guess ...How are they supposed to prove the existence of such mass less particles and how could they base a entire new theory that combines QFT and immense gravity without such imaginary particles ? Cause it sounds as great as quantaizing, solving the singularity itself ...Ouch ..What funny people ...LOL

   Vintu ...Tongue









The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

BirdieNumNum_Angie_

BirdieNumNum Goldie
BirdieNumNum
BirdieNumNum

Joined: 07 October 2012
Posts: 1120

Posted: 28 March 2013 at 12:52am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Vintage.Wine


   @ All Bolds:  Absolutely ...LOL ...There is this desolation in the space that lies between the two years ..<< The feeling of SELF ...The identity that is ..which notionally separates everyone from each other ...That I guess is the biggest mystery ..We just don't know the pathway that connects us to the observable reality outside of our own system which leaves us groping for the truth at the level of Dvaita <<< As described in the scriptures ...

     I doubt if modern science  can ever help us reach there ..The way they keep ridiculing their own theories and models year after years ..And then that Finding Quantum gravity stuff Free brought in his Parting Speech ...LOL ..Now tell me why would scriptures even describe that ?  When Its for the confused lot ...LOL ..Who are still wary of asserting the Universe's exact shape ...Flat model ? or the gravity specific curved SpaceTime structure ...May be they ll add more constants ? ...A gimmick of an effort to finally agree to each other and make life easy for physics studentsLOL 

     I'm pretty sure the efforts would end at higgs particle level ..Cause unlike light, the other mass less particles don't belong to no visible spectrum ..and they are very unsteady I guess ...How are they supposed to prove the existence of such mass less particles and how could they base a entire new theory that combines QFT and immense gravity without such imaginary particles ? Cause it sounds as great as quantaizing, solving the singularity itself ...Ouch ..What funny people ...LOL

   Vintu ...Tongue

 
hey, i know i am taking great risk when i say this but i love your posts on this thread! LOL Totally agree with the points you made above!!!
 
i think any unified theory for me would have to explain both our cosmological origins and the origins of our consciousness. Without resorting to a zillion constants like you said.

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

Vintage.Wine_Angie_

BirdieNumNum Goldie
BirdieNumNum
BirdieNumNum

Joined: 07 October 2012
Posts: 1120

Posted: 28 March 2013 at 11:20am | IP Logged
just addressing some of the questions above-

i am fine with interconnectedness- it's what i believe is the case. There's simply too much uncertainty about where our particles are to be sure we know where we begin and where we end.Smile

i also think there are two things going on- one is "information" and the other is obviously "material". We 'experience" color, although color is not a physical attribute of an object. That experience is in terms of material neural activity. Then we have information- the forms of objects. We model these in our minds in terms of their interactions with other objects in our minds, and add our experience of color onto them. The information itself is something transient. Either way, what "we" experience is only our consciousness, not the real world. We can't ever know what the real world is because the only thing we ever experience or "see" is the image in our minds.

An example would be the bits encoded in a digital music disk. The CD player transforms it into electrical impulses that are then amplified to drive the speakers. Sound waves get transmitted, vibrate our ear drums, send signals to the brain, and we find ourselves "hearing" and 'enjoying" the music. But what did we start out with? Bits on a disk. We experienced something that was just a model encoding data.

Almost makes me wonder if each one of us is living in a parallel world that is all in our minds, not a real world that is all substance but no mind. Smile


The following 3 member(s) liked the above post:

Vintage.WineK.Universe._Angie_

K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

Joined: 02 September 2012
Posts: 2031

Posted: 28 March 2013 at 12:34pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by BirdieNumNum

hey, i know i am taking great risk when i say this but i love your posts on this thread! LOL


Ouch! LOL


Originally posted by BirdieNumNum

Almost makes me wonder if each one of us is living in a parallel world that is all in our minds, not a real world that is all substance but no mind. Smile


I will get back to your other stuff, including stuff posted by Vintu, at the first available opportunity. There is too much getting queued up, both in real life and in virtual:)

Regarding your point that I am quoting above: If "each one of us" exists in your mind, then what makes you think "they" will have their own parallel worlds? If each of you exist only in my mind, I would have no reason to think that each of you would have a world of your own.

 

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

Vintage.Wine_Angie_

BirdieNumNum Goldie
BirdieNumNum
BirdieNumNum

Joined: 07 October 2012
Posts: 1120

Posted: 28 March 2013 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Universe.



I will get back to your other stuff, including stuff posted by Vintu, at the first available opportunity. There is too much getting queued up, both in real life and in virtual:)

Regarding your point that I am quoting above: If "each one of us" exists in your mind, then what makes you think "they" will have their own parallel worlds? If each of you exist only in my mind, I would have no reason to think that each of you would have a world of your own.

 

parallel as in we experience something in our minds that is parallel to the real world. Parallel. But not the same, and in fact vastly different. What we experience is a world in our minds that has processed information received from the external world. We don't experience the real world for what it is. Hope that's clear now. 

as to 'each', here's what i mean: each as in our respective minds. 'Knowing' that i have a mind, only assumption i am making is you have a mind. Feel free to correct me if i am wrong.LOL

but really, are you just trying to be pedantic/ argumentative or is that what you seriously believe? You are ready to make all kinds of extrapolations based on the science you know. Is the extrapolation made here about 'each' really such a big jump for you? LOL

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

Vintage.Wine_Angie_

K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

Joined: 02 September 2012
Posts: 2031

Posted: 28 March 2013 at 1:16pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum

parallel as in we experience something in our minds that is parallel to the real world. Parallel. But not the same, and in fact vastly different. What we experience is a world in our minds that has processed information received from the external world. We don't experience the real world for what it is. Hope that's clear now. 

as to 'each', here's what i mean: each as in our respective minds. 'Knowing' that i have a mind, only assumption i am making is you have a mind. Feel free to correct me if i am wrong.LOL

but really, are you just trying to be pedantic/ argumentative or is that what you seriously believe? You are ready to make all kinds of extrapolations based on the science you know. Is the extrapolation made here about 'each' really such a big jump for you? LOL



Say, I exist. There I am, reacting to stimuli and processing inputs, storing metadata about external data, and "enjoying" in the process. The stuff I see/hear/smell/touch/taste is data. In that respect, you are data to me. My body itself is data to my brain/mind.

What we need to agree upon is: are there "several" minds or is there "one" mind, in the universe.

If several minds, then a mind didn't exist before the physical body. It developed/evolved along with the physical. If one mind, the bodies (physical) are only accessing it and do not have it.

So, even though you were jocular about assuming that "I" have a mind, I do seriously question whose mind it is.


Vintage.Wine Goldie
Vintage.Wine
Vintage.Wine

Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 1152

Posted: 28 March 2013 at 1:59pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by BirdieNumNum


 
hey, i know i am taking great risk when i say this but i love your posts on this thread! LOL Totally agree with the points you made above!!!
 
i think any unified theory for me would have to explain both our cosmological origins and the origins of our consciousness. Without resorting to a zillion constants like you said.
[/QUOTE]

  Aww ...Hahaha... Ty ...Tongue ..And at times we even like the posts that we didn't actually like ...LOL...So liking the ones that we truly like is gravy I guess ...I like your posts cause you bring in a newer thought each time you post ...Which I guess is exactly what we require to reach somewhere ...and who knows we might reach where no man has gone before ? ...LOL 

 Coming to the origin and stuff related to singularity ..I remembered the research by astronomer Wendy Freedman.. She discovered Stars that were older than the age of the Universe as calculated by measuring the galactic redshifts ..<<< Now I guess this can mean only two things ...

  A. The Big Bang's chronology is wrong or may be singularity is merely a work of imagination .

  B.  Like I doubted  before ...There could be two (Similar) universes that merged together ? That were created at different times? Or may be at a very short interval ? And this is why the distribution of gas mass and other particles is uneven in space ? 

    Vintu ...Tongue





The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

BirdieNumNum_Angie_

Go to top

Related Topics

  Topics Author Replies Views Last Post
Do you think rape is a cultural problem?

2 3

Author: Loving2011   Replies: 18   Views: 2357

Loving2011 18 2357 12 January 2013 at 10:16am by LeadNitrate
you think strict parenting is abusive ?

2 3

Author: beforesunrise   Replies: 17   Views: 2755

beforesunrise 17 2755 02 January 2013 at 10:53am by JalebiHearts
Do u think women think more than men?

2 3 4 5 6

Author: be-happy-always   Replies: 47   Views: 5538

be-happy-always 47 5538 16 December 2012 at 3:49pm by be-happy-always
So you think you can kill your children?

2 3 4 5 6

Author: MagicalKash   Replies: 41   Views: 3487

MagicalKash 41 3487 15 April 2011 at 6:55am by zorrro
Do you think weather affects mood?

2

Author: DesiGirl_   Replies: 15   Views: 1330

DesiGirl_ 15 1330 17 November 2010 at 10:10pm by Aleezzay..

Forum Quick Jump

Forum Category / Channels
Forums

Debate Mansion Topic Index

  • Please login to check your Last 10 Topics posted

Disclaimer: All Logos and Pictures of various Channels, Shows, Artistes, Media Houses, Companies, Brands etc. belong to their respective owners, and are used to merely visually identify the Channels, Shows, Companies, Brands, etc. to the viewer. Incase of any issue please contact the webmaster.

Popular Channels :
Star Plus | Zee TV | Sony TV | Colors TV | SAB TV | Life OK

Quick Links :
Top 100 TV Celebrities | Top 100 Bollywood Celebs | About Us | Contact Us | Advertise | Forum Index