Joined: 18 December 2004
wonderfull topic for discussion ,
has Dr.Simran kept her own identity especially with her name change to Simran Saxena...and if not, has the story lost the meaning and significance it was trying to portray?
simren first changed her surname when she got married to abhi,but after her divorce she went back to her maiden surname ,that time the title very well suited to the story line because simren was not ready to compramise with herself and accept another woman in her husaband's life
but after astha' kidnapping and simren adopting guddi and giving her astha name which infact is living in falsehood she aso went to take a extreme step of changing her surname to saxena even though she didnot remarry abhi just to give identity to "new astha", why didn't she give another name to guddi infact she could have stayed with the old surname "mathur" and could have told astha that abhi left her so she doesnot want to stick to his surname .
simren then (in the begining) was a symbol of a strong woman but now she stands for weak woman and she like any other woman or mother can do or is vulnerable to do anything to her daughter
so i strongly feel that title in the present after leap context has lost its meaning
Joined: 30 January 2005
Great reading your replies... it was very interesting to see a variety of opinions.
I think first we need to look at the meaning of Astitva..which is 'existance, identity'. But how do we create such an identity of ourselves in this world..obviously our first entry to our 'pechaan' is via our name we are given at our birth. That is the first step. Next is how we live up to our name, and make our lives worth 'existing'. This is done through our personal, social, academic contribution.
Therefore in relation to Simran, i feel she has lived up to her Astitva in terms of her academic and social life, however on her personal life, i tend to disagree. By changing her name, she fell to the norms of society and let go of her identity. After several years of building up the value of her name, she lets it go in one second for Abhi. I agree that society has particular views on divorced, single woman, however i feel that if approached in the correct manner Simran could have dealt with the situation differently with Aastha. We are in a constant changing world, and if we do not take a step now, how will we move forward in the future.
On the other hand, i feel that Abhi has began to make himself an identity as he matured into a wise man. His relationships have helped him build value to his name and he has contributed to society by sharing his experiences.
Therefore, i feel that Astitva is not only surrounded by females, it can be an issue with males too...like in the case of Simran and Abhi..it seems like that they may have had a role reversal.
However, i do not feel the story has not lacked in importance of signifying its point as it has dealt with the meaning of 'Astitva' from different angles.
Hope this makes sense !
Joined: 07 March 2005
Hi Forum Friends,
Agreed that Simran did fall to the pressures of the society when she decided to change her name. Being the kind of woman she is,maybe she should have retained her own name.But on the other hand it was mainly to give Astha the 'right' identity.It's not easy to explain to a child the complexities of life.Questions would have definitely arisen about her birth and her parentage if she had another name.She has infact saved Abhi from falling in his daughter's eyes by simply telling her that he left them for 'enlightenment'.
Simran may be a modern woman living in the biggest metropolis of the country,but she has to follow the norms to be accepted by the society.We cannot deny that even though our country has made progress in every field,we are still a conservative society.
In real life,a woman is absolutely capable of giving her baby her own name.My spinster aunt has adopted a boy and has given him her own name.But she has been able to do it because the boy knows that he is adopted.
That astitva is for men and women is absolutely correct.
But where Abhi is considered,I don't think he has a true identity now.He is definitely doing good work through his writings but it's some Mr. Anand who is getting the recognition.What about Abhimanyu Saxena? He will bring value to his Astitva when he is able to face the truth;face Simran,her family, his parents and above all his child,Astha and ask for forgiveness,live in society and continue the good work ,not by being in hiding.He has wronged his own people not the society at large,so he should rectify that first.He was never a bad person; he was just immature and impulsive and with age and self inflicted 'sanyas' he has become a mature and intelligent philosopher.
Simran on the other hand has lived in society, faced all the ordeals,constant threats from Radhaji but has stuck to her ground and raised Astha like her own.She has truely repented over her mistakes,be it her interference in Abhi's and Neha's married life or her differences with Manas.
I find it hard to believe that she her Astitva has become less meaningful in any way.
Just my view my dear forum friends,not trying to prove anyone wrong.Don't get me wrong as it is my second post on this topic.
Joined: 02 October 2004
Well I think Astitva has managed to stay true to it's theme. In fact this is why it remains the most watchable serial on the small screen today. A look at all other serials will show you that they have moved away or forgotten their themes completely, except perhaps Kyunki Saas, which, when it takes another leap, will come full circle as far as the title is concerned. JJKN started out as a story of this brilliant girl who was ordinary looking, an interesting concept, but then with Jassi's transformation everything changed, her looks, her intelligence and even her identity! Even KTH that started out as a Pride and Prejudice kind of story with five sisters has now petered out as a romantic saga with the focus shifting majorly to the two protagonists. And the less said about Kkusum and that long standing joke Piya ka Ghar, the better.
Coming back to Astitva though, this serial has explored the theme of Astitva or identity from all angles. Simran in the beginning is shown as a successful doctor. She has her own identity. People know her not as the daughter of Mr Saurabh Mathur (IAS) but as a successful gynaecologist. Saurabh does have an identity as an IAS officer but many people, especially those in Simran's circle know him as Dr. Simran's father, or as a member of Aastha Children's Hospital's helpline. In other words, Saurabh somehow has lost his identity as an IAS officer and is known more because of his daughter. This aspect is brought out more explicitly after his retirement. Simran's mother on the other hand had no identity. In fact I find many similarities between Simran's mom and Jassi's mom. They are both passive characters, always unquestioning and always content with what they have. Anyway coming back to Simran's mom, it was implied that she was an unhappy woman, who knew about the philandering ways of her husband, but dared not question him about them. In fact I think that after her death Saurabh felt guilty about not caring for her and cut off all realtions with the 'other' woman. Simran's sisters have also grown up in her shadow and Kavita openly resents this fact. So at the beginning itself Ajai Sinha established that Simran Mathur had an identity and a strong one at that, thus justifying the title partly.
Now Simran falls in love--with a man ten years younger to her. and this marks a turning point in the story. After marriage too Simran is able to maintain her identity. In fact Abhimanyu is known to more people as Dr. Simran's husband and not as Abhimanyu Saxena the famous fashion photographer. I think Abhimanyu resents this fact and this acts as a catalyst for their divorce too. I mean sure Abhi got involved with Kiran and yes the divorce would have happened anyway but it was Abhi's frustration that stemmed from his discontent at being overshadowed by Simran that expediated the process. In other words the root cause of his affair was an 'Abhimaan' type situation that Abhi was finding it difficult to deal with. Seen in that respect, the reason for Abhi's failed marriage to Kiran becomes clear, so also the reason for his becoming a writer, first as Musafir, then as Anand. Kiran was a successful model in her own right, and again the same situation cropped up. Ultimately it was because of the fact that he wanted to maintain his own identity that he fled and became 'Musafir', and now Anand. Of course other factors like Abhi's immaturity also contibuted to the aforementioned events, but I think Abhi's quest for his true identity was instrumental in the major upheavals in his life. Anand's reluctance to meet his daughter even after 18 years stems from his fear that if he meets them the truth that he was Abhi would be out and he would again be overshadowed by the more prolific Simran.
Not just Simran and Abhi but all major characters in the story are faced with an 'identity crisis' so to speak. Urmila's extramarital affair resulted from her desire to break free. She also felt overshadowed by Manas' achievements, the reason why she initially decided to join Ashwin This fact, added to her gullible nature made her very susceptible to Dr. Ashwin's potentially dangerous game. She ultimately murdered him, but while in prison, she succeeded in maintaining her own identity--she fought for other prison inmates. Even today, she has a certain identity--as COO of ACH. It is another matter, however that people also know her as Dr. Siddhant's mom.
Coming to the new generation, I don't think Aastha has any identity of her own until now. She is just Dr. Simran's daughter. Even Sia for that matter. I think Sonu aka Sid is the only one who has an identity of his own. Simran has retained her identity all right, even if she is Simran Saxena today, which I think is because she wanted Aastha to have a normal upbringing. However now that the focus has shifted to the younger generation, Ajai Sinha should focus more on their quest for identity. It would be interesting to see what Sia and Aastha do, especially now that they know the truth, but it seems Astitva after the leap is losing focus as far as justifying the title is concerned. I may be wrong, but as to that, only time and Ajai Sinha will tell!
PS. I take this opportunity to thank Sree, aloo_gobi and innocentindian for starting a very good topic. Keep up the good work guys.
Joined: 07 March 2005
Very well analysed.I agree with you all the way.
Joined: 20 September 2004
Terrific topic Aloo gobhi. Excellent analysis Koihai. I completely agree with you , except for, maybe the point about Abhi feeling overshadowed by Simran. I think it was a simple case of carnal desires overtaking the sense of duty in a 24 year old man. Other than that ,IMO, you are bang on.
For me Astitva is not a name. It does not matter whether it is Simran Saxena or Simran Srivastava. More important is, she gets to have the choice. After getting married to Abhi, she changed her name because she wanted it that way. Having an astitva does not mean going against everything that is done in a society. Family name makes a cohesive unit. In every animal society order, there is an 'Alpha male' and often,an alpha female, who lead the pack or the herd. This is not to say that a male is the leader of the house. But a similar name does bind the family together and keeps it as a unit. Keeping your maiden name even sometimes leads to some major paperwork confusion, beleive me. Not for nothing almost all the females across the world prefer changing their surnames to their husbands as soon as they get marrried. Unless they are filing separate tax returns. In which case, in most cases, they prefer to live in a 'live in' relationship. Besides, with all other members having one surname, it's kind of odd to have a different one. And more often than not, it establishes nothing. If a lady is successful, surnames will not matter anyway. Becoming a Nene has taken away nothing from MAdhuri Dixit , becoming a Walia has added to the allure of Nikki Aneja. Jaya Bhaduri is married to the most famous Indian whose name will become Indian Cinema's Alexander and yet even today Jaya is Jaya, bachchan or a Bhaduri...who cares !!!!
Coming back to Astitva, if Simran's mother had kept her maiden name, I don't think that it would have made any difference to her nature. Because she probably would have done it because her husband asked her to. Or else, we might have radically differnet lady altogether. Similarly by becoming a Srivastava or a Saxena Simran exercised with an inborn right her mother never had. I think Simran has done full justice to her astitva,barring her dealing with Abhi,with whom she has gone too soft.
She is a strong woman and faced some terrible times in her life and has braved them, sometimes with ease and others with difficulty. She has been a good doctor, a good daughter, a good social worker, she was a good wife, but was unfortunate the husband did not realise it on time, a good daughter in law who in time won over her in laws and till date looks after them, a good mother who has done her best to inculcate good values in her child and above all a good human being who has kept her gentle nature inspite of all the bitterness she faced. IMO, she has as a woman,never given up on any situation and has always done what her heart and mind told her too. She has been a decision maker and yet a very emotional human being. She has made mistakes and has been brave enough to rectify them.
As for Abhi, he still has a long way to go. Taking up resposibility is the greatest level of maurity. Until Abhimanyu Saxena does that, in my eyes, he will always be a successful worker in my eyes, be it as a fashion photographer, a journalist or a writer. He is good, maybe the best, in whatever he does. However, for being a mature human being, he needs to be more than a good photographer or a writer. He is the one who needs to find his Astitva.
Joined: 22 November 2004
Astitva or Identity is the distinct personality of an individual regarded as a personal entity. To me, Simran has always been true to her identity. She merely changing to Simran Saxena is not going to make her fall short of her identity.
Let me begin my discussion like this:
Simran has been a very bold and strong character from the day this serial started. She knew her roots. She was very determined in life to set up a hospital and serve people. In this process, she never noticed time fleeing and time taking away from her, her age when all girls aspire to get married and settle down happily with a loving husband.
She lived her dreams and did not bother that she was in her mid-thirties and yet single. She had seen both her sisters getting married before her, though they were younger. These aspects did not trouble her at all. This showed that she was determined to achieve something and she very well knew her priorities.
It was only when she saw Abhi that she got some feelings of love and marriage. She definitely thought twice before deciding to marry Abhi. If only Abhi was as mature as her at that time, theri marriage would have been a great success story.
But fate had other plans for Simran. Life was a bed of roses for Simran till the point she got into a family way. It was Abhi's immaturity that played its part there. Abhi needed physical relationship which Simran could not provide due to her late pregnancy. This made Abhi wander away from Simran, he took shelter in Kiran's arms. Simran was in her advanced stage of pregnancy when she got to know that Abhi had an illicit relationship. This affected her health. She was completely shattered. She took some time to overcome this grief. But yes, she emerged the winner. She vowed to herself that she would live for her kid AStha and her hospital, the other AStha. She started a life on her own and moved forward.
Here, I would like to tell you all that a woman who overcomes the grief of her husband leaving her, that too when she is about to deliver, is somebody really great. No woman can stand this shock. I shudder at the very thought that something like this would happen to me.
So, here is where Simran stands tall and retains her Astitva. She sees to it that her life is again on the right tracks, rolling on the right path. This is where she holds upright her AStitva. Let me tell you, Astitva is not merely the name you hold. It is the deeds for which you are known for.
Even after this, the testing times for Simran was not over. Abhi came back into her life after being dumped by Kiran. Here, eventhough Simran knew that Abhi was a changed man and that she had the same feelings for him, got him married to Neha. This is a blunder that Simran committed. We all have to agree to this.
After that, Simran was directly or indirectly responsible for the agony and mental torture that Neha faced. I don't want to discuss more on this as I will be moving away from this topic.
Then when again, everything was falling in place for Simran, with Abhi and Simran ready to get married again, destiny had other options for Simran. Simran was again left in midway, with the dying words of Neha to be a mother for her daughter.With Abhi gone, Simran had to fulfill Neha's wish and she took the step of changing her name to Simran Saxena.
Here, I ask What lies in a name!!!She took up the name Sawxena just to give Gudiya natural and unconditional love. After all, she did not do anything wrong in taking up Abhi's surname. This was what Neha wanted. Neha wanted Simran to be her kid's mother, thus meant she wanted Abhi and Simran to get together. So what, if Abhi was not around? For a lady like Simran, crossing this hurdle and moving ahead was just natural. She did it successfully. She brought up AStha as her own daughter. Here, I admit that Simran was wrong in not telling AStha the truth regarding her parentage.
Simran pampered AStha a lot and gave her full freedom. When think along Simran's view point, this pampering and over protection that AStha AStha got was due to the basic fact that she was not Simran's kid. It is a well known fact that a lady can beat Her Own Kid for good and make the kid realise its mistake. But in Simran's case, it was not her kid, so probably did not want to take a very strict attitude towards the kid. This was the major reason for AStha growing up as a pampered, spoilt kid.
Astha considered Simran as her mother and in her presence, did not feel that she did not have her father around. This is where Simran might have thought that if AStha was told that she does not have both her parents with her, it would really affect her mental state. This is why Simran might not have told AStha the truth as AStha was growing up.
After AStha got older, Simran found that AStha was not responsible enough. She never took studies seriuosly. She just played around, not yet understood what her duties as a daughter were. So, this is another reason why Simran has not yet told her the truth.
But, in the midst of all these, Simran never realised what is in store ofr her in future if Astha gets to know the truth. This in turn proves Simran's unconditional love in AStha. The story stands at this stage and I don't know what lies ahead. But, I can predict one thing for sure. Knowing what Simran is capable of, I truly feel Simran will emerge successful in this too and will remain true to her AStitva.
So, I conclude by saying that Simran had, has and will remain tru to her Astitva, no matter how many hurdles and testing times she has to undergo.....
Sorry, friends, i got lost in this topic so much, did not realise that the reply went bigger and bigger. Kindly bear with me....
P.S:Keep your thoughts coming, friends. We plan to post a new topic every week. So be ready for action every week, come out with your comments, make this section more lively and enjoyable....
Joined: 17 December 2004
u have made some really good points there....
But at the end, u mention about how u think simran willl eventually successfully handle gudiya and the way she probably feels about the current situation...actually, i beg to differ....
From the points you made in your posting about "abhi's maturity graph", i am inclined to think that soon, abhi will be introduced with the family and it will be abhi who handles not only gudiya, but sia and even simran....i think at this point simran is due to break down as it could all get too much for her...and that is when abhi will shine through with his own astitva ...
what do u think?
i take the point that fireice made a while ago that abhi will go to london etc, and this may well happen, but even in the midst of all that, the one that will save the day is abhi....
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