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Simran: Is she true to her AStitva?

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Aloo_gobi

Senior Member

Aloo_gobi

Joined: 30 January 2005

Posts: 264

Posted: 12 May 2005 at 4:51pm | IP Logged

Hi All...

A while ago, i suggested having topics/debates to discuss each week to make this forum more interesting.  I have thought of a worthwhile discussion for this week and would be very keen to know all your opinions on this. 

The title of the soap: 'Astitva' means literally 'existence, identity' ... and.  I found a passage discussing the meaning of Astitva and this is what it said:

" women especially in india have difficulty finding their own identity as in India, what is a woman born with? A name… followed by her father's… and then the family name. She gets married. In most cases, her name is changed. Out goes her father's name, to be replaced by her husband's. The husband's family name replaces her own.

She gets pregnant. She nurtures the child in her womb for nine months. A child is born. The child gets the name, followed by its father's and then the father's family name is added to its name.

After going through all this, what does a woman die with? Absolutely nothing."  

I found this very interesting and wanted to start a topic on this. 

 

What my topic of discussion is that taking into consideration the meaning of 'Astitva', has Dr.Simran kept her own identity especially with her name change to Simran Saxena...and if not, has the story lost the meaning and significance it was trying to portray?

 

I would be very keen to hear all your comments on this topic...

 

Aloo Gobi

 



Edited by sree_20 - 24 May 2005 at 7:16am

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peaches

Goldie

peaches

Joined: 24 March 2005

Posts: 1022

Posted: 12 May 2005 at 7:13pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Aloo_gobi

Hi All...

A while ago, i suggested having topics/debates to discuss each week to make this forum more interesting.  I have thought of a worthwhile discussion for this week and would be very keen to know all your opinions on this. 

The title of the soap: 'Astitva' means literally 'existence, identity' ... and.  I found a passage discussing the meaning of Astitva and this is what it said:

" women especially in india have difficulty finding their own identity as in India, what is a woman born with? A name… followed by her father's… and then the family name. She gets married. In most cases, her name is changed. Out goes her father's name, to be replaced by her husband's. The husband's family name replaces her own.

She gets pregnant. She nurtures the child in her womb for nine months. A child is born. The child gets the name, followed by its father's and then the father's family name is added to its name.

After going through all this, what does a woman die with? Absolutely nothing."  

I found this very interesting and wanted to start a topic on this. 

 

What my topic of discussion is that taking into consideration the meaning of 'Astitva', has Dr.Simran kept her own identity especially with her name change to Simran Saxena...and if not, has the story lost the meaning and significance it was trying to portray?

 

I would be very keen to hear all your comments on this topic...

 

Aloo Gobi

 

Wow...the is a great topicClap.

I just want to say that yes to certain degree I do believe that Simran has been true to her identity.  The only reason she changed her name was because she wanted be Aasth's mother and raise her as her own.  If she hadn't done that, she wouldn't have been able to bring her up in this society.

She didn't lose her identity by changing her name, she just added on more roles in her life. 

A very important part of being a woman is that she has understand that her roles in life are more defined and require a lot more work than men.

As a daughter she has more responsibilities than her brother, as a sister she has to be more responsible than her brother (younger or older), as a wife she has to be much wiser and tolerant than her husband, as a mother again more is expected from her than the father, and later on as a grandmother she has more strength than her husband.

Astitava to me is about Simran and her roles in life and how she works live through each of them.  By her changing her name doesn't mean that she changed who she really is.  This was her conforming to the rules of his world that she lives in and to protect her daughter and give her a normal upbringing.

I think a woman is just built a certain way.  That's why her anatomy is so distinct than a man's since a woman can hold a fetus for 9 months and then pushes it out.  So keeping those physical strains in mind, don't you think that a woman is built stronger meanly as well?

The fact that a woman dies with an identity associated with a man that's so true, but this is how our society works.  Unfortunaly we have to conform to these rules.

Thanks

Peaches

* ^ Princess **

Goldie

* ^ Princess **

Joined: 19 April 2005

Posts: 1227

Posted: 12 May 2005 at 7:20pm | IP Logged
great topic

Akshata

Senior Member

Akshata

Joined: 07 March 2005

Posts: 604

Posted: 13 May 2005 at 2:17am | IP Logged

Hi Forum friends,

Interesting topic!Approve

The astitva of a woman,Indian or otherwise need not begin or end with the name if the woman does not allow it.The name,specially the family name does give an identity to any individual to begin with,say as an introduction.It's a system the society has been following just to maintain some kind of order.Too much importance should not be attached to a name.

A big deal is made of taking the husband's name after marriage .Women  have now started using their  husband's name in addition to their maiden name.If they have made a name for themselves before marriage,they like to be identified by that name.If the husband is a famous or an important man they are willing to use the husband's name because they want to be known as that man's wife. So,it's the woman who chooses to give importance to a name rather than her own existence as a person.If both are equally famous,the name hardly matters.

Jaya Bhadhuri (Bachchan) is a very good example.She had no 'filmi' background.She was already a famous star when she married Amitabh.Most of us identify her as a good actress and those who know her personally, maybe as a good wife and mother,or friend.

True identity of a woman or any person for that matter,lies in what he or she really is.Talking of a woman,her own strength and ability to play so many roles efficiently keeps her astitva alive. Each person in her life identifies with her in a different way.

If a woman can live her life by her principles and conviction for the betterment of everyone and herself,her Astitva is complete.

With reference to Astitva...ek prem kahani,Dr.Simran has not lost her identity.She has sacrificed and compromised with life to bring happiness to a child to keep a promise(ofcourse there may be some guilt involved).

Instead of focusing on the name,we must try and make our Astitva,our existence more meaningful.

Cheers,

AkshataThumbs Up



Edited by lakshmi_maruthi - 13 May 2005 at 11:16am

anitamanns

Newbie

anitamanns

Joined: 24 October 2004

Posts: 34

Posted: 13 May 2005 at 9:36am | IP Logged

Defiantely a fascinating topic...

Something that gives all woman a reason to pause and think !! If we look at it from a feminist 20/21st century point of view it does seem like a woman has no identity without a father or a husband which unfortunately is the reality.

But on the other hand who gives every human being its exsistence or identity.. it is the woman... a woman merging her identity with a father or  husband is not to deny her exsistence. The name is only a form of identification for the human  body and in.. if we were to get spiritual and in the grand scheme of life.. does it really matter what your name is.. it matters who you are.. AND WOMAN MATTER.  I don't have to get into that for anyone to understand that the female race matters.

I will post a nice mail that I just received that is going around the web which is interestingly related to this topic. 

vasamv

Goldie

vasamv

Joined: 20 October 2004

Posts: 1732

Posted: 13 May 2005 at 12:17pm | IP Logged

 Yes, what is in a name? What matters is the role of a woman and the space she gets in life.It is a myth created by males that a man is a sronger species than a woman.Yes, physically it may be true but mentally and spiritually a woman is much stronger.(This observation comes from a man!)

 This is what the original story of Simran wanted to portray and even with twists aned turns  inherent in an Indian TV drama she is still one of the best female characters on show.

pj04

IF-Veteran Member

pj04

Joined: 02 September 2004

Posts: 1623

Posted: 13 May 2005 at 4:25pm | IP Logged

  astitva means identity or better existance  .there is more to a person's identity and existance than just his/her name.a person's identity is more related , to how far  he/she is able to stick to his principles/convictions, how self actualized he/she is , what is the level of his/her self esteem and how much he/she is in tune with himself/herself.one can have an identity or can exist irrespective of thier education , sphere of life, looks ........etc...etc.

              indian women are said to lack identity or existance because somewhere in the process of nurturing her husband, kids,parents, she loses touch with herself. she is so busy adapting with the whims of people around her , that she becomes a doormat or a means to end. people seem to forget that she is human too.

          simran has remained true to herself for most part inspite of all the twist and turns. she tried to be a good wife and daughter-in-law(so what if she failed), daughter,mother and doctor(she exceled in these roles) and above all a good human being. she never lied to herself, never compromised with her principles and tried to live to her complete potentials. i think that she left a mark on people around her and that is her identity.

innocentindian

Goldie

innocentindian

Joined: 17 December 2004

Posts: 1490

Posted: 14 May 2005 at 7:37am | IP Logged

hi peeps

a great topic, and one I think women are more qualified to reply to and one that us men should take full note of their thoughts on...

However, i have been asked to write something, so i will....but pls remember i am always willing to change my thoughts....

The fact that a woman has her fathers name and then her husbands name is more a social system and one which makes sense and one which i think really must be adhered to. This itself does not affect a womans astitva... As a son, I am proud to hold my fathers name as a middle name, and my fathers surname as my own. This is how it should be.

The fact that the woman holds her fathers name before marriage is a "rule" the son also follows - but this does not affect his astitva. In fact, if they didn't then it would affect his astitva as well as hers. Roots are important for anyone, and the fathers name provides this.

When the woman gets married, she becomes someone elses, and in fact this is where the roots of the word "amanat" hail from.  I actually think it makes total sense that the wife assumes the husbands name. As an entity, it is my belief - and this applies mostly to indian woman living the indian cultured way of life - it is my belief that she must maintain a certain degree of respect for her husband otherwise she causes problems for herself in her own existence....

Please note that I am not saying she needs to bow down to him umpteen times a day, and not refer to him by name and all that.....no, what I am saying is she must uphold a certian degree of respect for him in her own mind as well as in front of the world., and in fact this is in accordance with indian scriptures. Some people think that the scriptures were written by men so they would write this... but please don't think of the scriptures as something so mediocre...they really do make sense. The reason the woman needs to uphold this respect for her other half (and note I have not written "better-half") is because more than it being necessary for HIM, this mentality is actually necessary and esential for her to have for HER own benefit - for her own mental well-being.

I have seen and know very well some women who do not give a shred of respect to their husbands and have seen the mental torture they then go on to subject themselves to. Because of the inherent nature of a woman, it is necessary for her to uphold a certain type of mentality towards her husband. And once she does this, she is treading the path of her own astitva/existence in a more succesful way.

In the Zee Astitva Awards, a woman said how she has seen woman achieve more through being loving and polite than through fighting and assertiveness. People do call women the "weaker-sex" - yes physically they are, but other than that a woman can do so much good or so much bad that a man could never do, depending on her mental make-up and nature.

Astitva means existence/identity etc. Simrans identity is of a mature and successful doctor. Simrans existence is of a woman who has been wronged in marriage, wronged again by the same person at the alter, and one who has her most valued "possession" snatched from her. Despite all this, her existence has been of a woman who has stayed strong throughout all these ups and downs and managed to hold on to her identity.... Yes simran has had much injustice thrown at her, but that wasn't necessarily because of men - women also have been the culprit. So this proves that her astitva is her own.

I hope the above makes sense - not so easy to put thoughts in writing you know....

 

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