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Soundarya22

IF-Dazzler

Soundarya22

Joined: 13 October 2012

Posts: 2643

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 2:39am | IP Logged
Bhakti, SD- Reading your posts, for the first time, i wished so much that we were not online chat friends. I wish I could hug you both...an emoticon is just not enough, but it will have to do for now.Hug

Want to write so much more, will try over the weekend. 
all I can say is..I never thought a hindi serial, would bring so many like minded, wonderful, brave people together, I am so happy to have met all of you. 

To both of you, one of my favourite quotes:

"Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor Frankl

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bhakti2

Goldie

bhakti2

Joined: 16 September 2010

Posts: 1079

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 8:53am | IP Logged
Thanks, everyone, for your so kind replies.  I too feel fortune was so kind to bring us all together in this way. I always look forward to coming here to read everyone's thoughts.  No wonder the ladies here analyse the show from such deep angles, as well.  Complicated lives create compassion for others - I think that is why everyone writes such deep, thoughtful analysis and does not skate over the obvious surfaces.  They are treating the characters' lives as complex and multi-faceted, just as they would consider the complicated lives of those around them. 



Shri - I just don't have the words to write - you have been through so much, and your family as well, so many unfair things and yet you learn from them all and keep your faith through them all... I want to write more yet must gather the thoughts together.  I know I said the emoticons are insufficient (I am the one who needs the kaan-pakkar one!) and now I wish there were a better one for a hug - not the silly, fun hug - but a real one, from one beating heart to the other.

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bhakti2

Goldie

bhakti2

Joined: 16 September 2010

Posts: 1079

Posted: 01 February 2013 at 8:55am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Soundarya22

Bhakti, SD- Reading your posts, for the first time, i wished so much that we were not online chat friends. I wish I could hug you both...an emoticon is just not enough, but it will have to do for now.Hug

Want to write so much more, will try over the weekend. 
all I can say is..I never thought a hindi serial, would bring so many like minded, wonderful, brave people together, I am so happy to have met all of you. 

To both of you, one of my favourite quotes:

"Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor Frankl


Soundarya it is a beautiful quote - I will copy it down to remember it.  I looked up Dr. Frankl after seeing it in your post and found he had thought this way even while imprisoned in a death camp during World War II.  What a strong mind to be able to think such thoughts under those circumstances.  He kept his humanity alive - it is amazing!

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kt25

Goldie

kt25

Joined: 23 May 2011

Posts: 1209

Posted: 02 February 2013 at 1:20pm | IP Logged
@ALL - SBB interview showed that they were shooting for "Bindiya Chamkegi" song at 1 AM. Wow! the cast and crew are giving their all and it was really nice to see DD acknowledge the fact that despite being too late she is doing this for her fans who will like it for sure. VD probably was too tired and irritated with the reporter who asked how he is liking it and he responded to her question with a question of his own asking her if she is happy interviewing him at 1 AM. I thought that was a bit rude and top of that when she asked him about his dance steps he said that the choreographer knows his dancing abilities and kept the steps accordingly. Just because he is RK does not mean that he will be like Michael Jackson. I was like man he is snappy and curt in his responses.

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apolloartemis

Senior Member

apolloartemis

Joined: 25 May 2010

Posts: 934

Posted: 02 February 2013 at 1:32pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by bhakti2

Originally posted by apolloartemis

This woman is an inspiration. She picks up on what exactly makes rape such a henious crime- because of what the victim suffers, not because of what society perceives as suffering. Here in the States, rape is recognized as a crime against the victim- it is a huge shame on India, rape is often blamed on the victim.
I applaud the author for her example.ClapClapClap

How is it that in one culture (U.S., for example), the victim is seen as the wronged party and is given support accordingly, where as in another (many others, I fear), she is shamed and is responsible for the loss of honour for her whole family?

I am asking the question seriously and not rhetorically. It must be an anthropological matter, hai na, that shame and honour is in some settings symbolised by the purity and control of the woman, but actually resides in the hands of the men.  In this situation is it not so that one man (or an army of men, sometimes, as is happening in Mali, Somalia, etc.) will rape a woman not to destroy her per se, but to destroy the man whose honour she represents?  In this case scenario, it is no wonder she has no value - she is just a symbol, a territory over which one or another man has control. I mean to say, the rape of a woman by one man emasculates the other to whom she is attached by rishta.

So why does this take place in one cultural setting but not the other? And was this difference always present or was the West once more like the East, or vice versa?  Is it a matter of primate behaviour?  That is what I thought when a neighbour explained to me the plot of the current track of Punar Vivaah, in which a woman's previous husband tries to force the abortion of her current husband's unborn child.  It is a disgusting track, but also quite primate-like - I do remember reading about some simians who will take over a group of rivals, kill the males and the babies, and reimpregnate the females.  Is this brutal sort of biology present also in our primitive brain areas?  

Thank god, though, we do have free will and can think ethically.  Now if only more people will choose to do so.
Hi Bhakti! 
I don't think its a East/West thing per say. Even here in the U.S, there are places/people who blame the victim for the rape (for example- the clothes the woman was wearing, if she was drinking etc). It's a lot more prevalent in India, I think, because the general attitude towards women is that they are meant to be standards that gauge the honor of their menfolk. As a result, when they fall from that standard, they shame their family and not themselves. It's a different way of thinking, but one you can find in Eastern Europe a lot as well. In fact, in Bosnia, during the war, rape was used as a tool of warfare, to shame the men of the culture in question. Those people did not think of the huge effect it would have on the women...
It is just another burden we bear as women in this world. But all it does is make me more determined that if I have a daughter, she'll come into a world where her being a girl is not a disadvantage, but something she can take pride in. It's a world, we should all, in some small way, try to work towards.

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apolloartemis

Senior Member

apolloartemis

Joined: 25 May 2010

Posts: 934

Posted: 02 February 2013 at 1:36pm | IP Logged
Ya'll I just wanted to say: Thank for posting such beautiful, insightful posts. It's amazing to write/communicate with all of you. 
You guys have opened up my eyes to so many things- things have been quite hectic for me, both personally and studying wise, and just reading everything here, even though I have not had time to write, have given me a lot of hope and inspiration.
All of you guys...you all rock.
Guys, this isn't a farewell post or anything (i'm like fungus-does not go away!LOL) just wanted to let this great chat club know how much I adore them.

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bhakti2

Goldie

bhakti2

Joined: 16 September 2010

Posts: 1079

Posted: 02 February 2013 at 1:58pm | IP Logged
Hello, everyone!  Here I am quoting Shri without her permission so Shri, I am kaan-pakkring to you even once more, but I thought this was such a wonderful passage you wrote in the ED, I wished everyone could see.  I read it over many times, because I have thought and thought about this subject in life - the processing of loss. the acceptance of loss - how it comes up again and again in great literature and art and, of course, in religion. How loss is at the core of what it is to be human - just as we try foolishly also to avoid pain, as if such a thing were possible.  As RK numbs his with whiskey, so do we all sometimes stray from the path of good sense and seek to numb pain which we are meant to feel fully and to grow from.  Khair - I just thought the way you expressed was Clap - a beautiful life lesson and so compassionately delivered.



This is what Shri had written in the ED of Epi 184:
FEAR to LOSE is what AILS most. And I believe the strong minded always do something to remove that fear, which ever way it can be done. Sometimes the only reality left is to know that one is destined to lose and he better be a loser. How bad is that predicament ? But what if PEACE comes with accepting the LOSS. Thing is peace comes when one accepts his condition. And to accept anything one needs to question the condition and fight it. Until you have asked, there is no walking on the path to peace. And all this leads us on the path of renunciation.

You too are questioning what you don't want to accept. And I am just trying to answer. This is how we find answers in the world at real too. Speaking from my experience.

I agree that just as it is difficult for you to accept what RK is doing, it is difficult to answer for me as well in his support. But then, there was Lord Ram who left everything and went on exile to bestow peace for his parents( their condition was not for him to question, peace to him was to just to listen, to follow) and there was Gautam Buddha who left his wife and son behind to find his answers.  Two different contexts. Compared to Gautam Buddha, RK is not taking SANYAAS and that is so much uplifting and to know that he is still a SANSAARI. And we build our character, hearing these stories, having faith in God. 




Edited by bhakti2 - 02 February 2013 at 1:53pm

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bhakti2

Goldie

bhakti2

Joined: 16 September 2010

Posts: 1079

Posted: 02 February 2013 at 2:02pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by apolloartemis

Originally posted by bhakti2

Originally posted by apolloartemis

This woman is an inspiration. She picks up on what exactly makes rape such a henious crime- because of what the victim suffers, not because of what society perceives as suffering. Here in the States, rape is recognized as a crime against the victim- it is a huge shame on India, rape is often blamed on the victim.
I applaud the author for her example.ClapClapClap

How is it that in one culture (U.S., for example), the victim is seen as the wronged party and is given support accordingly, where as in another (many others, I fear), she is shamed and is responsible for the loss of honour for her whole family?

I am asking the question seriously and not rhetorically. It must be an anthropological matter, hai na, that shame and honour is in some settings symbolised by the purity and control of the woman, but actually resides in the hands of the men.  In this situation is it not so that one man (or an army of men, sometimes, as is happening in Mali, Somalia, etc.) will rape a woman not to destroy her per se, but to destroy the man whose honour she represents?  In this case scenario, it is no wonder she has no value - she is just a symbol, a territory over which one or another man has control. I mean to say, the rape of a woman by one man emasculates the other to whom she is attached by rishta.

So why does this take place in one cultural setting but not the other? And was this difference always present or was the West once more like the East, or vice versa?  Is it a matter of primate behaviour?  That is what I thought when a neighbour explained to me the plot of the current track of Punar Vivaah, in which a woman's previous husband tries to force the abortion of her current husband's unborn child.  It is a disgusting track, but also quite primate-like - I do remember reading about some simians who will take over a group of rivals, kill the males and the babies, and reimpregnate the females.  Is this brutal sort of biology present also in our primitive brain areas?  

Thank god, though, we do have free will and can think ethically.  Now if only more people will choose to do so.
Hi Bhakti! 
I don't think its a East/West thing per say. Even here in the U.S, there are places/people who blame the victim for the rape (for example- the clothes the woman was wearing, if she was drinking etc). It's a lot more prevalent in India, I think, because the general attitude towards women is that they are meant to be standards that gauge the honor of their menfolk. As a result, when they fall from that standard, they shame their family and not themselves. It's a different way of thinking, but one you can find in Eastern Europe a lot as well. In fact, in Bosnia, during the war, rape was used as a tool of warfare, to shame the men of the culture in question. Those people did not think of the huge effect it would have on the women...
It is just another burden we bear as women in this world. But all it does is make me more determined that if I have a daughter, she'll come into a world where her being a girl is not a disadvantage, but something she can take pride in. It's a world, we should all, in some small way, try to work towards.

AA - thank you so much for your answer!  I felt sad for a moment to think ki, I see what you mean, that it is simply a condition of being born female - it can be this way anywhere in the world. And yet, i have always been strangely grateful to be female.  I would not wish to trade the experience.  Do you think, though, the mistreatment of women being so seemingly widespread, there is hope for changing this?  I do wish so...maybe one day many generations from now, people will look back upon our turbulent times and say, "What were they thinkingm to live in this way?"

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