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491 Babies Born Alive After Failed Abortions

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Beyond_the_Veil

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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 12:34pm | IP Logged
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_Angie_

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Summer3

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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 7:47pm | IP Logged
 
Yes sounds cruel and so sad .
 
 
The criminals should be given life sentences, caned and possibly hung.
 
 

_Angie_

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Posted: 30 November 2012 at 10:43pm | IP Logged

Nice topic and good questions raised  BTV !

Q1. Is the fetus equivalent to a human being and should terminating it be termed equivalent to murder?

A foetus is a potential human being whose  chances of survival increase with its gestational age.  There's no agreement in medicine, philosophy or theology as to what stage of foetal development should be associated with the right to life.

Q. 2. When do you feel life begins? When does person-hood begin? Conception, 2nd trimester, birth etc?

Its very difficult to say where and when one life begins and the other ends !

I would  say that a life takes on a form the moment the prospective parent  starts wishing for it :) However, A more practical approach would be to consider a life as an individual once the offspring  has emerged and separated  from its mother's body  and its vital organs have started functioning independently.

Q. 3. Should the potential right of a potential person be counted over that of the woman?

No.. A person who is living should be given priority over someone who could potentially live (as far as pro-life goes)

Q. 5. What are the circumstances when abortion can be deemed permissible?

When the continuation of pregnancy may be a threat to the mother's  health ( not necessarily  life)  it should be permissible for a  qualified doctor to conduct an abortion under the legal provisions  if the mother expresses such a wish.

Q.6. Do you support abortion after the first trimester?

It makes more sense to take precautions and  prevent unwanted pregnancies. However, abortion may have to be resorted to on health grounds of the mother or the  child.

Abortion (medical as well as surgical) should not be taken lightly. It has many attendant risks which increase with the duration of pregnancy.

1st trimester pregnancy ( less than 12 weeks)  terminations are comparatively safer, easier to perform, less psychologically taxing.

2nd trimester pregnancy ) (13-28weeks)  terminations are more risky, complicated, need considerably more expertise on the part of the doctor , psychologically more taxing as the foetus now takes on an increasingly human form . Most mothers would be able to feel foetal movements around 16-20 weeks and taking a decision to abort after that could be psychologically very  traumatic for the mother.

However should circumstances warrant  a termination even after first trimester under no circumstances should one's "pro-life stance"  make one sacrifice a living mother's  life for a potential life that may or may not survive once separated from her body.. One needs to think more deeply as to what exactly is pro life. The incident of the Indian dentist in Ireland who lost her life due to septicaemia as she was denied termination of her 17 week pregnancy inspite of a miscarriage all because of the Irish pro life stance  is still quite fresh and seeking justice from the Irish Govt and Human Rights commission.

The MTP Act 1971 of India requires the approval of at least two registered medical practitioners in order to conduct any abortion beyond 12 weeks of gestation. The Act  permits abortion only upto 20 weeks of gestation . Considering the risks involved at later gestational age restriction placed seems quite reasonable. Certain health conditions of the mother may need an early termination of pregnancy beyond 20 weeks . In such a case depending on the gestation period and viability of the foetus all facilities of a well equipped neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) that is available and accessible must be provided to the live born foetus  to increase the chances of survival.

It is debatable whether detection of congenital defect in the foetus at this late stage should be permissible grounds for  terminating  pregnancy especially where interventional intra-uterine correction facilities are readily available.

Q. 7. Should people be tried by the court in such cases?

If it is proved that undue pressure was applied on the mother either by the father, relatives or the doctor ( unless for reasons of her health)  then they should be tried by the court.

It is common for the abortions conducted at  20 weeks and  beyond to result in a live birth  but in most cases  that does not guarantee survival beyond a few hours. The survival chances are greater as the age of the foetus advances. For a  rough idea you could refer to this:

Completed weeks of gestation At birth --- Chance Of Survival

21 weeks and less ---------- 0%
22 weeks ------------------ 0-10%*
23 weeks ------------------ 10-35%
24 weeks ------------------ 40-70%
25 weeks ------------------ 50-80%
26 weeks ------------------ 80-90%
27 weeks ------------------ >90%
30 weeks ------------------ >95%
34 weeks ------------------ >98%


* Most babies at 22 weeks are not resuscitated because survival without major disability is so rare.
* The chances of survival diminish further  without  adequate nursery or NICU facilities at affordable rates.

The medical practitioners would be required to follow the legal provisions of the country.

Health care providers-  ( could be tried for misinformation,  breach of legal  provisions , ethics) They get  tried for non disclosure of information It is debatable as to how much disclosure of information would be considered reasonable to avoid a litigation.

Q.8. What kind of legal punishment would you prescribe for people involved (based on the above article)?

Lot of issues involved here.  Personal freedom, duties and responsibilities , accountability , feasibility , availability of medical facilities,  facilities for caring for unwanted newborns, their accessibility, affordability , awareness level of general population, and possible misuse of any laws framed  all need to be considered.

 

 

 

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Beyond_the_Veil

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Posted: 01 December 2012 at 1:11am | IP Logged
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_Angie_

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Posted: 02 December 2012 at 7:39am | IP Logged

^^ Seeing the response generated by the sex related topics on DM I too had expected a better reception to this topic but then this is more about the possible consequences . Now that the spam topics have been cleared hopefully it would get a better reception Tongue


 

Originally posted by Beyond_the_Veil

But is that reason enough to have abortions legal in all cases?

The laws regarding abortion varies in different parts of the world but most countries have legalized abortion upto 20 weeks.

Let us look at a scenario where a legal abortion is not an option-

It is not going to deter unwanted pregnancies so they would have only two options-

-  Approach people with doubtful credentials posing a serious risk to the health and life of the

mother.

-  Continue with the pregnancy

The first option is way too risky. Person may end with a blotched up abortion , infection, perforation of uterus, bleeding or death.

Second option could be too traumatic for a person who may be emotionally too ill prepared to go through the changes that pregnancy and later motherhood would entail. There could be social and financial problems too that make this proposition very impractical.

Unless there are adequate facilities for the care of the newborn baby it amounts to forcing the baby to a life of neglect. In case the girl cannot or does not want to take the responsibility of bringing up the child who takes over that responsibility and to what extent?

 
 
Originally posted by Beyond_the_Veil

I had absolutely no idea about babies being born alive and then dying due to abortive methods used. A fetus may not be a "human being" yet, but once it comes out it is, right? As such abortion in the second trimester, especially if the baby comes out and then dies after a while, can no longer be deemed as a 'termination of the fetus' - it becomes murder.
 
 

Point to be noted is that the prematurely delivered ( less than 23 weeks) baby is incapable of surviving outside the uterus with the technology available right now. Once the decision to expel it before it attains the age of viability is taken it spells death knell for the foetus whether its heart beat stopped before, during or a lttle while after it was completely expelled.

Assuming it gets legally termed as murder , who should face conviction for it?

-  The mother who requested for it

-  The people who influenced her decision for it

-  The qualified doctor who undertook it to save her the tauma and risks that could have otherwise ensued

-  Any other

@ Summer - Perhaps you would like to answer this one as you advocated caning and hanging of the criminals Tongue





Edited by _Angie_ - 02 December 2012 at 7:40am

Vinzy

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Posted: 02 December 2012 at 7:46am | IP Logged
One smalll doubt...If abortion is Murder, does that make condoms kidnapping?!! Geek

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ILoveDrama

_Angie_

IF-Rockerz

_Angie_

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Posted: 02 December 2012 at 7:50am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Prometeus

One smalll doubt...If abortion is Murder, does that make condoms kidnapping?!! Geek
who's  gonna pay the ransom ?

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zorrroVinzy

Vinzy

IF-Stunnerz

Vinzy

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Posted: 02 December 2012 at 8:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by _Angie_

Originally posted by Prometeus

One smalll doubt...If abortion is Murder, does that make condoms kidnapping?!! Geek
who's  gonna pay the ransom ? --Depends...But I knw some ppl used to say kidnapping is profitable   LOL
  

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