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Devon ke Dev Mahadev
Devon ke Dev Mahadev

Amrit- Devas & Asuras

mnx12 Moderator
mnx12
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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 3:25am | IP Logged
Samudra Manthan is a very big event that happened in Puranas with contribution of Tridevas, Devas & Asuras. This entire incident shows on first thought, that Asuras were cheated. Some say asuras wprked hard but didn't get anything.
Asuras did get something.
Here Samudra Manthan is shown from Shivji's pov but Vishnuji has a major role to play. 
Why Tridevs didn't help Asuras ? Let's see.
Shivji by drinking Halahal helped everyone including Devas, Asuras, Animals, Humans, the entire World.
As far as Vishnuji is concerned, he took Kurma avatar, held Mandar paravt during the entire churning, that itself is a big contribution. He got Lakshmiji back, so did the entire World.
Bali was a good king, but all other Asuras were not. had they become immortal, then this World would have been different. Asuras have a tendancy of misusing their power after getting a boon, for their tough penance. The World would have been different if along with good Asura like Bali others with Asuri vrittis would have become immortal.
Simillarly all the Devas are not perfect. Devraj Indra, is portrayed badly in this show, the real one was better then this one. The Devas like Indra, Agnidev, Vayudev etc are performing significant duties in this World since beginning, why any Asura is not given any important duty like Devas?
May be the reason, why Devas were given Amrit lies in the above mentioned fact. To retain balance of Brhmaji's creation, for which Aadi shakti was seperated form Shivji' Ardhnarishwar form many years back & it took her lots of efforts to unite back with him. To retain all the good things may be it was necessary that Asuras should not be immortal or after becoming immortal they might destroy all good things, even no one will listen to the Tridevs.
Devas, Indra are controllable by Tridevas upto certain extent but not all the Asuras. Would other asuras have listened to Bali to follow path of Dharma after being immortal? Higly doubtful.
 

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mithilaridshermione8sweetsandhyaGopiiivanadhiDeewaniRimiKarunimajayvenksukhi...foram.NandiniRaizadaa

vanadhi IF-Dazzler
vanadhi
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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 4:26am | IP Logged
almost u have said every ...deva's only work is to safe guard the earth and asura's only work to is disturb that by this or that means  LOL
these two are really funny before god's eyes i think so ...thats why shivji is favour of any one who follows darma ...where vishnu is interested to help the more comfortable ones who are less thread to his Earth (he is a preserver nah )=these leads to deva's automatically...
When good ones like Prahalad or bali campaign earth he relaxes a bit ...due to their good deeds ...
even in Ravan or kansh ...he do gave lot of time for them to enjoy their passtimes (like torturing indra and other'sROFL) before his arrival ...
It is said shiv is destroyer and Vishnu is protector ...here in asur's issues shiv gave boons to them to live  and vishnu took avators to  destroy them ...reverse order to reversible persons Stern Smile


the only thing i hate is Why indra has to pledge all the time to save his chair before lords ...
why dont.he try the same route by mediating (he can also claim a boon like no asurs will defeat me for another dash K years or Every asurs who is going to born ,already born should not eye his chair etc etc simple hai nah?  ) 


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mnx12DeewaniRimisukhi...foram.

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 5:32am | IP Logged
Vanadhi, well said. The Tridevs are Creater, Preserver & Destroyer. So they all are concerned about the World. So Vishnuji supporting those respensoble for maintaing Dharma is not surprising.
Indra is a true polititian, he wants to retain his Indrasana at any cost. Whatever he does is to safeguard his interests & save himself. Had he done it with his own strength instead of asking help from Tridevas, he would have been praised too.

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vanadhiDeewaniRimisukhi...foram.

kkr531 Senior Member
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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 5:53am | IP Logged
Originally posted by mnx12

Samudra Manthan is a very big event that happened in Puranas with contribution of Tridevas, Devas & Asuras. This entire incident shows on first thought, that Asuras were cheated. Some say asuras wprked hard but didn't get anything.
Asuras did get something.
Here Samudra Manthan is shown from Shivji's pov but Vishnuji has a major role to play. 
Why Tridevs didn't help Asuras ? Let's see.
Shivji by drinking Halahal helped everyone including Devas, Asuras, Animals, Humans, the entire World.
As far as Vishnuji is concerned, he took Kurma avatar, held Mandar paravt during the entire churning, that itself is a big contribution. He got Lakshmiji back, so did the entire World.
Bali was a good king, but all other Asuras were not. had they become immortal, then this World would have been different. Asuras have a tendancy of misusing their power after getting a boon, for their tough penance. The World would have been different if along with good Asura like Bali others with Asuri vrittis would have become immortal.
Simillarly all the Devas are not perfect. Devraj Indra, is portrayed badly in this show, the real one was better then this one. The Devas like Indra, Agnidev, Vayudev etc are performing significant duties in this World since beginning, why any Asura is not given any important duty like Devas?
May be the reason, why Devas were given Amrit lies in the above mentioned fact. To retain balance of Brhmaji's creation, for which Aadi shakti was seperated form Shivji' Ardhnarishwar form many years back & it took her lots of efforts to unite back with him. To retain all the good things may be it was necessary that Asuras should not be immortal or after becoming immortal they might destroy all good things, even no one will listen to the Tridevs.
Devas, Indra are controllable by Tridevas upto certain extent but not all the Asuras. Would other asuras have listened to Bali to follow path of Dharma after being immortal? Higly doubtful.
 


Every thing is not so Black and white as it seems, i would rather see it in a Historical perspective
rather than an out and out mythology.

every myth or legend has its base at least on iota of History

Devas and Asuras were not some separate beings as being projected neither are they immortal
all of them were humans albeit with different personalities.

we can look at it this way

1) Devas were kind of settled civilization who were well versed in the art of building, wealth generation, trade and other forms of craft. In short they were economically a wealth creators hence their realm was known as swarga or abode of happiness with attributes like kamadhenu and kalpa vriksha which meant all of the wants of the citizenry was taken care off.  Hence people would want to live in swarga and hence the inducement that if you are good in this life may be you'll born in land called swarga. In fact swarga  might be the wealthiest of all the human kingdoms at that time. Since they were the dominant culture with respect to cultural aspect their notions of divinity " the Five Elements endured over time" and exist till today. Vishnu existence always depended on success of devas and for all practical purposes Vishnu is a derivative of Indra as we see the development of Vishnu as a deity.

Obviously some treachery has been conceived and committed by devas while warring the asurs
this has been justified by saying that asurs are demonic and don't prescribe their culture. However the point remains how are devas legitimized to pass a judgement on asurs who had an effective counter culture as their success against devas shows.

2) on the other hand asurs were not settled civilization and specialized in gathering the bounty and living off on  raids, tributes and wealth gathering. In short a society built on dominance like the horse archers of the middle ages or huns of early middle ages. So face on face devas were no match for asurs as devas did many other things than just fight while asurs specialized and concentrated only on their prowess of war. Devas always committed  some sort of treachery or intellectual maneuver to outflank asurs. Asurs could not completely wipe out devas because they were sustained by wealth creation of devas. at the most they laid tributes and put some humiliating terms. just like moghuls could not finish off hindu culture as hindus were wealth creators.

so to put it in right perspective agni vayu varuna indra surya and other deities were only performing world duties according to daivic version of seeing this world. asurs simply did not accept this view point and had their own way of seeing things.

samuthra manthan might have been and historical event which tilted balance of power towards
devatas based on some treachery which is now attributed to vishnu. so the justification that world would have been destroyed by asurs had they been given amrit etc etc is quite shallow and doesn't really make sense .

fact of matter is devatas won and we always see winners version in scriptures and puranas   which might only be a half truth

regards
krishna

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.Vrish.vanadhiDeewaniRimiArijit007.Reshama.

mnx12 Moderator
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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 8:59am | IP Logged
Mythology is sometimes above History as many events have their spiritual aspects too, if one wishes to see. When we read stories of God, the aim is to learn something. We are only trying to analyse what is awailable from various sources. I prefer to see the brighter side, pick up what appeals to me, that's my pov which can be different from others.

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hermione8.Vrish.vanadhiDeewaniRimi

kkr531 Senior Member
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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:28am | IP Logged
Originally posted by mnx12

Mythology is sometimes above History as many events have their spiritual aspects too, if one wishes to see. When we read stories of God, the aim is to learn something. We are only trying to analyse what is awailable from various sources. I prefer to see the brighter side, pick up what appeals to me, that's my pov which can be different from others.


I am not disputing or endorsing any view, i only wanted to analyze the authenticity and symbolism behind the event as it is being talked as real event that actually took place. since it would be unjust to judge a loser on the sources which are largely written by winner.

as far as spiritual aspect is concerned there are hundreds of interpretations of samudra manthan
for example identifying ksheera sagara    as human mind and devatas and asurs representing different qualities of human being.

and i don't dispute them

regards
krishna

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.Vrish.vanadhiDeewaniRimi

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:36am | IP Logged
thanx guys for this info

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vanadhi

DeewaniRimi IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 10:56am | IP Logged
Thanks very much guys for your conversation on this topic.

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vanadhi

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