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Diya Aur Baati Hum
Diya Aur Baati Hum

12th Nov Epi- good yet average rating (Page 5)

ah99 Senior Member
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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 3:52pm | IP Logged
UMDU aunty, wish you a very happy diwali. 

I have to mention a certain point. You always say that Bhabho is against IPS education because it is too dangerous and she fears for her son's happy married life. If that were true, why couldnt she just let Sandhya know about that and encourage her to finish her studies, and maybe use her education to teach other children, or something like that ?

The real problem is her ego. She does not want Sandhya to study. Period. To that end, she is willing to play all sorts of mind games. If she really loved her son and her daughter in law as much as she claims she does, she would not hurt their feelings and disrespect them in front of the entire family time and again. My POV.

All other aspects of Bhabho's character analysis that you give are correct, except this one thing. Your comments?

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farhana874Juna04

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 6:45pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ah99

UMDU aunty, wish you a very happy diwali. 

I have to mention a certain point. You always say that Bhabho is against IPS education because it is too dangerous and she fears for her son's happy married life. If that were true, why couldnt she just let Sandhya know about that and encourage her to finish her studies, and maybe use her education to teach other children, or something like that ?

The real problem is her ego. She does not want Sandhya to study. Period. To that end, she is willing to play all sorts of mind games. If she really loved her son and her daughter in law as much as she claims she does, she would not hurt their feelings and disrespect them in front of the entire family time and again. My POV.

All other aspects of Bhabho's character analysis that you give are correct, except this one thing. Your comments?
 
Totally agree with you ah99   I never can accept that Bhabho's fears are only based on the dangers of that profession.   She is definitely having fears and insecurities on various issues like-  changes in the family heirarchy, structure, culture, breaking tradition, etc as it will definitely change the dynamics of all that she has known all her life.
She definitely is worried about her Son's married life as it would change a lot of things in the house. If she really loves her son she should have a talk with him and express all her fears and sort things out instead of being so forceful and rigid in her ways.  She definitely has a big ego and ultimately it does boil down to her ego.
 
Even though it is a perception that mothers love is always unconditional -  In reality one can see mothers who have spoilt relationship with their children on the basis of ego.   Bhabho in my opinion is one of them but in her case she is lucky to have a son like Suraj and a dil like Sandhya who will not let their relationship worsen to that extent.  Which means that they will have to sacrifice and take up hardships to get what they want and go against Bhabho.
 
 

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ah99

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Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:49pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ah99

UMDU aunty, wish you a very happy diwali. 

I have to mention a certain point. You always say that Bhabho is against IPS education because it is too dangerous and she fears for her son's happy married life. If that were true, why couldnt she just let Sandhya know about that and encourage her to finish her studies, and maybe use her education to teach other children, or something like that ?

The real problem is her ego. She does not want Sandhya to study. Period. To that end, she is willing to play all sorts of mind games. If she really loved her son and her daughter in law as much as she claims she does, she would not hurt their feelings and disrespect them in front of the entire family time and again. My POV.

All other aspects of Bhabho's character analysis that you give are correct, except this one thing. Your comments?
Thank you for your inputs. I have also stated in the post her insecurities her possessiveness and her determination to head the Rathi hierarchy. Go through the post clearly. Here one of the major blunders made by Suraj is that he talked about IPS. If that was not enough he enlisted the support of Ankur for the play. Try to now think what Bhabo will conclude. It will definitely be interpreted as a Kothari conspiracy. By his action Suraj has made her more regressive. Knowing his mother well do you not find it naive to go and talk to her directly about IPS. When Bhabasa  tried to tell Suraj it would have been ok if it were engineer or doctor and Suraj did not accept the idea and Bhabo was listening to the conversation with tears in her eyes. After hearing this how do you think she will melt .In other professions Suraj could have got Bhabasa's help, here he also is opposed to the idea.If the CVs had wanted to show Bhabo as you say than they would not have shown the scene where she cries for her son and his impossible dreams. Why did they show us that? They could have just stuck to rude and crude Bhabo? Why did they show us her humane side? That was done to make you understand her perspective.It is not all black and white and that is what they have tried to show through Bhabo's character. If they had talked about just graduation without mentioning  IPS, Suraj would have met resistance but not to the extent of burning the form. She would have been amenable with Bhabasa prodding. You want to believe it when they show her shouting  but you ignore scenes where they tried to show fears. Why?Here Suraj with his actions has closed the last way as well as now he has made her put up her guard.. I do not know where you live but let me tell you something in traditional North Indian families things are never discussed or debated. The youngsters are expected to listen to the elders.Revolt is punished severely. The same rule applies to all households of Hanuman Galli .All I am trying to say is Bhabo is in no way different from her peers.They are all the same.I am only attempting to give you the inevitability of the situation.No where have I said she is not egoistic. However had the approach of Suraj been gentle with Bhabasa's support she would have conceded. Here you have created an impossible situation where now when ever she agrees also the IPS fear will be there and it will be an approval with reluctance. This ia a never ending debate so it is  better we agree to disagree on this. Happy Diwali to you too.

Edited by UMDU - 13 November 2012 at 11:47pm

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ah99

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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 2:03am | IP Logged
UMDU aunty,

All your replies are valid, again. But point of contention is also the same, again. Bottom line is that Bhabho does not want Sandhya to study. Tears in her eyes when Suraj-Babasa conv took place- becos of the shocker, in her reaction to suraj was, 'tune yeh baat mere saamne laane ki zurrat kaise ki' or some such thing. if fear for sandhya's life and her safety were the only things on her mind, then the first reaction could have been like,' tu isske khatre nahi jaanta hai, maine tujhse zyada duniya dekhi hai beta, agar beendni ki kuch ho gaya to tu kaise jiyega' or some such thing, right? 

Also, I find Bhabho's nature put offish when she lets Mohit and Chavi blabber and trample Suraj all over the place. The other day also, only when Meena started taunting Suraj, she thought it was necessary to intervene and say no one should say anything to Suraj. Why didnt she say anything sooner?

One more thing, if unsurpassed love for her son is the only feeling Bhabho has, then the Hoi scene is impossible. No matter how angry a mother is, that too, a traditional mother like Bhabho who beleives in reeti-riwaaj, subh-ashubh etc. Never can such a mother not bless her son when he touches her feet on a festival, tht too on Hoi. Anger has its place, and reeti-riwaaj and superstitions have their place, right? How could Bhabho not bless Suraj, to me, it was the worst behaviour of her's till date. And yes, I am including all the earlier incidents like water-filling episode, papad, jewelry and also burning the form.

But then like you said, we agree to disagree on this. I only raised the question because your primary defense for Bhabho all along is that she fears for her son and DIL's happiness and safety. I am not trying to put you off by these arguments, I respect your opinion, thats why the debate in the first place. Hope you dont mind.

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UMDU

ah99 Senior Member
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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 2:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Juna04

Originally posted by ah99

UMDU aunty, wish you a very happy diwali. 

I have to mention a certain point. You always say that Bhabho is against IPS education because it is too dangerous and she fears for her son's happy married life. If that were true, why couldnt she just let Sandhya know about that and encourage her to finish her studies, and maybe use her education to teach other children, or something like that ?

The real problem is her ego. She does not want Sandhya to study. Period. To that end, she is willing to play all sorts of mind games. If she really loved her son and her daughter in law as much as she claims she does, she would not hurt their feelings and disrespect them in front of the entire family time and again. My POV.

All other aspects of Bhabho's character analysis that you give are correct, except this one thing. Your comments?
 
Totally agree with you ah99   I never can accept that Bhabho's fears are only based on the dangers of that profession.   She is definitely having fears and insecurities on various issues like-  changes in the family heirarchy, structure, culture, breaking tradition, etc as it will definitely change the dynamics of all that she has known all her life.
She definitely is worried about her Son's married life as it would change a lot of things in the house. If she really loves her son she should have a talk with him and express all her fears and sort things out instead of being so forceful and rigid in her ways.  She definitely has a big ego and ultimately it does boil down to her ego.
 
Even though it is a perception that mothers love is always unconditional -  In reality one can see mothers who have spoilt relationship with their children on the basis of ego.   Bhabho in my opinion is one of them but in her case she is lucky to have a son like Suraj and a dil like Sandhya who will not let their relationship worsen to that extent.  Which means that they will have to sacrifice and take up hardships to get what they want and go against Bhabho.
 
Thank you, Juna. Agree with all your points. Specially this- Even though it is a perception that mothers love is always unconditional -  In reality one can see mothers who have spoilt relationship with their children on the basis of ego.   Bhabho in my opinion is one of them but in her case she is lucky to have a son like Suraj and a dil like Sandhya . 

In our country, younger ones talking about elders mistakes is taboo. Grown ups know more, so younger ones automatically have to shut up, they say. In most cases, in this day and age, youngsters revolt and some go to the extent of leaving the house. Atleast that I appreciate that in DABH, the leads never give up on their parents. And yet, it is refreshing to see Suraj determined, not letting go of his wife's dreams (even though he has given up his desires 100s of times for his Bhabho- like the gold chain he got for his would-be wife etc. But in this case he is not giving up and I loved the way his expressions were sad, but totally defiant and guilt free. One important thing that Baba sa is also missing -I hope he mentions this in the upcoming episodes to Bhabho- is that Sandhya lost her parents and was cheated by her brother. She is Suraj's wife, manasa, vaacha, karmanaha. They have made promises to respect and honor each other for life. It is ofcourse Suraj's responsibility to take care of his wife. How can this action be seen only and only as a son's betrayal and not as a husbands responsibility? I dont expect Bhabho to understand this, becos she is too hurt and feels betrayed now. In such circumstances it is impossible to see the other person's position. But I am hoping that Babasa should mention this in the up coming episodes.
 
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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 3:51am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ah99

UMDU aunty,

All your replies are valid, again. But point of contention is also the same, again. Bottom line is that Bhabho does not want Sandhya to study. Tears in her eyes when Suraj-Babasa conv took place- becos of the shocker, in her reaction to suraj was, 'tune yeh baat mere saamne laane ki zurrat kaise ki' or some such thing. if fear for sandhya's life and her safety were the only things on her mind, then the first reaction could have been like,' tu isske khatre nahi jaanta hai, maine tujhse zyada duniya dekhi hai beta, agar beendni ki kuch ho gaya to tu kaise jiyega' or some such thing, right? 

Also, I find Bhabho's nature put offish when she lets Mohit and Chavi blabber and trample Suraj all over the place. The other day also, only when Meena started taunting Suraj, she thought it was necessary to intervene and say no one should say anything to Suraj. Why didnt she say anything sooner?

One more thing, if unsurpassed love for her son is the only feeling Bhabho has, then the Hoi scene is impossible. No matter how angry a mother is, that too, a traditional mother like Bhabho who beleives in reeti-riwaaj, subh-ashubh etc. Never can such a mother not bless her son when he touches her feet on a festival, tht too on Hoi. Anger has its place, and reeti-riwaaj and superstitions have their place, right? How could Bhabho not bless Suraj, to me, it was the worst behaviour of her's till date. And yes, I am including all the earlier incidents like water-filling episode, papad, jewelry and also burning the form.

But then like you said, we agree to disagree on this. I only raised the question because your primary defense for Bhabho all along is that she fears for her son and DIL's happiness and safety. I am not trying to put you off by these arguments, I respect your opinion, thats why the debate in the first place. Hope you dont mind.
1. It is not only danger to life alone it is the happiness of her son who will be separated from his wife which is of more concern to her.  Her separation from her son if he plans to stay with his wife is another concern. Suraj's reply to Bhabasa would have convinced her that this kind of talk should be put down severely before it takes an ugly turn. I have already pointed out that talking or round table conferences are never held in traditional houses.Why would you think Bhabo would hold it.
2.Go back to the episode you will see her speaking to herself that her decision will benefit him in the long run. It is not a shock but a feeling in her that Suraj is unaware of the implications of the decision.
3.Her not controlling Mohit and Chavvi I have stated in my posts that she uses them to get even with Suraj.When ever there is a confrontation with Suraj they are her foot soldiers her ardent supporters. How than can you control your children whom you use.Your hold over them will weaken. I have consistently maintained Bhabo's methods are wrong and I hold that but she loves her son deeply and you will see that Suraj's  pain alone will move her.
4.Her not blessing him on Hoi is a kind of punishment for his defiance. She is emphasising her point and making him conscious of the consequences of revolt. 
5.When ever you view Bhabo your sense of right and wrong will not apply to her. That is the first premise you have to start with.She is illiterate and knows only crude ways to put across her point.She will shout, scream not bless Suraj, anything which  will help her assert herself she will shamelessly use.That is an indisputable fact. I continue to maintain that if Suraj had used a different strategy Bhabo would have agreed with bhabasa prodding .Now also she will agree but will take time. Sorry Juna for using your thread for such lengthy discussions.
6.Her trying to keep her joint family intact with her hegemony by hook or crook also plays out.But to say she has no love for her son is being very unfair to her.


Edited by UMDU - 14 November 2012 at 3:57am

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ah99

ah99 Senior Member
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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 4:27am | IP Logged
Aunty, I never said she does not love her son. She does. Infact, Suraj is her favorite and she does not shy away from openly accepting this. I do not like that one bit and I feel that her partiality is the main reason why her other children turned out they way they did but thats another story and another discussion. My point is, she does love her son so much that she feels the urge to control her married, grown up son, who will be a parent himself soon. That being said, her behavior does suggest that her love for her principles and so called ideals and sanskaars (in my opinion wrong names given to her ego) is way more than that love for her child. I am not saying Bhabho is a bad person. I have always believed that people are not good or bad, their actions are. No person is purely white or black. Somewhere or sometime in their lives they have done things both right and wrong. Some people do more right than wrong, some otherwise. Some accept their flaws in public, most do not. 

The point that I have tried to convey in this post is not about all the other aspects, but I have tried to focus on only one point. That its not IPS that Bhabho is against. She is against her DILs education. She is very insecure that if Sandhya becomes independent she will stop respecting Suraj and other family members. In her defense, this has happened a lot. The minute a DIL becomes independent, her behavior changes. Even if the DILs are not independent themselves, they start showing their attitude even if their husband is the sole breadwinner or even the biggest contributor in the household. What irks me is that she is wise woman and in most cases, just. So why cant she clearly see that Sandhya is not such a person? Time and again Sandy has given trial by fire and each and every time she has proved her virtues and honesty. Even then Bhabho's insecurity is completely overshadowing her wisdom and is behaving in the most irrational way. If she were just crude, rude and brash it was OK. But she has now resorted to mind games and cunningness. That's a sore point. 


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UMDU

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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 4:55am | IP Logged
Don't worry beta she will change.It is a serial showing the fight to change the traditional structure.That can hardly show Bhabo passive and Sandhya becoming IPS in a week. They have to show resistance from traditional quarters to change and Bhabo here represents the conservative element. To bring modern ideas you have to give her a shock.Than she will respond. Unless that happens she will take time.I agree she does not want her beendani to study but if IPS had not been mentioned she would have been more amenable to listen atleast .IPS has put her off. IPS has made Bhabasa also anti Suraj.  The Rathi drama is basically a mother's extreme possessiveness towards her son and the inability of her son also to break away from his mother.

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