Madhubala - Ek Ishq Ek Junoon

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Madhubala - Ek Ishq Ek Junoon
Madhubala - Ek Ishq Ek Junoon

Episode 121 Discussion: 9th Nov 2012 (Page 9)

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Posted: 10 November 2012 at 12:32am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Soundarya22

Before signing off for the day (I  am not promising, I won't be back!!)...I'm going off on a tangent to provide some relief ...

Come on, break to banta hai, since we have a lot to discuss and a weekend without Madhubala... Found this song, and am dedicating it to Rishbala, ..hummable, apt lyrics, and one little thing in the chorus that made me think of themWink...am sure everyone on this forum will notice it and agree with me.

Enjoy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFTiwaR0go


if the link does'nt work...the song is' Tujhko jo paaya' from a movie called 'Crook'.

Soundarya,

@bold
Agree.  Apt lyrics for Rishbala. Although it seems more like RK singing  for Madhu as he is that expressive and resolved...though in his mind...unlike Emraan Haashmi in the song. Wink I feel the "Tujhko jo paaya, to jeena aaya" applies even for Madhu. 
Mere Bina Mein rahne laga hoon  - suits more on RK. LOL

Thank you. I had never heard the song before. Its nice.

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Posted: 10 November 2012 at 8:16am | IP Logged
I have a question for everyone here. We have been discussing physical attraction lately. So I was wondering how would you feel if the consumation came before a confession or even realization of love. Wouldn't it be progressive? I remember having this discussion with my friends from the Punar Vivah forum because the point of that show was to show realistic relationships and we discussed howler couples do consummate before completely falling in love. Consider historically most Indian couples don't even no each other before getting married than how do they make babies? We discussed how on Indian television consummation has been shown to the ultimate result of love as before love Indian leads are shown to be asexual beings but in reality physical relations can be a part of the process. It ended up happening in Punar Vivah and caused confusion between the leads since one of them still thought he loved his exwife and felt guilty for betraying her. Would you guys like to see something similar in Madhubala? I initially felt no in Punar Vivah but than I thought the way it was shown was more realistic than most other Indian television shows. My mom agreed with me strangely enough.

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Posted: 10 November 2012 at 9:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gurtiluv

I have a question for everyone here. We have been discussing physical attraction lately. So I was wondering how would you feel if the consumation came before a confession or even realization of love. Wouldn't it be progressive? I remember having this discussion with my friends from the Punar Vivah forum because the point of that show was to show realistic relationships and we discussed howler couples do consummate before completely falling in love. Consider historically most Indian couples don't even no each other before getting married than how do they make babies? We discussed how on Indian television consummation has been shown to the ultimate result of love as before love Indian leads are shown to be asexual beings but in reality physical relations can be a part of the process. It ended up happening in Punar Vivah and caused confusion between the leads since one of them still thought he loved his exwife and felt guilty for betraying her. Would you guys like to see something similar in Madhubala? I initially felt no in Punar Vivah but than I thought the way it was shown was more realistic than most other Indian television shows. My mom agreed with me strangely enough.

Sona.

@bold and underlined

Physical attraction and desire aid love making and is one of factors responsible for knowing true love. Once desire is consumed and satisfied, all that the individuals are left with is emotional attraction and dependence. If one is pleased on physical level, couple might influence each other to support each other other in functional expressions of their relationship outside the bedroom,,,as in interaction with rest of house-hold. If one is not pleased at physical level, no matter how good the relationship is outside bedroom, the stiffness within the bedroom makes the night unbearable. Its learning all the way, influence all the way. In arranged marriages, men and women have to deal with physical aspect before they can find love. TV nowadays is ruining the reality checks that we grow up with. If I had children, adolescents, honestly as a mother, I would not allow my children (sons and daughters) to watch these kind of regressive soaps. If they would see it anyways, I would make it a point to tell my children that what they see on TV is not real and what they can expect. Because I went through a turmoil in my arranged marriage, I wouldn't want my children to be that naive...

Its very unnatural the way TV shows that platonic love should happen and then physical love is permissible. Its actually the other way round, for both married and unmarried couples. While in case of married couples, they have the permit to indulge in love making as the Marriage ceremonies have specially poojas around consummation that accept it as another MUST ritual in marriage. The unmarried ones have to be careful to control their desires, but surely we all saw in films and also know in reality that some level of physical intimacy is shared.

And I am all for this. Therefore, each time RK and MB interact, I am distinctly studying for it. Because of limitations of Indian TV or prevailing formulas to present soap drama, the writers may not break away from TV soap conventions, but they can at least show us currents that make us identify with reality. 
In Punar Vivah. what they showed thru that consummation was natural, bound to happen, when Aarti was all ripe to fall into that state. But where they stuck to TV convention is making a baby also...just in one attempt. Now that is quite far-fetched, but just like films. Ek attempt mein unleash the days of drama...

I liked physical attraction etched very nicely in Balika Vadhu between Anandi and Jagayya, when they are adults enough and Jagya is high on his harmones and ready to explore that part with his wife. It was ULTIMATE REALITY on TV there. But again TV convention had to ruin that. Very plausibly the elders notice what is going between the two youngsters minds and take action. But still on TV, best kind to get that footage. Eventually the couple ends up having their intimate moments and scars the couple the way each marks that relationship as it could be deemed. For Jagya it was pleasing, love felt and yet a turmoil for him outside the bedroom as Anandi doesn't seem fit as a social partner. For Anandi, it becomes her everything, so much that it keeps her bound to Jagya even when Jagya leaves her.

Physical relation need not cement two individuals, but strangely enough, sufficient chemistry at physical level is enough to bind individuals into coming to each other, reckon either of them as a force that cannot be ignored.
In MEIEJ, also writers have kept true to this element and are playing with that a lot...like the waist holding drama, admiring bare back scenes, massage drama and now seduction imaginations...for the man it abundantly being showed...and the woman has all along responded in exactly the same manner as she is supposed to feel, knowing it, getting uncomfortable, shit-scared and nowadays enjoying little by little.  Alas we all, Bittujis and all kinds of interruptions will be there. Stern Smile

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Posted: 10 November 2012 at 9:23am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gurtiluv

I have a question for everyone here. We have been discussing physical attraction lately. So I was wondering how would you feel if the consumation came before a confession or even realization of love. Wouldn't it be progressive? I remember having this discussion with my friends from the Punar Vivah forum because the point of that show was to show realistic relationships and we discussed howler couples do consummate before completely falling in love. Consider historically most Indian couples don't even no each other before getting married than how do they make babies? We discussed how on Indian television consummation has been shown to the ultimate result of love as before love Indian leads are shown to be asexual beings but in reality physical relations can be a part of the process. It ended up happening in Punar Vivah and caused confusion between the leads since one of them still thought he loved his exwife and felt guilty for betraying her. Would you guys like to see something similar in Madhubala? I initially felt no in Punar Vivah but than I thought the way it was shown was more realistic than most other Indian television shows. My mom agreed with me strangely enough.

Yup, I wonder about that too. Consummation when the couple is so unsure and afraid to accept even to themselves that they are beginning to love each other, is it wise, or would it be a progression?? I have said this earlier, a scene like the katte nahin one would have led to consummation, I was strangely relieved it did'nt happen. In madhubala, I feel both of them need to sort out so many issues...madhu is still trapped in her own loyalties, RK is bound by his past. I feel the end result would be guilt on both sides, like you said happened in PV. 
On the other hand, physical attraction is a natural progression, they are sleeping on the same bed, both of them very attractive, they are even beginning to accept it, which is what we saw in the last romantic sequence, after the water scene. RK was making a move to go closer, and madhu was almost waiting for it when Bittuji walked in. 

I don't know, I somehow feel that char phera issue needs to be sorted out, they are bound by an unnatural bond, which weights down the relationship. Maybe the closure of the Shamsher issue is necessary ...for madhu to accept that human beings even her maalik,can veer between black and white and therefore it is ok to accept RK with grey shades...for RK to accept that he did make a huge mistake,  and that, it is fine to love Madhu unconditionally. I always wonder will they they consummate the relationship, while they are bound by a contract? 

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Posted: 10 November 2012 at 9:35am | IP Logged
Great points by both Soundarya and Shri! I just think television needs to get more progressive about showing physical attraction and not show that it is some type some sin to consummate before falling in love. But like Soundarya mentioned RK and Madhu still need figure out whether their friends or does and if their marriage is legit or a contract. But the fact that the Cvs are starting to show physical attraction without a love realization I think is very realistic for Indian tv. But than comes the question due to the circumstances they are in right now how would Madhu and RK feel about it afterwards?

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Posted: 10 November 2012 at 9:40am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gurtiluv

Great points by both Soundarya and Shri! I just think television needs to get more progressive about showing physical attraction and not show that it is some type some sin to consummate before falling in love. But like Soundarya mentioned RK and Madhu still need figure out whether their friends or does and if their marriage is legit or a contract. But the fact that the Cvs are starting to show physical attraction without a love realization I think is very realistic for Indian tv. But than comes the question due to the circumstances they are in right now how would Madhu and RK feel about it afterwards?


You know, your point reminds me of the recent IF interview with both of them, where VD calls it 'infatuation'...it seemed to me thatinfatuation is the brief given to them at this point..

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Posted: 10 November 2012 at 9:46am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Soundarya22

Originally posted by Gurtiluv

Great points by both Soundarya and Shri! I just think television needs to get more progressive about showing physical attraction and not show that it is some type some sin to consummate before falling in love. But like Soundarya mentioned RK and Madhu still need figure out whether their friends or does and if their marriage is legit or a contract. But the fact that the Cvs are starting to show physical attraction without a love realization I think is very realistic for Indian tv. But than comes the question due to the circumstances they are in right now how would Madhu and RK feel about it afterwards?


<font color="#990000" face="Comic Sans MS, Times, serif" size="2">You know, your point reminds me of the recent IF interview with both of them, where VD calls it 'infatuation'...it seemed to me thatinfatuation is the brief given to them at this point..</font>


That must mean the cvs also want physical attraction and then love to come in a very natural and realistic way.

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Posted: 10 November 2012 at 10:21am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gurtiluv

Great points by both Soundarya and Shri! I just think television needs to get more progressive about showing physical attraction and not show that it is some type some sin to consummate before falling in love. But like Soundarya mentioned RK and Madhu still need figure out whether their friends or does and if their marriage is legit or a contract. But the fact that the Cvs are starting to show physical attraction without a love realization I think is very realistic for Indian tv. But than comes the question due to the circumstances they are in right now how would Madhu and RK feel about it afterwards?


>>>>if their marriage is legit or a contract. 
The contract is between Shamsher and RK. RK tried to use money power in that, Shamsher retaliated with Physical power. Both have now called it quits. That's why Shanmsher's burying the gun was not a weighing thing for me. Between these two men, the point is not who is moral and amoral. The point was all Madhu. RK wanted to hurt Madhu by making that contract in that hospital that D dat (revenge act by RK at being blackmailed by Madhu with the photographs). Then point was for Shamsher to rescue Madhu out of that contract.
Both men gave closure to this contract in RK''s room and then in Chawl balcony. It was again for RK's word that Madhu should not get hurt in all of this, Shamsher takes it his responsibility to bury the gun.

The 4-phera marriage - Mock aspect - lambasted by Dipali, RK and Madhu
The society doesn't care whether it is 7 phera marriage or 4 phera marriage. everyone has accepted RK as Madu's husband and vice versa. Parents involved.
Then RK's party...though a humiliation for MB, still cemented the marriage in society's eyes. That night RK might have thought he insulted his wife, little did he know that he bound himself to her for life with that ignoble act. Because society that night harshly censured him for ridiculing their institutions and code of conduct. Radhaji became the spokeswoman for society that night he asked RK to atone for his mistake. And next morning we see before media, it as happening. That a couple may have fought in the night, have made up with each other again in the morning.
Closure to society's question.

RK and Madhu's -  weighing
RK telling Dipali ...even if 4-phera that woman is my wife
MB telling Dipali ...even if 4-phera, that man is my husband.
RK telling Padmini before eveyone - Saasuma, aajkal, Biwi aur main, ek doosre ka bahut khayal rakhte hain
RK telling Shamsher - Sati Savitri ban gayi woh mere liye
RK telling Shamsher - Apni Biwi ko 2 din ke liye chod ke jaa raha hoon, uska dil na todiye ga.
And above all - MB asking God for RK's life. Why because she unknowing claimed that much from RK when she stubbornly gave him options to tie mouli, eat modak etc etc. Making God as the context, MB exercised her right as RK's wife in full and RK allowed her to do it. The understanding conversation between the husband and wife takes place in the car. Listen to their dialogues devoid of drama and just about the equation they share, comfortably telling each other what they can seek of each other and where the line is drawn.

Pretty much ...these two have accepted that they are husband and wife. Just a lil strange one...remember ANOKHI KAHANI as said in promos.

How they cement this through festivals
The Ganeshotsav - public present...everyone accepting her as choti bahu
The Mata Rani pooja - Public present - everyone seeing them sitting for pooja
And now Karwachout and Diwali coming up... Whatever Dipali may try to slight about them RK and MB are going to make it all good again through this ceremony.

The marriage was always legit for RK. Always. Though he was never ready for loving his wife.
Hesitation about whether legit marriage became legit through contract for Madhu. That's when she sought Ganesha's help and decided to upgrade her to being RKs wife ...a formidable task, uphill task, scared to death ...she achieved it through her sheer determination and strength.
And she too didn't care for love aspect. All that legitimacy was to honor their hatred.

But Ganesha track, showed both of them, there is God's will too and not just their will. Things changed beyond their comprehension. And eventually they succumbed to it.

Now all they are trying to do is fight the hesitation to fall in love with each other.

So basically what I am saying is...why you girls don't see the marriage as legit yet;  when society, God has sanctioned it for them, they are following rituals and things have improved a lot since RK's near death experience. They both treat each other as hubby and wife.

Shed away reservations...definitions are too binding and limiting when for love and faith, all one needs to do it break away from definitions. That's how we love God. And that's what is Love.

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