Madhubala - Ek Ishq Ek Junoon

Episode 121 Discussion: 9th Nov 2012 - Page 7

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hansa22 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Before signing off for the day (I  am not promising, I won't be back!!)...I'm going off on a tangent to provide some relief ...

Come on, break to banta hai, since we have a lot to discuss and a weekend without Madhubala... Found this song, and am dedicating it to Rishbala, ..hummable, apt lyrics, and one little thing in the chorus that made me think of themπŸ˜‰...am sure everyone on this forum will notice it and agree with me.

Enjoy...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFTiwaR0go...


if the link does'nt work...the song is' Tujhko jo paaya' from a movie called 'Crook'.
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Posted: 11 years ago
Zoya,

Re Radhaji using MB and biding her time...Ditto here. I fear her, Coz she is a failure and wants to win. That's why I called her grey. She is not like Dips, because she is not an idiot like Dips to not see MB's power. Like Dips, Radhaji is no conceited fool or arrogant. She is just biding her time.  

Word it...what you said there...tevar kaise badlenge.

And re
>>> "Roothi hoon phir bhi main raazi"----------->I would like to know what you ppl think of it...

This I feel as MB wanting to be controlled by RK. 

Remember how I explained the twisting of the finger that day (7th Nov scene). When RK twists her finger and bends it down completely, Madhu is actually angry first. Even RK is like "mujhe dikhane chali ungli...but he's already feeling bad that she makes him do bad things. And both turn away from each other upset. But MB is first to relent and she starts smiling, Actually she wants to show more of her mirth. RK also wants to look at her. He catches her smile. Quite surprised. He relaxes, She too relaxes and both start laughing.

So they are upset together and happy together, inspite of how one controlled the other. RK doesn't like to control MB, but it is his need to be in control. Whereas MB doesn't have to fear challenging RK, she can do whatever she wants with him when she feels justified, and yet if RK changes her path or overpowers her, she doesn't mind that. She is happy even at that loss because she still will have the pleasure of challenging him and him feeling bad that he has to overpower her. MB has started to feel this way since she saw RK's caring side. So she knows, if she is hurt, he is gonna be hurt too. So ki farak painda hai, kaun haara kaun jeeta.

That's why, it will be "Roothi hoon phir bhi main raazi" for MB.


EnchantedForest thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Shri, that was brilliant analysis. I was just trying figure out Shamsher by relating to him as a father. But the physical defeat he experienced the first time due to RK was like a huge insult to his manhood. This is the same shamsher who could take on many goons at once but got defeated to RK's power. I wonder if he really thought RK was talking of a sexual relationship. hHHmm... I thought the way RK humiliated Madhu through the media was enough for any father to lose their marbles but the forceful marriage with the thought of sexual relations does add fire to the fuel. Very well analyzed.
zoya_naziya thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by: 0-SD-0

Zoya,

And re
>>> "Roothi hoon phir bhi main raazi"----------->I would like to know what you ppl think of it...

This I feel as MB wanting to be controlled by RK. 

Remember how I explained the twisting of the finger that day (7th Nov scene). When RK twists her finger and bends it down completely, Madhu is actually angry first. Even RK is like "mujhe dikhane chali ungli...but he's already feeling bad that she makes him do bad things. And both turn away from each other upset. But MB is first to relent and she starts smiling, Actually she wants to show more of her mirth. RK also wants to look at her. He catches her smile. Quite surprised. He relaxes, She too relaxes and both start laughing.

So they are upset together and happy together, inspite of how one controlled the other. RK doesn't like to control MB, but it is his need to be in control. Whereas MB doesn't have to fear challenging RK, she can do whatever she wants with him when she feels justified, and yet if RK changes her path or overpowers her, she doesn't mind that. She is happy even at that loss because she still will have the pleasure of challenging him and him feeling bad that he has to overpower her. MB has started to feel this way since she saw RK's caring side. So she knows, if she is hurt, he is gonna be hurt too. So ki farak painda hai, kaun haara kaun jeeta.

That's why, it will be "Roothi hoon phir bhi main raazi" for MB.


What you say makes a lot more sense... Nah! you are actually right... The more i think of it this way, the more i feel better about this line:) 

@Shamsher: Great analysis and you people have touched upon  all the plausible aspects.πŸ‘
Edited by zoya_naziya - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by: Soundarya22

Before signing off for the day (I  am not promising, I won't be back!!)...I'm going off on a tangent to provide some relief ...

Come on, break to banta hai, since we have a lot to discuss and a weekend without Madhubala... Found this song, and am dedicating it to Rishbala, ..hummable, apt lyrics, and one little thing in the chorus that made me think of themπŸ˜‰...am sure everyone on this forum will notice it and agree with me.

Enjoy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFTiwaR0go


if the link does'nt work...the song is' Tujhko jo paaya' from a movie called 'Crook'.


Soundarya,

@bold
Agree.  Apt lyrics for Rishbala. Although it seems more like RK singing  for Madhu as he is that expressive and resolved...though in his mind...unlike Emraan Haashmi in the song. πŸ˜‰ I feel the "Tujhko jo paaya, to jeena aaya" applies even for Madhu. 
Mere Bina Mein rahne laga hoon  - suits more on RK. πŸ˜†

Thank you. I had never heard the song before. Its nice.
EnchantedForest thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
I have a question for everyone here. We have been discussing physical attraction lately. So I was wondering how would you feel if the consumation came before a confession or even realization of love. Wouldn't it be progressive? I remember having this discussion with my friends from the Punar Vivah forum because the point of that show was to show realistic relationships and we discussed howler couples do consummate before completely falling in love. Consider historically most Indian couples don't even no each other before getting married than how do they make babies? We discussed how on Indian television consummation has been shown to the ultimate result of love as before love Indian leads are shown to be asexual beings but in reality physical relations can be a part of the process. It ended up happening in Punar Vivah and caused confusion between the leads since one of them still thought he loved his exwife and felt guilty for betraying her. Would you guys like to see something similar in Madhubala? I initially felt no in Punar Vivah but than I thought the way it was shown was more realistic than most other Indian television shows. My mom agreed with me strangely enough.
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Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by: Gurtiluv

I have a question for everyone here. We have been discussing physical attraction lately. So I was wondering how would you feel if the consumation came before a confession or even realization of love. Wouldn't it be progressive? I remember having this discussion with my friends from the Punar Vivah forum because the point of that show was to show realistic relationships and we discussed howler couples do consummate before completely falling in love. Consider historically most Indian couples don't even no each other before getting married than how do they make babies? We discussed how on Indian television consummation has been shown to the ultimate result of love as before love Indian leads are shown to be asexual beings but in reality physical relations can be a part of the process. It ended up happening in Punar Vivah and caused confusion between the leads since one of them still thought he loved his exwife and felt guilty for betraying her. Would you guys like to see something similar in Madhubala? I initially felt no in Punar Vivah but than I thought the way it was shown was more realistic than most other Indian television shows. My mom agreed with me strangely enough.


Sona.

@bold and underlined

Physical attraction and desire aid love making and is one of factors responsible for knowing true love. Once desire is consumed and satisfied, all that the individuals are left with is emotional attraction and dependence. If one is pleased on physical level, couple might influence each other to support each other other in functional expressions of their relationship outside the bedroom,,,as in interaction with rest of house-hold. If one is not pleased at physical level, no matter how good the relationship is outside bedroom, the stiffness within the bedroom makes the night unbearable. Its learning all the way, influence all the way. In arranged marriages, men and women have to deal with physical aspect before they can find love. TV nowadays is ruining the reality checks that we grow up with. If I had children, adolescents, honestly as a mother, I would not allow my children (sons and daughters) to watch these kind of regressive soaps. If they would see it anyways, I would make it a point to tell my children that what they see on TV is not real and what they can expect. Because I went through a turmoil in my arranged marriage, I wouldn't want my children to be that naive...

Its very unnatural the way TV shows that platonic love should happen and then physical love is permissible. Its actually the other way round, for both married and unmarried couples. While in case of married couples, they have the permit to indulge in love making as the Marriage ceremonies have specially poojas around consummation that accept it as another MUST ritual in marriage. The unmarried ones have to be careful to control their desires, but surely we all saw in films and also know in reality that some level of physical intimacy is shared.

And I am all for this. Therefore, each time RK and MB interact, I am distinctly studying for it. Because of limitations of Indian TV or prevailing formulas to present soap drama, the writers may not break away from TV soap conventions, but they can at least show us currents that make us identify with reality. 
In Punar Vivah. what they showed thru that consummation was natural, bound to happen, when Aarti was all ripe to fall into that state. But where they stuck to TV convention is making a baby also...just in one attempt. Now that is quite far-fetched, but just like films. Ek attempt mein unleash the days of drama...

I liked physical attraction etched very nicely in Balika Vadhu between Anandi and Jagayya, when they are adults enough and Jagya is high on his harmones and ready to explore that part with his wife. It was ULTIMATE REALITY on TV there. But again TV convention had to ruin that. Very plausibly the elders notice what is going between the two youngsters minds and take action. But still on TV, best kind to get that footage. Eventually the couple ends up having their intimate moments and scars the couple the way each marks that relationship as it could be deemed. For Jagya it was pleasing, love felt and yet a turmoil for him outside the bedroom as Anandi doesn't seem fit as a social partner. For Anandi, it becomes her everything, so much that it keeps her bound to Jagya even when Jagya leaves her.

Physical relation need not cement two individuals, but strangely enough, sufficient chemistry at physical level is enough to bind individuals into coming to each other, reckon either of them as a force that cannot be ignored.
In MEIEJ, also writers have kept true to this element and are playing with that a lot...like the waist holding drama, admiring bare back scenes, massage drama and now seduction imaginations...for the man it abundantly being showed...and the woman has all along responded in exactly the same manner as she is supposed to feel, knowing it, getting uncomfortable, shit-scared and nowadays enjoying little by little.  Alas we all, Bittujis and all kinds of interruptions will be there. πŸ˜³
hansa22 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by: Gurtiluv

I have a question for everyone here. We have been discussing physical attraction lately. So I was wondering how would you feel if the consumation came before a confession or even realization of love. Wouldn't it be progressive? I remember having this discussion with my friends from the Punar Vivah forum because the point of that show was to show realistic relationships and we discussed howler couples do consummate before completely falling in love. Consider historically most Indian couples don't even no each other before getting married than how do they make babies? We discussed how on Indian television consummation has been shown to the ultimate result of love as before love Indian leads are shown to be asexual beings but in reality physical relations can be a part of the process. It ended up happening in Punar Vivah and caused confusion between the leads since one of them still thought he loved his exwife and felt guilty for betraying her. Would you guys like to see something similar in Madhubala? I initially felt no in Punar Vivah but than I thought the way it was shown was more realistic than most other Indian television shows. My mom agreed with me strangely enough.


Yup, I wonder about that too. Consummation when the couple is so unsure and afraid to accept even to themselves that they are beginning to love each other, is it wise, or would it be a progression?? I have said this earlier, a scene like the katte nahin one would have led to consummation, I was strangely relieved it did'nt happen. In madhubala, I feel both of them need to sort out so many issues...madhu is still trapped in her own loyalties, RK is bound by his past. I feel the end result would be guilt on both sides, like you said happened in PV. 
On the other hand, physical attraction is a natural progression, they are sleeping on the same bed, both of them very attractive, they are even beginning to accept it, which is what we saw in the last romantic sequence, after the water scene. RK was making a move to go closer, and madhu was almost waiting for it when Bittuji walked in. 

I don't know, I somehow feel that char phera issue needs to be sorted out, they are bound by an unnatural bond, which weights down the relationship. Maybe the closure of the Shamsher issue is necessary ...for madhu to accept that human beings even her maalik,can veer between black and white and therefore it is ok to accept RK with grey shades...for RK to accept that he did make a huge mistake,  and that, it is fine to love Madhu unconditionally. I always wonder will they they consummate the relationship, while they are bound by a contract? 

EnchantedForest thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Great points by both Soundarya and Shri! I just think television needs to get more progressive about showing physical attraction and not show that it is some type some sin to consummate before falling in love. But like Soundarya mentioned RK and Madhu still need figure out whether their friends or does and if their marriage is legit or a contract. But the fact that the Cvs are starting to show physical attraction without a love realization I think is very realistic for Indian tv. But than comes the question due to the circumstances they are in right now how would Madhu and RK feel about it afterwards?
hansa22 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Originally posted by: Gurtiluv

Great points by both Soundarya and Shri! I just think television needs to get more progressive about showing physical attraction and not show that it is some type some sin to consummate before falling in love. But like Soundarya mentioned RK and Madhu still need figure out whether their friends or does and if their marriage is legit or a contract. But the fact that the Cvs are starting to show physical attraction without a love realization I think is very realistic for Indian tv. But than comes the question due to the circumstances they are in right now how would Madhu and RK feel about it afterwards?



You know, your point reminds me of the recent IF interview with both of them, where VD calls it 'infatuation'...it seemed to me thatinfatuation is the brief given to them at this point..