Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che!

India-Forums

   
Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che!
Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che!

Lajja = Modesty = Women ?? (Page 48)

-Chandramukhi- IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 21 October 2004
Posts: 12524

Posted: 14 November 2012 at 5:37pm | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

The following 3 member(s) liked the above post:

znursinghEl_Doradonishu786

Gnarly_Quinn Senior Member
Gnarly_Quinn
Gnarly_Quinn

Joined: 20 June 2010
Posts: 874

Posted: 14 November 2012 at 8:50pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by akash08


I had a friend in hostel who is Khasi which is a matrilineal society. I asked him in detail how in their society men and women behave. Despite having the highest level of women empowerment in that community some basic facts never change even there - like men being responsible for the protection of the family etc. There are some facts too basic to change by a movement.



I'd decided not to post in this thread anymore as it is pretty apparent that this debate had reached an impasse. but then, i saw this post of yours and again my hands itched to type a reply, mainly because this case of khasi matriliny is something I read about at length in  school.

the khasis are a warrior tribe and since ancient days have been involved in many inter-tribe wars. since it was the custom for the male members of a family to fight in such conflicts, it was no wonder that there was a substantial lack of men in the khasi villages. protecting the economy and family, hence, became a responsibility for the khasi women. also, because of the insecurity born out of such situations, where men lost their lives almost on a daily basis, the name of the mother somewhat replaced the name of the (absent) father. as you can see, it was no generosity of the khasi male society that gave birth to this matriliny, rather it was born out of a necessity. now,since men were always seen as the protector of the villages, even in the matriliny that didn't change. so now, women were left with the burden of carrying her whole family on her shoulders, and yet not having any say in any sort of decision making body whatsoever.

if you are interested in knowing more about this paradoxical situation, you'll find many articles online, i'm sure. the most analytical one is written by Esther Syiem in Khasi matrilineal society: The paradox within.

it is this latent patriarchy present in almost every society that the 'feminist' lashes out at. it might seem farfetched, but that is only because we are taught to look at everything through the prism of patriarchy.

The following 6 member(s) liked the above post:

znursinghEl_Dorado-Cruiser--Chandramukhi-return_to_hadesLeadNitrate

return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
return_to_hades
return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 23933

Posted: 14 November 2012 at 9:10pm | IP Logged
@Chandra - Chill!

I know Cruiser won't take things personally and hold grudges. He's a relaxed, fun loving guy. All of us will probably laugh together in another thread. I've not interacted that much with Guess_who but he also seems a reasonable guy. I've found myself agreeing with many of his posts and we'll probably share opinions elsewhere.

Most regulars know that it is just a debate and we'll move on. Try not to get worked up by other comments. Smile

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

znursingh-Chandramukhi-

-Chandramukhi- IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 21 October 2004
Posts: 12524

Posted: 14 November 2012 at 9:18pm | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

znursingh

-Cruiser- IF-Sizzlerz
-Cruiser-
-Cruiser-

Joined: 23 November 2011
Posts: 21614

Posted: 14 November 2012 at 11:28pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Le sigh. I'm sorry folks for dragging this further.

 

@Cruiser

 

You still don't get it at all.

 

First and foremost, screw Siddhu, screw Sapna, screw Big Boss, screw reality television, they be damned and I couldn't care less. The discussion may have started over an altercation between Siddhu and Sapna on Big Boss. But other than that they are all irrelevant to the central issue on hand here.  So let's just toss them aside. The real issue is being trivialized by people trying to defend/trash irrelevant celebrities.

 

The central issue raised by Chandramukhi is the unfairness of gender stereotypes, specifically gender stereotypes related to women.

 

Secondly, this definitely is not about specific words. I don't give a damn if chastizements are in shudh Hindi or flawless Klingon. One could be speaking Greek for I could care. And which rational human could take modesty, humility, politeness, manners to be a bad thing. It is not the words, but the context, intent and content.

 

Two black friends meet at the bar and fist pump each other saying "What up Nigger?"

A white shopkeeper does not want black people in his store and says  "Nigger Keep Out!"

 

The exact same words can have radically different meanings depending on who says it, on which situation, how and why. Focusing on just words, while ignoring everything else makes the words themselves lose meaning. The friends are not being racist to each other and a shopkeeper is not greeting his buddy. Similarly telling a woman "lajja aurat ka gehna hai" does not always have the same meaning as chiding a man "kya tujhme lajja nahin hai?".

 

So let us evaluate situations focusing on context and intent.

 

A woman is upset and retaliates by arguing in a loud impolite and crude manner. The woman is chided and criticized for reacting in such a way. She is told things like "That was unladylike to be impolite" "Modesty is a woman's ornament" "A lady shouldn't behave so crudely".

 

A man is upset and retaliates by arguing in a loud impolite and crude manner. The man is chided and criticized for reacting in such a way. He is told things like "That was impolite" "You should have been more modest" "You should have not been so crude".

 

Both situations use words like impolite, modest and crude. However, the context and intent of those words is different. The man is simply criticized for misbehavior, but for the woman her gender is brought into play. That is an unfair gender stereotype. The fact is we are all humans. All humans have different tolerance levels and different reactions to being upset. These things are not dictated by gender but by temperament and personality. Many men are very polite and restrained. They rarely raise their voice or get mad. Many women are loud and irritable. They frequently get angry, lose their tempers and raise their voice. But it is desirable for all people to try and be restrained. Not just women or men. Women and men who lose their tempers, get loud and crude ' should be criticized for misbehavior and not around gender.

 

Let us look at gender stereotypes about men

 

A man is hurt by things said in an argument and breaks down into tears. He is told things like "Be a man" "Boys don't cry" "Why are you crying like a woman"

 

A woman is hurt by things said in an argument and breaks down into tears. She is told things like "Be strong" "Please don't cry!" "Why are you crying over someone stupid"

 

Both situations are trying to pass on the message of stop crying or there is no reason to cry. However, the context and intent of the words are different. The woman is simply being consoled not to cry, but for the man his gender is brought into play. That is also an unfair gender stereotype. Emotions and sensitivity are not dictated by gender. Many women can be tough and resilient. They will rarely cry or show emotions. Many men are sensitive with fragile egos. They get hurt easily and show their feelings. Neither is more or less of a man/woman for how they process their feelings. They should be consoled/criticized based on the situation and not their gender.

 

There is a serious problem if we cannot accept the fact that statements like "Modesty is a woman's ornament" or "Boys don't cry" are a gender stereotype that should be discouraged. We probably don't know if they would say the exact same thing to the opposite gender. However, we  still ought to stand up and say "This is not about gender, don't bring up gender" because gender is indeed unfairly brought up in these statements. And just because someone made one sexist or misogynist or politically incorrect statement does not make them a bad person or villain. It happens. Each and everyone of us does it sometime or another. Society has conditioned us in a way that we often blurt out many racist, misogynist, xenophobic, homophobic and other forms of inappropriate statements in normal flow of conversations.  Sometimes we don't even know there is a problem with what we said. But we shouldn't ignore the problem or defend the problem because that's the way it is. The ethical thing to do is pointing out the problems and trying to change things because society a as a whole will be better for it.



R_T_H Ji,

The above post of yours, without any hesitation, I would rate as the Post of This Thread! Clap

I get everything that you say, appreciate your line of reasoning and the point you are making!SmileSmile

I do have my own takes on quite a few things, but for the time being, I would prefer to take a back seat and enjoy various takes on this topic! At this point, nothing much to add from my side...
Smile

The following 4 member(s) liked the above post:

bhoomi25znursingh-Chandramukhi-return_to_hades

arcoiris Goldie
arcoiris
arcoiris

Joined: 05 November 2009
Posts: 1254

Posted: 15 November 2012 at 12:58am | IP Logged
@ return_to_hades simply awesome postClap. Completely agree with @ Cruiserji. Very well written and elaborated with appropriate instances.


Edited by saloni111 - 15 November 2012 at 12:57am

The following 2 member(s) liked the above post:

-Chandramukhi-return_to_hades

znursingh IF-Dazzler

Joined: 15 October 2010
Posts: 3395

Posted: 15 November 2012 at 2:30am | IP Logged
THE ACCOUNT OF THE MEMBER WHO POSTED THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY BANNED.

If you think this is an error please Contact us.

The following 3 member(s) liked the above post:

bhoomi25-Chandramukhi-return_to_hades

return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
return_to_hades
return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 23933

Posted: 15 November 2012 at 9:03am | IP Logged

Thanks Cruiser, Saloni and Znur.

 

@Znur – Haha! That is an interesting take on my ID. I've never had someone tell me that about my ID.

 

The idea behind my ID is really dorky. It is based on the Greek myth of Hades and Persephone. Persephone has to "return to Hades" for six months every winter. "Return to Hades" is essential to the cycle of seasons and life.

 

Although telling people to "Go to Hell" seems a lot more fun. LOL

The following 3 member(s) liked the above post:

arcoirisznursingh-Cruiser-

Go to top

Forum Quick Jump

Forum Category / Channels
Forums

Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che! Topic Index

  • Please login to check your Last 10 Topics posted

Check these Celebrity also

Disclaimer: All Logos and Pictures of various Channels, Shows, Artistes, Media Houses, Companies, Brands etc. belong to their respective owners, and are used to merely visually identify the Channels, Shows, Companies, Brands, etc. to the viewer. Incase of any issue please contact the webmaster.

Popular Channels :
Star Plus | Zee TV | Sony TV | Colors TV | SAB TV | Life OK

Quick Links :
Top 100 TV Celebrities | Top 100 Bollywood Celebs | About Us | Contact Us | Advertise | Forum Index