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Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che!
Bigg Boss Season 6 : Alag Che!

Lajja = Modesty = Women ?? (Page 46)

znursingh IF-Dazzler

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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 4:11am | IP Logged
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-Chandramukhi--Cruiser-

-Cruiser- IF-Sizzlerz
-Cruiser-
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Posts: 21614

Posted: 14 November 2012 at 5:19am | IP Logged
Originally posted by znursingh

[QUOTE=cruiser51]


When some one like you or R_T_H compliments some one for lucidity its not just a compliment...its something to dance about till one collapses, tired and breathless! Seriously!DancingI will take it that you are not being facetious...Thank you!

I used to have this attitude of doing something only once I got convinced that it indeed was useful! Believe it or not Maam, I never understood why one should study Grammar! I NEVER studied (paid attention to) English grammar! If you ask me to point out whats the adverb and whats the adjective in a sentence, I will probably end up pointing out pronouns in the sentence! It is that bad!Blushing
Everybody in the Indian School System studies grammar! look at your felicity with parts of speech!! You sub consciously imbibe it! 
If I can compose sentences correctly, I swear it is because of my real Gurus, Sidney Sheldon, Alistair McLean, Robert Ludlum, James Hadley Chase, Frederick Forsyth etc. who I started reading from Grade VIth I remember.LOL
OMG! Yu were reading SS and JHC at the age of TEN? Hmmm!!

I have nothing more really to add to my supposedly regressive views on the topic and I am bowing out of it...respects to all contributors on this one...great job Chandru!!
Clap
####Not so fast!! NO ONE used the term regressive views here,did they? AND don't behave like a petulant child,young man! Muttering.".if you don't agree with me...um...I'll leave!!" Its been an absolute riot jousting with you,so PLEASE DON'T LEAVE-at least not in a huff!!!!


Zn Ji...aap bhi naa...Smile

@RED BOLD: Have no choice but to respond!LOL

1. Yes, dad was posted at Calcutta (now Kolkata) and Defence Unit's Library used to be a great escape point. Thats where I mugged up these authors apart from my Hindi favorite, Premchand whose all classics like Godaan, Karmbhoomi, Seva Sadan and 12 huge volumes of Mansarovar, collection of all his short stories I devoured.

As my ill luck would have it, I had managed to stumble upon Mills & Boon series as well,Confused---- so net result of a tender mind and confusing inputs into it, resulted me in what I thought to be the purest love of all times, for my English teacher in 7th grade.Embarrassed--------------- She would speak, I won't hear a thing and watch her beautiful lips moving, till a merciless chalk hit would wake me up.Confused ...Insensitive lady, went on a leave for one week and returned with a kilogram of Sindoor between the parting of her beautiful Bong hair and a 2 kg weight Mangal sutra!Cry...Years later I discovered Shahrukh Khan underwent exactly the same feelings and emotions in movie DARR that I had experienced, years ago then, and then I realised Movies are nothing but a reflection of life and realities!Ermm

2.  Yes, one friend did call my views regressive and going by overwhelming majority on this thread, they indeed seem to be!Tongue

3. Bas maam...ab kucchh mat kehna / poochhna! Winning a debating point on a forum like this one isn't worth ruffling feathers of some dear friends here...I should better stick to no holds barred fun threads where fans of all contestants land together like birds of various feathers flocking together at Bharatpur Bird Sanctuary!
Star


Edited by cruiser51 - 14 November 2012 at 9:28pm

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ChillHumznursinghEl_Dorado-Chandramukhi-

znursingh IF-Dazzler

Joined: 15 October 2010
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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 5:54am | IP Logged
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-Chandramukhi--Cruiser-

*king* IF-Dazzler
*king*
*king*

Joined: 19 July 2008
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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 6:40am | IP Logged
Originally posted by znursingh




@ Cruiser-

Let us open a thread that bashes ALL the contestants EQUALLY!!
Call it The Clubbers?!
You WANT the Gender-Sensitives to jump on you again?Using Bharatpur,Birds and/or Bird watching on THIS thread is dangerous to your equanimity!! 
Aap bhi na, Cruiser!!
 
I think there is a thread by Roshan called Phaddebaaz thread or something like that. Where u can take out your bhadaas on anything and everything
 
*king*

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znursingh-Cruiser--Chandramukhi-

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Joined: 23 November 2011
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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 8:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ranjanruna

What ?that regressive might not be indicating of mine. U thrash my view i thash as regressive. Atleast we can do some fun or else what is the fun to agree with each other opinion. I realised i used some unnecessary words ,sorry for that. U r a great debater and a discusion cant be complete without difference in opinion. Infact it is delightful to read ur views and fun posts.


Arey naheen bhaai...I referred to your verdict as a friend's opinion naa? Smile

I am not really into debates...just some fun posts and a few observations here and there!

As far as this thread topic is concerned, I have already elaborated my take on it and my honest opinion on the comment, context, implications of the same and my inference and understanding! Nothing more to offer really!

Cheers!
Tongue


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ChillHum-Chandramukhi-

-Cruiser- IF-Sizzlerz
-Cruiser-
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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 8:18am | IP Logged
Originally posted by znursingh




@ Cruiser-

Let us open a thread that bashes ALL the contestants EQUALLY!!
Call it The Clubbers?!
You WANT the Gender-Sensitives to jump on you again?Using Bharatpur,Birds and/or Bird watching on THIS thread is dangerous to your equanimity!! 
Aap bhi na, Cruiser!!


Haha Zoya Ji...that would be awesome but surely get polarized into predictable groupings yet again!Confused

In fact I was thinking of coming up with a fun post where many IF regulars feature and who claps for whom, but then, some will see red...so dropped idea! As they say...one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter!LOL

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ChillHumznursingh-Chandramukhi-

return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
return_to_hades
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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 8:40am | IP Logged

Le sigh. I'm sorry folks for dragging this further.

 

@Cruiser

 

You still don't get it at all.

 

First and foremost, screw Siddhu, screw Sapna, screw Big Boss, screw reality television, they be damned and I couldn't care less. The discussion may have started over an altercation between Siddhu and Sapna on Big Boss. But other than that they are all irrelevant to the central issue on hand here.  So let's just toss them aside. The real issue is being trivialized by people trying to defend/trash irrelevant celebrities.

 

The central issue raised by Chandramukhi is the unfairness of gender stereotypes, specifically gender stereotypes related to women.

 

Secondly, this definitely is not about specific words. I don't give a damn if chastizements are in shudh Hindi or flawless Klingon. One could be speaking Greek for I could care. And which rational human could take modesty, humility, politeness, manners to be a bad thing. It is not the words, but the context, intent and content.

 

Two black friends meet at the bar and fist pump each other saying "What up Nigger?"

A white shopkeeper does not want black people in his store and says  "Nigger Keep Out!"

 

The exact same words can have radically different meanings depending on who says it, on which situation, how and why. Focusing on just words, while ignoring everything else makes the words themselves lose meaning. The friends are not being racist to each other and a shopkeeper is not greeting his buddy. Similarly telling a woman "lajja aurat ka gehna hai" does not always have the same meaning as chiding a man "kya tujhme lajja nahin hai?".

 

So let us evaluate situations focusing on context and intent.

 

A woman is upset and retaliates by arguing in a loud impolite and crude manner. The woman is chided and criticized for reacting in such a way. She is told things like "That was unladylike to be impolite" "Modesty is a woman's ornament" "A lady shouldn't behave so crudely".

 

A man is upset and retaliates by arguing in a loud impolite and crude manner. The man is chided and criticized for reacting in such a way. He is told things like "That was impolite" "You should have been more modest" "You should have not been so crude".

 

Both situations use words like impolite, modest and crude. However, the context and intent of those words is different. The man is simply criticized for misbehavior, but for the woman her gender is brought into play. That is an unfair gender stereotype. The fact is we are all humans. All humans have different tolerance levels and different reactions to being upset. These things are not dictated by gender but by temperament and personality. Many men are very polite and restrained. They rarely raise their voice or get mad. Many women are loud and irritable. They frequently get angry, lose their tempers and raise their voice. But it is desirable for all people to try and be restrained. Not just women or men. Women and men who lose their tempers, get loud and crude – should be criticized for misbehavior and not around gender.

 

Let us look at gender stereotypes about men

 

A man is hurt by things said in an argument and breaks down into tears. He is told things like "Be a man" "Boys don't cry" "Why are you crying like a woman"

 

A woman is hurt by things said in an argument and breaks down into tears. She is told things like "Be strong" "Please don't cry!" "Why are you crying over someone stupid"

 

Both situations are trying to pass on the message of stop crying or there is no reason to cry. However, the context and intent of the words are different. The woman is simply being consoled not to cry, but for the man his gender is brought into play. That is also an unfair gender stereotype. Emotions and sensitivity are not dictated by gender. Many women can be tough and resilient. They will rarely cry or show emotions. Many men are sensitive with fragile egos. They get hurt easily and show their feelings. Neither is more or less of a man/woman for how they process their feelings. They should be consoled/criticized based on the situation and not their gender.

 

There is a serious problem if we cannot accept the fact that statements like "Modesty is a woman's ornament" or "Boys don't cry" are a gender stereotype that should be discouraged. We probably don't know if they would say the exact same thing to the opposite gender. However, we  still ought to stand up and say "This is not about gender, don't bring up gender" because gender is indeed unfairly brought up in these statements. And just because someone made one sexist or misogynist or politically incorrect statement does not make them a bad person or villain. It happens. Each and everyone of us does it sometime or another. Society has conditioned us in a way that we often blurt out many racist, misogynist, xenophobic, homophobic and other forms of inappropriate statements in normal flow of conversations.  Sometimes we don't even know there is a problem with what we said. But we shouldn't ignore the problem or defend the problem because that's the way it is. The ethical thing to do is pointing out the problems and trying to change things because society a as a whole will be better for it.

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bhoomi25arcoirismusic_mastiznursinghEl_Doradocs-07-Cruiser-LeadNitrate-Chandramukhi-

akash08 IF-Dazzler
akash08
akash08

Joined: 31 August 2008
Posts: 3445

Posted: 14 November 2012 at 10:16am | IP Logged
Originally posted by -Chandramukhi-

[QUOTE=akash08] I am not sure if being shy has anything to do with female gender. I have seen guys who are just as shy. Thus, it is the perception of the society which has drilled our minds that girls are supposed to be shy. 

But who decides what is the "typical behavior of majority of women", again it is the society. 


Chandramukhi,

This thought process is exactly what I mean by trying to defy the fact and proving with force that men =women. None denies that there are male who are more shy than female but it is the majority that counts. Time and again I have seen feminist movement picking up on a small minority example and trying to prove something but we all know exceptions always exist. Just because Mary Kom can defeat me in boxing any day or Karnam Malleswari can lift more weight than me or P T Usha could run faster than me - does not prove an average woman is physically stronger than an average man .

So, no - it is not the society that decides - society simply forms its opinion gathering facts from majority behaviour whereas people who do not accept it always pick examples of a handful exceptions.


I had a friend in hostel who is Khasi which is a matrilineal society. I asked him in detail how in their society men and women behave. Despite having the highest level of women empowerment in that community some basic facts never change even there - like men being responsible for the protection of the family etc. There are some facts too basic to change by a movement.



Edited by akash08 - 14 November 2012 at 10:27am

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